Forfeiture of winter break

[buglilly]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan
Sanilac county
My ex is threatening me with police because she failed to pick up the kids for her half of the winter break. Ive offered her to get them Monday at 7pm when it ends, she has to still pick them up, she refuses still and is again threatening me and telling me its my fault she didnt pick them up and id better take them to her house.
i have joint physical and legal. 50% of all breaks and every weekend (excluding breaks and holidays as they then fall under the break and holiday scheduling), i have every other holiday as well.
she did this same crap all summer and has the courts irate with it and she had 3 months to prove she had corrected her behavior and it wouldn't happen any more, this winter break she has done the same thing as she did all summer again not show up for days and or hours late. I allowed her all summer to get them still despite her negligence.
I just need to know what legally i should do, or have i done what i should and im just worried. ive offered her to still come get the kids, she refuses. making the 6 hour round trip drive to her house is not really possible for me to do as i have to work, i have a sitter lined up for the kids, thats not a big deal, but i cant take time off to fix her mistake again, i did it all summer every two weeks and i cant afford to do it anymore.
I just need some guidance if possible.
courts gave her 3 months to correct her behavior and lack of being able to cooperate and be on time etc, she has only had this one opportunity to pick up the kids, and she failed to again.

 

[The_Non-Mom]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan
Sanilac county
My ex is threatening me with police because she failed to pick up the kids for her half of the winter break. Ive offered her to get them Monday at 7pm when it ends, she has to still pick them up, she refuses still and is again threatening me and telling me its my fault she didnt pick them up and id better take them to her house.
i have joint physical and legal. 50% of all breaks and every weekend (excluding breaks and holidays as they then fall under the break and holiday scheduling), i have every other holiday as well.
she did this same crap all summer and has the courts irate with it and she had 3 months to prove she had corrected her behavior and it wouldn't happen any more, this winter break she has done the same thing as she did all summer again not show up for days and or hours late. I allowed her all summer to get them still despite her negligence.
I just need to know what legally i should do, or have i done what i should and im just worried. ive offered her to still come get the kids, she refuses. making the 6 hour round trip drive to her house is not really possible for me to do as i have to work, i have a sitter lined up for the kids, thats not a big deal, but i cant take time off to fix her mistake again, i did it all summer every two weeks and i cant afford to do it anymore.
I just need some guidance if possible.
courts gave her 3 months to correct her behavior and lack of being able to cooperate and be on time etc, she has only had this one opportunity to pick up the kids, and she failed to again.

What do the court orders state regarding transportation? What day are the kids supposed to go back to school?

 

[mistoffolees]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan
Sanilac county
My ex is threatening me with police because she failed to pick up the kids for her half of the winter break. Ive offered her to get them Monday at 7pm when it ends, she has to still pick them up, she refuses still and is again threatening me and telling me its my fault she didnt pick them up and id better take them to her house.
i have joint physical and legal. 50% of all breaks and every weekend (excluding breaks and holidays as they then fall under the break and holiday scheduling), i have every other holiday as well.
she did this same crap all summer and has the courts irate with it and she had 3 months to prove she had corrected her behavior and it wouldn't happen any more, this winter break she has done the same thing as she did all summer again not show up for days and or hours late. I allowed her all summer to get them still despite her negligence.
I just need to know what legally i should do, or have i done what i should and im just worried. ive offered her to still come get the kids, she refuses. making the 6 hour round trip drive to her house is not really possible for me to do as i have to work, i have a sitter lined up for the kids, thats not a big deal, but i cant take time off to fix her mistake again, i did it all summer every two weeks and i cant afford to do it anymore.
I just need some guidance if possible.
courts gave her 3 months to correct her behavior and lack of being able to cooperate and be on time etc, she has only had this one opportunity to pick up the kids, and she failed to again.

We'll need to know:

1. Is there anything in the court order about transportation? Word for word, but without the names.

2. You said that the courts gave her 3 months to correct her behavior. What, exactly, does the court order say?

3. What does the court order say about visitation over the winter break?

As a general rule, if she didn't show up to get the kids, you won't be held in contempt. Keep any emails and it's also a good idea to keep a journal of all the discussions you have, when you had the kids available, etc. The journal is not admissible as evidence, but it can be a useful reminder for you.

If the police show up, be polite and show them your court order. Tell them that you had the children ready, but Mom never showed up to get them. They can't do anything about her complaint, but you definitely want to be the reasonable one.

