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Father's Rights - Unborn Child

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What is the name of your state? Wa
My son is 21 years old. His ex-girlfriend is 23. They dated for 7 months, she ended up pregnant and now does not want anything to do with him. As all of these situations are complicated, this one is too.

I will try to explain what I think is in her mind based on events that have occurred in recent months. I am not saying that I believe all or any of it, only what I "think" is going on in her mind. She is a christian girl that must hold up her reputation at her church. Her issue is that she was a virgin before meeting my son (at 23) and he coerced her into having sex with him within 3 weeks of meeting and continuing for the entire 7 month dating period. She has always wanted to "give herself" to her husband and now that she is pregnant, she will not be able to do that. (Sounds crazy, I know)
My son talked her out of an abortion. She went from an abortion to giving the baby up for adoption to now. She currently is saing that she will raise the baby, but my son is not to have anything to do with the baby. "The baby", she says, "will be raised in a real christian home" (unlike ours, I suppose?) When asking fr basic information such as a due date, my son is told to contact her pastor. There have been two failed meetings with this pastor. The first was about the pastor being sure my son understood that he was a thief (for stealing her virginity) and a thief is not worthy of raising a child. He also encouraged my son to consider adoption. It's no surprise that he has a pastor-friend that he would like to see receive the baby. The second meeting had the pastor telling my son that he was disappointed that my son was at the meeting with "motives". The "motives" were actually "purposes", in my opinion. My son is trying to respect her wishes for no contact except through the pastor. I beleive he should not contact this "nut" (the pastor) again. But how does he get his basic information? Or does he? He would like to know a due date. He would like to be at the hospital when the baby is due. He would like a custody & visitation agreement. When and how would he begin to demand these things? Or could he?

Thank you for any help offered.
 


stealth2

Under the Radar Member
He can start filing for paternity and then custody/visitation once the child is born.

"will be raised in a real christian home" (unlike ours, I suppose?)
Well, in light of

he coerced her into having sex with him within 3 weeks of meeting
I'd have to say you shouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't consider your home to be a "real Christian one".
 
Does that mean that he cannot do anything to legally gain this information BEFORE the child is born?

You wrote: I'd have to say you shouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't consider your home to be a "real Christian one".

I am not surprised, but I do know the difference between a christian and non-christian and that is what makes her or her pastors words surprising to me. Let's not forget that she was there too. Does that make her not a "real" christian and unable to provide a "real" christian home? No, it does not. And it does not make my son's home not a "real" christian home either.

Again, I am not surprised though.

Thank you for your help :)
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Until the child is born, your son has no rights at all.

And while yes, she was also there, that your son "coerced" her implies a bit more than a mutually acceptable relationship. Or do you not mind that your son is, by your own words, a rapist?
 
Huh? Of course I would mind if anyone was a rapist. As I stated in my original post, these are her words, not mine. Also, could anyone really believe that she was raped for seven months? You seem upset at my post. Or am I reading you wrong? Let me know. I am not interested in starting out on the wrong foot here.

Thanks
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
UnbornChild said:
Huh? Of course I would mind if anyone was a rapist. As I stated in my original post, these are her words, not mine. Also, could anyone really believe that she was raped for seven months? You seem upset at my post. Or am I reading you wrong? Let me know. I am not interested in starting out on the wrong foot here.

Thanks
Nope, not upset with you personally. Just astounded at some of the posts today. And truly fed up with people who think it's just peachy to create kids while having no commitment to one another. Families do split up. But why the hell people think it's brilliant to create families that are already split is beyond me. The kids are the ones who suffer while their so-called parents squabble.
 
>>The kids are the ones who suffer while their so-called parents squabble.
<<

You are so correct. And I too am astounded at the lack of commitment from people. On a more selfish note, I am also so saddened that I will possibly have to watch a child go through the things that we all read about.

You seem very knowledgeable in this area. I would like to ask for your wisdom on this one:

Is it a far stretch to think that this could be worked out between two people? I mean, am I thinking in fairy-tale terms here to think that they could each have there own lives while harmoniously raising a stable child ? If not, would adoption be better?
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
That really depends on the maturity of both of the parents. Some people are able to put aside their own differences and bring what's best for the child(ren) to the forefront and keep that as the focus. Unfortunately, my experience is that it's less frequent than one would like it to be. Yes, adoption is a good option - but that's not a decision that can be forced.

sigh.......
 

casa

Senior Member
UnbornChild said:
>>The kids are the ones who suffer while their so-called parents squabble.
<<

You are so correct. And I too am astounded at the lack of commitment from people. On a more selfish note, I am also so saddened that I will possibly have to watch a child go through the things that we all read about.

