• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Father's Rights - Unborn Child

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

Status
Not open for further replies.
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? WA

Busy day indeed! I thought it was some kind of holiday and it would be rather slow!

No word from the hospital. The COO is off today.

Baby is definitely covered and has been enrolled since notification of birth (9/6/05) Mother was told this by dad.

I haven't had time to review the many forms. The attorney, I think, is off today as well. I think I will really be able to concentrate on them this weekend.
 


rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
UnbornChild said:
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? WA

Busy day indeed! I thought it was some kind of holiday and it would be rather slow!

No word from the hospital. The COO is off today.

Baby is definitely covered and has been enrolled since notification of birth (9/6/05) Mother was told this by dad.

I haven't had time to review the many forms. The attorney, I think, is off today as well. I think I will really be able to concentrate on them this weekend.
In addition the the rebuttal section, they also allow for allowance to reduce child support due to long distance visitation. Work the numbers on the work sheet using an imputed income for mom of min wagex40 p/week she may owe dad child support ;) It ia Veteran's day so the courts are closed and most law offices.
 
rmet4nzkx said:
In addition the the rebuttal section, they also allow for allowance to reduce child support due to long distance visitation. Work the numbers on the work sheet using an imputed income for mom of min wagex40 p/week she may owe dad child support ;) It ia Veteran's day so the courts are closed and most law offices.
I can't wait to work it out. She could owe child support even while she has the baby, huh? Due to his having to travel? :D She'll love that!! So will I!! This is getting expensive and I don't think it's going to be over anytime too soon.

Speaking of which, once the courts decide on the parenting plan, should most of this be over? I do realize if she is CP, we will still have a fight. I guess she could appeal, couldn't she (if dad was awarded custody)?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
UnbornChild said:
I can't wait to work it out. She could owe child support even while she has the baby, huh? Due to his having to travel? :D She'll love that!! So will I!! This is getting expensive and I don't think it's going to be over anytime too soon.

Speaking of which, once the courts decide on the parenting plan, should most of this be over? I do realize if she is CP, we will still have a fight. I guess she could appeal, couldn't she (if dad was awarded custody)?
Rmet...shame on you for leading her down the "garden path"...LOL...

No, there is literally no chance that she could be ordered to pay child support to your son if she remains CP. However there is somewhat of a decent chance that your son could get some credits against child support due to the cost of him having to travel for visitation. It might take his CS down to relatively low levels.

Yes, she certainly can appeal if your son is awared the status of CP.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
Rmet...shame on you for leading her down the "garden path"...LOL...

No, there is literally no chance that she could be ordered to pay child support to your son if she remains CP. However there is somewhat of a decent chance that your son could get some credits against child support due to the cost of him having to travel for visitation. It might take his CS down to relatively low levels.

Yes, she certainly can appeal if your son is awared the status of CP.
The WA judge has not ordered child support to be paid because of the distance, so mom applied for CS in MT, but she didn't really look at the formula. I did and I am not leading OP down a garden path. I told her to work the numbers. The MT formula allows for imputed salery for non working parent and offset in child support based on long distance visitation, it uses the business travel rate. We talked about this before and you even cited a number for milage rate. Even though, this will probably get stricken because MT ceeded jurisdiction, it might scare the you know what out of mom when she learns that she could have to pay child support, it does happen. When OP works the numbers we will have a better idea and it can be used as leverage.

You know you can't say how a judge will rule and each state has their own formulas. Did you go to the trouble to read the guidelines or look at the worksheet? There is no guarentee which parent is going to get custody, so far everything has gone for dad and WA state.
 
rmet4nzkx said:
The WA judge has not ordered child support to be paid because of the distance, so mom applied for CS in MT, but she didn't really look at the formula. I did and I am not leading OP down a garden path. I told her to work the numbers. The MT formula allows for imputed salery for non working parent and offset in child support based on long distance visitation, it uses the business travel rate. We talked about this before and you even cited a number for milage rate. Even though, this will probably get stricken because MT ceeded jurisdiction, it might scare the you know what out of mom when she learns that she could have to pay child support, it does happen. When OP works the numbers we will have a better idea and it can be used as leverage.

You know you can't say how a judge will rule and each state has their own formulas. Did you go to the trouble to read the guidelines or look at the worksheet? There is no guarentee which parent is going to get custody, so far everything has gone for dad and WA state.
Yes, so far everything HAS gone for dad. Let's hope our blessings are not running out!! ;)

I worked the numbers.