 

[LdiJ]

We'll need to know:

1. Is there anything in the court order about transportation? Word for word, but without the names.

2. You said that the courts gave her 3 months to correct her behavior. What, exactly, does the court order say?

3. What does the court order say about visitation over the winter break?

As a general rule, if she didn't show up to get the kids, you won't be held in contempt. Keep any emails and it's also a good idea to keep a journal of all the discussions you have, when you had the kids available, etc. The journal is not admissible as evidence, but it can be a useful reminder for you.

If the police show up, be polite and show them your court order. Tell them that you had the children ready, but Mom never showed up to get them. They can't do anything about her complaint, but you definitely want to be the reasonable one.

I do agree with this...but on the offchance that there is something in your orders that requires you to provide transportation (perhaps because you created the distance) you do need to be careful about that. Or, if you created the distance but you didn't modify anything to reflect that change you might run into trouble if the children are primarily in mom's custody during the school year.

In other words, be a bit cautious. Make sure that you are clearly in the right. Sometimes its safer to return the children and file for contempt against mom for the transportation issues, than to risk the children missing school and putting yourself in a bad light with the courts.

 

[buglilly]

I do agree with this...but on the offchance that there is something in your orders that requires you to provide transportation (perhaps because you created the distance) you do need to be careful about that. Or, if you created the distance but you didn't modify anything to reflect that change you might run into trouble if the children are primarily in mom's custody during the school year.

In other words, be a bit cautious. Make sure that you are clearly in the right. Sometimes its safer to return the children and file for contempt against mom for the transportation issues, than to risk the children missing school and putting yourself in a bad light with the courts.

It states that I have to pick them up for my weekends excluding the breaks and holidays, she is responsible for her portions/half. My address has always been on file, however she is the one who has moved farther and farther away.
I always keep a log and all texts as the ref and foc already had advised that texting/emails are the only and best way for us to communicate due to the problems that have been consistent.

 

[buglilly]

I do agree with this...but on the offchance that there is something in your orders that requires you to provide transportation (perhaps because you created the distance) you do need to be careful about that. Or, if you created the distance but you didn't modify anything to reflect that change you might run into trouble if the children are primarily in mom's custody during the school year.

In other words, be a bit cautious. Make sure that you are clearly in the right. Sometimes its safer to return the children and file for contempt against mom for the transportation issues, than to risk the children missing school and putting yourself in a bad light with the courts.

It states that I have to pick them up for my weekends excluding the breaks and holidays, she is responsible for her portions/half. My address has always been on file, however she is the one who has moved farther and farther away.
I always keep a log and all texts as the ref and foc already had advised that texting/emails are the only and best way for us to communicate due to the problems that have been consistent.
The order changed times and such for my picking up and dropping off for my weekends. However the holidays and breaks did not change at all.
There is a review hearing on the 27th assuming nothing happened prior that requires a hearing sooner, ie she doesn't show up for a holiday/break time for her half, denies my time again etc.
I was home all day friday waiting for her despite her nasty calls and texts i thought maybe shed still show up. she didnt. saturday she had nothing to say or email or text at all. today shes back to threats etc. i offered to let her come get the kids tomorrow, again she refuses.
the foc goes by one of their rules for holidays and breaks, the person who is exercising their visitation (half of break) is the transporting parent. this has been put in writing and clarified many many times for her by foc, especially over the summer and i again confirmed it on thursday with them 2 times to ensure i was correct still, and i was.

 

[gam]

It states that I have to pick them up for my weekends excluding the breaks and holidays, she is responsible for her portions/half. My address has always been on file, however she is the one who has moved farther and farther away.
I always keep a log and all texts as the ref and foc already had advised that texting/emails are the only and best way for us to communicate due to the problems that have been consistent.
The order changed times and such for my picking up and dropping off for my weekends. However the holidays and breaks did not change at all.
There is a review hearing on the 27th assuming nothing happened prior that requires a hearing sooner, ie she doesn't show up for a holiday/break time for her half, denies my time again etc.
I was home all day friday waiting for her despite her nasty calls and texts i thought maybe shed still show up. she didnt. saturday she had nothing to say or email or text at all. today shes back to threats etc. i offered to let her come get the kids tomorrow, again she refuses.
the foc goes by one of their rules for holidays and breaks, the person who is exercising their visitation (half of break) is the transporting parent. this has been put in writing and clarified many many times for her by foc, especially over the summer and i again confirmed it on thursday with them 2 times to ensure i was correct still, and i was.

You need to post what your order states word for word minus names, on transportation. Not your version, not FOC version or what they have told you or her.