You seem very knowledgeable in this area. I would like to ask for your wisdom on this one:

Is it a far stretch to think that this could be worked out between two people? I mean, am I thinking in fairy-tale terms here to think that they could each have there own lives while harmoniously raising a stable child ? If not, would adoption be better?
Because the mother is refusing contact with your son- It sounds as though he may have to enforce his rights legally. As Stealth said, he will have to wait until the child is born, file for paternity to be established (usually via DNA) and then file for joint custody and have the court determine custody/visitation and child support.

Yes, it's entirely possible for parents who are not together to coparent a stable child. This mother does not seem willing (IMO) so there will likely be bumps ahead...but it doesn't mean your son shouldnt be a part of his child's life.

As for the Christian vs. Non-Christian aspect~ It sounds to me like she turned up pregnant and wanted to save face within her church. I personally do not believe she'd allow 'rape' for 7 months duration. And though sex outside of marriage may not be 'ideal', it hardly distinguishes whether or not one is a 'Christian'.

Also if the pastor (In your opinion) is setting this girl up to agree to an adoption by one of his 'friends'...know that your son can petition to court and not allow the adoption, since he is the father. (Once DNA establishes legally his paternity) Faced with the option of giving up the child to your son or keeping it herself, I'd bet she'll want to keep it herself.
 

AHA

Senior Member
First of all, please leave religion out of this, it's the biggest killer, war starter and brainwasher in the world. Being christian(or any other religion) and having unprotected sex just means you are a stupid christian. Both are adults and should have known better, although religion clearly doesn't educate very well (brainwashing never does).
Deal with the issue at hand, there is a child on the way that will be born to two parents that refuse to grow up and act like adults eventhough they truly have the ages of adults (embarrassing to say the least!!). Who initiated the sex is totally to late to debate now. Since there is no way for you to know by 100% that your son is the father, there is little you can do until the kid is born. And at that time, it his him, your son, who has to straighten this out, you have no legal right to get involved and you'll risk messing up whatever chance your son has to his child if it proves to be his. And why have the pastor meetings been so unsuccessful? Rule of thumb, if a process doesn't work, try another one until you find one that does work. Your son is an adult, let him deal with consequences for his lack of good judgement.
 
Wow! What great posts. Thank you!! I love the part about "stupid Christians".

By hte way, I am not trying to bring religion into the forum here. It IS however a big part in what is going on, htough, so it had to be mentioned.

Also, I heard stealth when he/she said the adoption should not be forced. I also heard AHA when he/she said to let my son handle this on his own. I agree with both comments. Andm belive me, I am. That said, don't for a minute think I am not affected by all of this. I do know my role is to stay back and watch, however. I also want to be ready when my son asks us for advice. By the way, yes, I wouldn't visit the pastor again. My son says he is done with the visits but I suspect even a little knowledge from the pastor is tempting enough to bring him back. I am hoping my son won't see him again, though.

Basically, it sounds like we just have some waiting to do.

Thank you again for all your advice. I'll be back when more is needed. This is a great place.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
UnbornChild said:
Wow! What great posts. Thank you!! I love the part about "stupid Christians".

By hte way, I am not trying to bring religion into the forum here. It IS however a big part in what is going on, htough, so it had to be mentioned.

Also, I heard stealth when he/she said the adoption should not be forced. I also heard AHA when he/she said to let my son handle this on his own. I agree with both comments. Andm belive me, I am. That said, don't for a minute think I am not affected by all of this. I do know my role is to stay back and watch, however. I also want to be ready when my son asks us for advice. By the way, yes, I wouldn't visit the pastor again. My son says he is done with the visits but I suspect even a little knowledge from the pastor is tempting enough to bring him back. I am hoping my son won't see him again, though.

Basically, it sounds like we just have some waiting to do.

Thank you again for all your advice. I'll be back when more is needed. This is a great place.
Stop this 'pastor' crap and take your idiot son to an attorney now. And yes, your son is an idiot. Only non-thinking people have sex without protection. And if they are against protection, then they don't need to be having sex.

CASE CLOSED!
 
>>Stop this 'pastor' crap and take your idiot son to an attorney now. And yes, your son is an idiot. Only non-thinking people have sex without protection. And if they are against protection, then they don't need to be having sex.<<

A little more raw than I would have put it, but I am in full agreement. This generation of all has been taught to use protection. This person (my son) has been taught to use his head (you don't need to get smart with your replies on this one) to think with and not his desires.

Again, I have my own very strong feelings on this matter but am mostly looking for legal direction, which I have obtained. I do realize that I am open to comments such as yours when I air my dirty laundry in public. It's healthy, I suppose.

By the way, if you have read my posts, you know I am all for him not meeting with the pastor again. But I will not get that far involved. It wouldn't be conducive to the situation. Therefore, I will not "take" my son anywhere either. (to see an attorney or otherwise) Although, I would highly suggest that he see an attorney to be prepared, ee will have to make his own way. We will help as best as we can, but as they say he made his proverbial bed...