WORST case scenario based on the worksheet and leaning on the high side is that dad will pay approx. $288.00 per month.

BEST case scenario based on the worksheet and assuming baby will spend LOTS of time with dad but still not live with him: $73.04 per month.

I haven't looked to see what mom would pay if dad is CP. But it does not look as though mom would have to reimburse dad. That said, the judge in Wa could turn that around for him, couldn't he? :D

The travel allowances are only to offset dad's income by a certain percentage or they use the primary support amount, whichever is less. In dad's case, it is less. It will change each year since he is in the apprenticeship so they will definitely recalc each year or so, correct? Anyway, good enough for now. Thank you again for the links. I have forwarded them to the attorney. At the very least dad will not have to pay to have him find the site and download. :p

I do think the WA judge will be very fair to dad in this case. Also, the MT worksheet states "This is a standard calculation. Any adjustment to the obligation is supported by written findings."

By the way, the current IRS mileage rate is: .475!!!! The standard, when I travelled often, was usually .35 or so.

I am exposed to the trucking business and their fuel surcharges. My business went from paying fuel surcharges of .105 in May all the way to .275 in November! :eek:
 
Last edited:
LdiJ said:
Yes, she certainly can appeal if your son is awared the status of CP.
Just out of curiousity, if dad was awarded custody, how does the "move" take place? Does mom have 24 hours, 72 hours, what?

Also, if she were to appeal, does baby stay with her until appeal is over?

All the hearings have been without her there. When this "final" ruling comes down, would the judge "order" her there?

No, I do not watch too much TV!!! ;)
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
UnbornChild said:
Just out of curiousity, if dad was awarded custody, how does the "move" take place? Does mom have 24 hours, 72 hours, what?

Also, if she were to appeal, does baby stay with her until appeal is over?

All the hearings have been without her there. When this "final" ruling comes down, would the judge "order" her there?

No, I do not watch too much TV!!! ;)
Realistically, unless the GAL determines some significant level of unfitness on mom's part I don't think your son has much chance of winning primary custody. It could happen, particularly since grandma is such a problem, but right now the child's primary bond is with mom, and no matter how irritated the WA judge is with mom, he is going to be reluctant to take it so far as to disrupt that. I am only saying this because I don't want your hopes to get too high on that issue....and because it appears that the baby is well cared for.

I think its more likely that your son is going to end up with generous visitation....something more than standard.

However, if dad were to win custody, it would be up to the judge to decide how quickly mom had to turn the child over...and whether or not to issue a "stay" of his order if mom chose to appeal (if a stay was issued the child would stay with mom pending the appeal) Mom could also ask the appellate court to issue a "stay". There really is nothing "set" on that. Its up to the discretion of the courts.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
The WA judge has not ordered child support to be paid because of the distance, so mom applied for CS in MT, but she didn't really look at the formula. I did and I am not leading OP down a garden path. I told her to work the numbers. The MT formula allows for imputed salery for non working parent and offset in child support based on long distance visitation, it uses the business travel rate. We talked about this before and you even cited a number for milage rate. Even though, this will probably get stricken because MT ceeded jurisdiction, it might scare the you know what out of mom when she learns that she could have to pay child support, it does happen. When OP works the numbers we will have a better idea and it can be used as leverage.

You know you can't say how a judge will rule and each state has their own formulas. Did you go to the trouble to read the guidelines or look at the worksheet? There is no guarentee which parent is going to get custody, so far everything has gone for dad and WA state.
I was trying to joke with you a bit Rmet....hence the "LOL"...

While its not totally unheard of for a CP to end up paying some child support to an NCP (particularly in cases that are close to 50/50 and lots of credits are involved) its still very rare.....anyway, she has already run the numbers and has an idea.
 
LdiJ said:
Realistically, unless the GAL determines some significant level of unfitness on mom's part I don't think your son has much chance of winning primary custody. It could happen, particularly since grandma is such a problem, but right now the child's primary bond is with mom, and no matter how irritated the WA judge is with mom, he is going to be reluctant to take it so far as to disrupt that. I am only saying this because I don't want your hopes to get too high on that issue....and because it appears that the baby is well cared for.