What's the review hearing for, and who is doing the review?

There is no FOC rule, FOC only enforces the COURT ORDER, and only makes recommendations to the court.

She can move, as long as she stays within 100 miles of where the legal addresses of the children where when the order was made. If she has moved beyond that 100 miles, she needed either your permission or the courts.

Does she have the children for school purposes? If so when does there school start back?

 

[buglilly]

I did speak with the attorney and FOC both said I was fully within my rights as did the police officer who showed up Sunday night at 8pm with her stating I had kidnapped the children. After he read the texts, orders from FOC the current order and the emails he understood fully she was wrong and was told she could pick up the children by my offer on Monday at 6pm, she told the officer some nasty things and sped off.
At 830 contacted me and cried, i met with her and a witness (always) and in writing made an agreement. This agreement is being submitted and reviewed currently.
She has since turned again into the same not so wonderful person I have been dealing with as expected.
The review hearing is due to her refusing my time with my children, not showing up to pick up the children during the summer for her time (being days and hours late every time), being unavailable to have the children dropped off at her house at the ordered time, being unavailable for me to get the kids on time as ordered, and then minor issues such as threatening me and using the children and not supplying clothes and falsifying child support documents (she provided false income information for herself) etc. The review hearing was to see that she had and did correct all these issues within the 3 months. obviously she has not, and more have been added.
She keeps moving from her location and as long as she moves no more than 100 miles she is legally able to do so. and it is as the crow flies and not driving miles.
sanilac county is unlike any other in michigan, it does have a foc handbook and rules they abide by and force you to in addition to your court order, anything that is not covered directly by your order is then referred to the foc book of rules and handbook.
it is ugly and while against better judgement as i felt bad for her i allowed her to take the kids sunday night, despite my being right and despite my offer and despite the police supporting me fully. her pounding on my door all night as she said she would did not seem fair to my children to suffer through, i was not willing to even consider putting them through that even if there is a chance she would never have done it.
my order does not cover specifically anyplace in any of them (there are 3) that says anything about who is responsible for driving, only who can transport them other than her or i. it is then referred to the handbook that covers foc rules. I can if still wanted place all three of the orders on here including the current standing one, but at no place in any are there declarations for who is responsible for driving.

 

[buglilly]

She does only have them for school days excluding breaks and holidays and summer (then half of each and every other holiday).
School started back today 1/3/2012.

 

[Ohiogal]

She does only have them for school days excluding breaks and holidays and summer (then half of each and every other holiday).
School started back today 1/3/2012.

Seriously which one of the parents is going to be an adult? Neither of you are acting swimmingly quite frankly.

 

[mistoffolees]

I did speak with the attorney and FOC both said I was fully within my rights as did the police officer who showed up Sunday night at 8pm with her stating I had kidnapped the children. After he read the texts, orders from FOC the current order and the emails he understood fully she was wrong and was told she could pick up the children by my offer on Monday at 6pm, she told the officer some nasty things and sped off.
At 830 contacted me and cried, i met with her and a witness (always) and in writing made an agreement. This agreement is being submitted and reviewed currently.
She has since turned again into the same not so wonderful person I have been dealing with as expected.
The review hearing is due to her refusing my time with my children, not showing up to pick up the children during the summer for her time (being days and hours late every time), being unavailable to have the children dropped off at her house at the ordered time, being unavailable for me to get the kids on time as ordered, and then minor issues such as threatening me and using the children and not supplying clothes and falsifying child support documents (she provided false income information for herself) etc. The review hearing was to see that she had and did correct all these issues within the 3 months. obviously she has not, and more have been added.
She keeps moving from her location and as long as she moves no more than 100 miles she is legally able to do so. and it is as the crow flies and not driving miles.
sanilac county is unlike any other in michigan, it does have a foc handbook and rules they abide by and force you to in addition to your court order, anything that is not covered directly by your order is then referred to the foc book of rules and handbook.
it is ugly and while against better judgement as i felt bad for her i allowed her to take the kids sunday night, despite my being right and despite my offer and despite the police supporting me fully. her pounding on my door all night as she said she would did not seem fair to my children to suffer through, i was not willing to even consider putting them through that even if there is a chance she would never have done it.
my order does not cover specifically anyplace in any of them (there are 3) that says anything about who is responsible for driving, only who can transport them other than her or i. it is then referred to the handbook that covers foc rules. I can if still wanted place all three of the orders on here including the current standing one, but at no place in any are there declarations for who is responsible for driving.