On that thought, when would be the best time to contact an attorney? If he has no rights until the baby is born, should he wait until right before the baby is born, right after or maybe now to prepare well in advance? We are suspecting that she is due in August or September.

Again, as my prior posts state, I am just looking to be prepared for the upcoming months. (years, etc.)
 

mary wren

Junior Member
Fathers Rifgts --Unborn child

I have been there done that with my Grandson. He was 20---she was 23----
As soon as the baby is born he should servr papers on her to have a DNA test done on him and the Baby. Do it now get the papers ready. Then if its his child go to court ask for custody/ vistiation. We did and got all we ask for. If this is his baby he will want to do all he can for it. We got the ex-girl friend in court when she ask for child support.Then he ask for visation right. GO FOR IT GET YOUR RIGHTS YOUNG MAN.
IF YOU WANT TO EMAIL ME PERSONALLY YOU CAN TO DISCUSS THIS FURTHER.
 
Father's Rights - UPDATE - Child is born!!

STATE: WA

A baby girl was born on September 2.

Here is where the situation sits thus far:

The father waited until June (per her request to be patient for info) to contact the mother. When contacted she seemed pleased to see him and called to have dinner the very next day. They spent a couple of hours together at a restaurant and she filled him on basics regarding the child (girl, due sometime in August, possible names) The father asked if they could begin talking about a parenting plan. She said she'd be in touch. The father thought it was a good start.

24 HOURS LATER:
The very next day she called to say that she was moving to Montana and that he could do nothing about it since she was the primary caregiver. The father silently agrees that this is a good idea (best interests of the child) since her family is there and could provide support. She also stated that this baby was not going to stop her from having her OWN life and that they (my son and her) would never get married so he should stop considering it. Let me explain that one. While, in the beginning, he suggested that he could take care of her and the baby, he gave the thought up months ago when she made it clear to stay away. At this point, all he wanted was a basic parenting plan.

JULY:

The father obtained an attorney and she was served before moving to Montana. Basically, the father was asking for permission to see the baby within 24 hours of birth and to begin a parenting plan.

Her Wa state attorney served papers requesting change of venue.

AUGUST:

Her reponse (along with her sister and brother) was that she had to keep all info from the father because he had a history of DV. This is laughable and he has many ways to back up his character, but no one really knows what goes on behind closed doors. This is the part that scares us, but more on that later.

They went ot court at the end of the month. The judge first ruled that Wa state was the proper venue. He then allowed the father to have 1 hour with the child after birth. (The father was very grateful for the hour)

SEPTEMBER:

The baby was born September 2. The father was notified within an hour of the birth. The father called the hospital to see if there were any rules he must follow for visitation (none) He then made the ten hour drive to the hospital in Montana. The nurse notified him that she was instructed by the mother to only allow supervised visitation and only by the family. Within a few minutes of his arrival at 5AM, the mother's step-father, three male friends and the mother's sister and mother's mother arrived at the hospital. The step-father yelled to the nurses that this guy (my son) was fu(%ing nuts and that they need to call the law. He went on like this for about a minute before the nurse told him that she was not calling the police and that he needed to calm down. He and his friends insisted on waiting outside the door of the room. My son visited with his baby for an hour in front of the mother and her family. All the while, they played Christian music and spoke of whatever they felt like speaking about. After the hour, my son was asked by the nurse if he felt safe and if she should call the police to help him out. He did not think he was in danger, so he declined the offer and left. Nothing eventful after that.

They go to court on Friday (9/16) to ask for temporary visitation. Just yesterday the mother's sister called to ask the father's his address. (The father recently purchased a home and they did not know the new address) Not sure what that was about, just that she said it was important. I personally do not think he's going to receive pictures and a thank-you card. In fact, while trying to have venue changed, they stated that they planned to have a restraining order in the state of Montana ( or something like that, I can't remember the specifics)

The father is asking for a GAL, but in the meantime would like some visitation rights.

The father would like to ask the court for unsupervised visits every other week. He will make the trip to Montana and stay at a lodge nearby the mother's home. He would like 6 hours on Saturday (4 in the AM & 2 in the afternoon) and 4 hours on Sunday (4 in the AM) Because of the recent response from the family, he would like the baby taken to him at the lodge. It doesn't matter "who" drops the baby off and picks her back up as long as they agree not to make a scene. He believes the mother is nursing. Is this a reasonable request?

The father, at this point, is not asking for any reimbursement for the fuel and lodging. Could he? Perhaps having his child support reduced? If not, he's still going to make the visits, but it only seems fair that he should get a reduction. Again, not a deal-breaker, though.

What if they serve a restraining order on him? Could a Montana restraining order be enforced in Montana if he had court orders from the state of Wa to allow him to visit his child?

What are the chances of the mother getting a Montana court to change the venue ruling by the Wa state judge?

Thank you for any help offered.
 
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