I think its more likely that your son is going to end up with generous visitation....something more than standard.
I know it is unlikely but I do keep the faith! You know, I just don't understand, though, the logic behind it. I do understand that baby has bonded with mom. She IS only 2 months old (will be 4-5 when a decision is made) If these people are KNOWN to alienate and be kooky, why would a judge or GAL ever weigh the 4-5 month bond heavier than the childs entrie upbringing?!! I am not trying to be argumentative, I really don't understand the logic.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
UnbornChild said:
I know it is unlikely but I do keep the faith! You know, I just don't understand, though, the logic behind it. I do understand that baby has bonded with mom. She IS only 2 months old (will be 4-5 when a decision is made) If these people are KNOWN to alienate and be kooky, why would a judge or GAL ever weigh the 4-5 month bond heavier than the childs entrie upbringing?!! I am not trying to be argumentative, I really don't understand the logic.
Don't expect it to be over by the time she is 4-5 months hon....it could be, but generally these things take longer than that, particularly when its as contested as this one is. Its possible that she could even be a year old (or older even due to appeals) before this whole thing is settled.

You also have to remember that mom and grandma are going to be part of her life, even if dad were to get primary custody. Therefore she would be equally involved in the child's upbringing even if your son had primary custody.

The other problem is that grandma is known to be kooky and to have alienated the father of HER children (at least known in her own community) but the mother of the child doesn't have the alienating reputation at least, and by your own description wouldn't necessarily come off as "kooky" in front of a judge or GAL. Also, it will be years before it would be possible to prove alienation if it happens. Its really difficult to prove something like that until the child is old enough to articulate what is going on in her life. Alienation is based on the child's reaction to the parent....and proving that the other parent is the cause of that reaction.
 
LdiJ said:
Don't expect it to be over by the time she is 4-5 months hon....it could be, but generally these things take longer than that, particularly when its as contested as this one is. Its possible that she could even be a year old (or older even due to appeals) before this whole thing is settled.

You also have to remember that mom and grandma are going to be part of her life, even if dad were to get primary custody. Therefore she would be equally involved in the child's upbringing even if your son had primary custody.

The other problem is that grandma is known to be kooky and to have alienated the father of HER children (at least known in her own community) but the mother of the child doesn't have the alienating reputation at least, and by your own description wouldn't necessarily come off as "kooky" in front of a judge or GAL. Also, it will be years before it would be possible to prove alienation if it happens. Its really difficult to prove something like that until the child is old enough to articulate what is going on in her life. Alienation is based on the child's reaction to the parent....and proving that the other parent is the cause of that reaction.
Again, not trying to be argumentative.....

They are being so damn alienating already!! Isn't that enough for a court to see the signs and say, "Let's give the dad a go at this" Besides that, Gma is running the show even hen dad picks baby up!

I know the judge doesn't like her already so that is good BEFORE he gets a look at her. The GAL will hopefully see what has been happening before she meets her as well.

Thank for you helping. I do know that we need to be prepared for the worse.

Dad has written a few things for the GAL that he feels might be helpful to baby no matter who is awarded custody:

Video Conerencing between long-distance parents is very common and effective these days.

Pictures of NCP all over the child's room is positive.

Talking about NCP regularly with child (in a positive tone, not praying away the eveil spirits like they do. Have I mentioned thay one to you?!!)

Liberal visitation based on child's desires and needs. (She may just need a hug from mommy today. Of course this is if mommy were to move local)

The goal is to get the GAL to see that if mom would move back to town where she fled from, baby would have a chance to be co-parented. In gma's town and under her grip, mom has no chance, therefore neither does baby.

Mom's father, aunt and ex-best friend will tell the GAL this very same (and they are telling the truth)
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Good Morning!
A couple of things, all this MT child support may be theory, because jurisdiction in WA, but it may also be leverage.

Please look up the WA child support worksheets and run the numbers there, then your son will know all the options.

Remember in the written materials from last weekend mom or GMA posing as mom, claimed baby didn't need a relationship with dad because she already had a spiritual father and a stepgrandfather, this statement will be seen as a parent unwilling or least likely to allow for the relationship with the other parent, this could be a strong factor in awarding custody and WA courts have given children to the father's before even when the child was well cared for. While not termed alienation, it is a form of aleniation.

Another factor, one admitted in mom's appeal is that she fled to MT because because she had no support in WA and it was meant to be a bridge tempoary, that is an admission that her curent residency in MT is not anticipated to be permenant and she could, based on her history of flight take off somewhere else, protected by another relative, remember her brother joind the USMC and eventually will be stationed somewhere far away from MT and mom could dissappear somewhere unknown to GMA and hidden by another sibling under GMA control. So this history of flight will factor into this as well.