You've been asked several times for th exact wording of your order. Since you won't provide it, I don't see how anyone can offer advice.

 

[gam]

I did speak with the attorney and FOC both said I was fully within my rights as did the police officer who showed up Sunday night at 8pm with her stating I had kidnapped the children. After he read the texts, orders from FOC the current order and the emails he understood fully she was wrong and was told she could pick up the children by my offer on Monday at 6pm, she told the officer some nasty things and sped off.
At 830 contacted me and cried, i met with her and a witness (always) and in writing made an agreement. This agreement is being submitted and reviewed currently.
She has since turned again into the same not so wonderful person I have been dealing with as expected.
The review hearing is due to her refusing my time with my children, not showing up to pick up the children during the summer for her time (being days and hours late every time), being unavailable to have the children dropped off at her house at the ordered time, being unavailable for me to get the kids on time as ordered, and then minor issues such as threatening me and using the children and not supplying clothes and falsifying child support documents (she provided false income information for herself) etc. The review hearing was to see that she had and did correct all these issues within the 3 months. obviously she has not, and more have been added.
She keeps moving from her location and as long as she moves no more than 100 miles she is legally able to do so. and it is as the crow flies and not driving miles.
sanilac county is unlike any other in michigan, it does have a foc handbook and rules they abide by and force you to in addition to your court order, anything that is not covered directly by your order is then referred to the foc book of rules and handbook.
it is ugly and while against better judgement as i felt bad for her i allowed her to take the kids sunday night, despite my being right and despite my offer and despite the police supporting me fully. her pounding on my door all night as she said she would did not seem fair to my children to suffer through, i was not willing to even consider putting them through that even if there is a chance she would never have done it.
my order does not cover specifically anyplace in any of them (there are 3) that says anything about who is responsible for driving, only who can transport them other than her or i. it is then referred to the handbook that covers foc rules. I can if still wanted place all three of the orders on here including the current standing one, but at no place in any are there declarations for who is responsible for driving.

Until you post what your actual order says regarding much of your problems with her, not much anyone can help you with.

Sanilac county is not unlike other counties in Mi. All the counties I know in Mi, all have FOC handbooks, I can't say every county, cause I have not tried to find every county handbook. I have spent many hours in a small county's court not far from Sanilac, I know exactly what it is like. FOC in small counties take their job way beyond what they legally can.

FOC handbooks are guidelines, they are not orders, they are not Mi laws. FOC can't say you have to use that handbook, can't enforce that handbook, if it is not in your order. FOC will tell you to refer to your handbook to work the dispute out with your ex, however it's a guideline, neither of you have to follow it, unless it is specific in your order.

If your order does not cover specifics on who does the driving, then does your order somewhere in it, say anything not covered in your order is to be refered to the handbook? Or something similar to that.

I want the exact wording of that part from your order. Cause I am betting your order does not say that, I am betting that FOC is telling you to refer to the handbook.

You have a lot of issues here, and if your order does not say specifically that anything not covered in it, should use the handbook, then your making some mistakes here to. If your ex gets smart, or hires a good lawyer, you could find yourself in trouble with a Judge.

 

[mistoffolees]

Until you post what your actual order says regarding much of your problems with her, not much anyone can help you with.

Sanilac county is not unlike other counties in Mi. All the counties I know in Mi, all have FOC handbooks, I can't say every county, cause I have not tried to find every county handbook. I have spent many hours in a small county's court not far from Sanilac, I know exactly what it is like. FOC in small counties take their job way beyond what they legally can.

FOC handbooks are guidelines, they are not orders, they are not Mi laws. FOC can't say you have to use that handbook, can't enforce that handbook, if it is not in your order. FOC will tell you to refer to your handbook to work the dispute out with your ex, however it's a guideline, neither of you have to follow it, unless it is specific in your order.

If your order does not cover specifics on who does the driving, then does your order somewhere in it, say anything not covered in your order is to be refered to the handbook? Or something similar to that.

I want the exact wording of that part from your order. Cause I am betting your order does not say that, I am betting that FOC is telling you to refer to the handbook.

You have a lot of issues here, and if your order does not say specifically that anything not covered in it, should use the handbook, then your making some mistakes here to. If your ex gets smart, or hires a good lawyer, you could find yourself in trouble with a Judge.

Most judges wouldn't make too big of an issue of it if OP is following the handbook on the recommendation of FOC. To me, the bigger risk is that if you don't understand EXACTLY what your rights and responsibilities are, your ex will steamroll you.