These days a lot of emphasis is placed on the demonstrated behaviors of the parents and their willingness to co parent and to allow the child relaitonships with their other parent.

Insofar as bonding. Until a child is 2-3 they are very flexible in that regard. The better the visitaiton the better any potential transition. In this case, even if dad becomes cp, mom still has a place in WA to stay and have access to the baby. Let me give an expample. My grand daughter was born when both her parents were in the Army. They were both there as were numerous grandoarents, aunts and uncles. Mom breastfeed GD had to return to work at 5 weeks baby had some problems adjusting to formula but after a few different tries found one that worked. GD was held almost constantly. GD had a babysitter that was like a grandmother. Mom was deployed when GD was 6 months old, Dad became the primary caretaker, GD who was already a daddy's girl didn't really miss mom and was in constant communication with her with videos and telephone. Mom returned from deployment just after GD 1st bday then a few weeks alter, Daddy was deployed for 1 month, GD was inconsolable she couldn't sleep and was looking everywhere for her Daddy talking to Daddy on the phone didn't cut it, so for a week or so GD stayed overnight at the babysitters, who was a constant presence in GD life and mom had GD home after work and returned baby to sitters home until GD seemed more comfortable staying home without tears. a few weeks later Daddy returned and life went on. As GD was older there were other periods of time when Daddy was primary caretaker but not the same reactions.

Children are adaptive. In this case, dad is being given visitation separate and apart from mom so baby will bond uniquely with both of them. A part of that bonding will involve other forms of care such as feeding and bathing, that is why mom is fighting that because she knows baby will form an attachment and bond with dad. Baby is and will still be young enough to form attachments to her caretakers for the next 3 years approx. That is why it is important for dad to continue to vigerously exercise his visitaiton and parental rights to the max. The situation in Gramdma's house is toxic, both mom and baby need to be free of that prison no matter how benign the care. I think a GAL will see through the facade especially when mom claims that her extended family is supportive and the GAL gets the true story. Remember, mom is a victim, she has been isolated and has nothing to compare her situation to and that is why she can't handle being a parent when her context is challenged.
 

casa

Senior Member
UnbornChild said:
I know it is unlikely but I do keep the faith! You know, I just don't understand, though, the logic behind it. I do understand that baby has bonded with mom. She IS only 2 months old (will be 4-5 when a decision is made) If these people are KNOWN to alienate and be kooky, why would a judge or GAL ever weigh the 4-5 month bond heavier than the childs entrie upbringing?!! I am not trying to be argumentative, I really don't understand the logic.
It's important to understand that the courts don't like to change custody (Right now Mom has it) unless the other parent can prove unfitness or danger to the child in the current environment. It's an even bigger challenge when the parents were never married.

Your son winding up the CP is not impossible...but I see it happening later down the road, when there is more documentation of her insanity. Right now her behavior could be seen as the same as many new (especially young) mothers. Many grandparents have children and grandchildren moving back home with them- and are taking on co-parenting roles. It's normal for young mothers in that situation to rely and lean on the Gma moreso than independent &/or older mothers.
 

casa

Senior Member
UnbornChild said:
Again, not trying to be argumentative.....

They are being so damn alienating already!! Isn't that enough for a court to see the signs and say, "Let's give the dad a go at this" Besides that, Gma is running the show even hen dad picks baby up!

I know the judge doesn't like her already so that is good BEFORE he gets a look at her. The GAL will hopefully see what has been happening before she meets her as well.

Thank for you helping. I do know that we need to be prepared for the worse.

Dad has written a few things for the GAL that he feels might be helpful to baby no matter who is awarded custody:

Video Conerencing between long-distance parents is very common and effective these days.

Pictures of NCP all over the child's room is positive.

Talking about NCP regularly with child (in a positive tone, not praying away the eveil spirits like they do. Have I mentioned thay one to you?!!)

Liberal visitation based on child's desires and needs. (She may just need a hug from mommy today. Of course this is if mommy were to move local)

The goal is to get the GAL to see that if mom would move back to town where she fled from, baby would have a chance to be co-parented. In gma's town and under her grip, mom has no chance, therefore neither does baby.

Mom's father, aunt and ex-best friend will tell the GAL this very same (and they are telling the truth)
That's why it's important that Gpa's affidavit/declaration address the issues of alienation he's experienced with the Gma...and his concern about himself, Dad & extended family not being able to spend time with the baby.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top