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  1. #1
    slnb73 is offline Junior Member
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    Getting custody back from grandparents

    Ohio.

    My father and step mother took custody of my son when I was 19. They said it was just until I got on my feet. 2 yeas later I am on my feet and have been for awhile, but they keep putting off switching custody back over to me. I have done everything I told the courts in Franklin county I would do before trying to gain back custody of my son. The only reason I gave them custody to begin with was my father threatend to ruin me in court and make it so that I would be proved to be an unfit parent and never get my child back.. I wasn't a bad parent I just didn't have a whole lot and didn't want my child to suffer because of it. I told him at the begining of the year that I wanted custody back before christmas. It's almost november and he refuses to file the paperwork until I drive out to his house on a weekend that my son is at his fathers house, and have a heart to heart talk. I can't get out there on those weekends because money is still tight but I can take care of him and my new born. Is there anything he can do to stop me or anything he can do to in general if I just go file for custody? And would I have to go to the court house in the county he recently moved to or would I go back to franklin county courts?


    To answer questions in the replies-

    At the time I gave my father custody of my child I was dealing with depression and was not completely financially stable. I did not want to give up costudy, but at the same time did not want my child to suffer. I opted to give my father guardianship but he wanted full costudy so he could file for child support against me and my sons father, and if I went against his wishes he threatend to ruin me in court. He filed for emergency temp costudy and lied about everything to make me out to look like a horrible parent.

    There was a custody hearing for full custody of my son. We went and I told the judge that I did not want to but I was doing it for my son. I also told her what I would like to achieve before I filed to take custody back. She said that it was not often she had cases like this infront of her and when I felt I could take care of him to come back and she woud be more than happy to switch costudy back over to me. But my father keeps trying to make me believe he can ruin me in court if I go against his wishes.

    I have a stable home. My husband brings 2 incomes into our home. Both of my children have everything they need. And there is plenty of food in the house. All of our bills are paid every month. And we are not in debt.
    Last edited by slnb73; 10-25-2009 at 05:35 PM. Reason: Answering questions in replies
  2. #2
    Isis1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by slnb73 View Post
    Ohio.

    My father and step mother took custody of my son when I was 19. They said it was just until I got on my feet. 2 yeas later I am on my feet and have been for awhile, but they keep putting off switching custody back over to me. I have done everything I told the courts in Franklin county I would do before trying to gain back custody of my son. The only reason I gave them custody to begin with was my father threatend to ruin me in court and make it so that I would be proved to be an unfit parent and never get my child back.. I wasn't a bad parent I just didn't have a whole lot and didn't want my child to suffer because of it. I told him at the begining of the year that I wanted custody back before christmas. It's almost november and he refuses to file the paperwork until I drive out to his house on a weekend that my son is at his fathers house, and have a heart to heart talk. I can't get out there on those weekends because money is still tight but I can take care of him and my new born. Is there anything he can do to stop me or anything he can do to in general if I just go file for custody? And would I have to go to the court house in the county he recently moved to or would I go back to franklin county courts?

    now, just to clarify, you gave your parents custody, not guardianship? correct?

    and you have ANOTHER child at the age of 21?

    if franklin county holds the order, then franklin county is where you would file any modification.
  3. #3
    Banned_Princess is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsabellaSoriano View Post
    now, just to clarify, you gave your parents custody, not guardianship? correct?

    and you have ANOTHER child at the age of 21?

    if franklin county holds the order, then franklin county is where you would file any modification.
    She felt since she couldnt provide for the first kid, two must be much easier to provide for.

    The new babys daddy wants to adopt the oldest too. happy little family they are.
  4. #4
    slnb73 is offline Junior Member
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    I gave up custody because I did not want my child to suffer but I got back on my feet. I got married and had another child with my husband. I was just asking for advice on what I needed to do and where I needed to file the paperwork.. I did not ask for anyone to judge my situation so please keep the nasty comments to yourself.
  5. #5
    Banned_Princess is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by slnb73 View Post
    I gave up custody because I did not want my child to suffer but I got back on my feet. I got married and had another child with my husband. I was just asking for advice on what I needed to do and where I needed to file the paperwork.. I did not ask for anyone to judge my situation so please keep the nasty comments to yourself.
    Good for you, what is the change in circumstance in your child's life that will warrant a change of custody?
  6. #6
    Isis1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by slnb73 View Post
    I gave up custody because I did not want my child to suffer but I got back on my feet. I got married and had another child with my husband. I was just asking for advice on what I needed to do and where I needed to file the paperwork.. I did not ask for anyone to judge my situation so please keep the nasty comments to yourself.
    i take it you've never stepped in front of a judge.

    look, here's the problem. you gave away your child. now, how do you go about convincing a judge it is the child's best interest for you to take him/her away from the only family she has ever known?

    if it was guardianship, you can just revoke the guardianship. custody, is a whole different category. unless the child is being abused and/neglected in some way, the child stays put. you could morph into Jo Frost, win every state lotto in america, and the judge would still not grant you custody.

    where is the father of the child? was his paternity established? was he aware you gave his child away?
  7. #7
    LdiJ is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsabellaSoriano View Post
    i take it you've never stepped in front of a judge.

    look, here's the problem. you gave away your child. now, how do you go about convincing a judge it is the child's best interest for you to take him/her away from the only family she has ever known?

    if it was guardianship, you can just revoke the guardianship. custody, is a whole different category. unless the child is being abused and/neglected in some way, the child stays put. you could morph into Jo Frost, win every state lotto in america, and the judge would still not grant you custody.

    where is the father of the child? was his paternity established? was he aware you gave his child away?
    I am going to disagree slightly. Parents do have the constitutional right to the care and custody of their children, and it does appear that mom gave custody to her father voluntarily, rather than it being ordered by a judge, against her will.

    I realize that OG says that this scenario needs a change in circumstance. However, I have worked with many families over the last 15 years who had similar scenarios, and nearly all of them were able to get custody of their children back, without a change in circumstance, when there were no fitness issues. Our group worked with literally thousands of parents during those years, and I would say that at least 15% of them started out with a custody situation similar to this one (gave their parents custody because they were young and their parents convinced them to do so for one reason or another).

    Those who lost the custody battle, were some of the parents whose children had been in the custody of the grandparent for many, many years, and many of them won as well.
  8. #8
    Ohiogal is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LdiJ View Post
    I am going to disagree slightly. Parents do have the constitutional right to the care and custody of their children, and it does appear that mom gave custody to her father voluntarily, rather than it being ordered by a judge, against her will.

    I realize that OG says that this scenario needs a change in circumstance. However, I have worked with many families over the last 15 years who had similar scenarios, and nearly all of them were able to get custody of their children back, without a change in circumstance, when there were no fitness issues. Our group worked with literally thousands of parents during those years, and I would say that at least 15% of them started out with a custody situation similar to this one (gave their parents custody because they were young and their parents convinced them to do so for one reason or another).

    Those who lost the custody battle, were some of the parents whose children had been in the custody of the grandparent for many, many years, and many of them won as well.
    Oh really LD? How many families have been in Ohio? When did you get your license to practice law -- is your group full of attorneys or lay people practicing law without a license? In OHIO where this family is, legal custody is a permanent situation. It requires a substantial CHANGE in circumstance. Your group? Really? What group is that? That is informed to all parties when custody is changed -- which does require a COURT hearing. Whether OP went or not doesn't really matter if she was served.

    There is NO PROOF she gave custody against her will. Though you seem to like that excuse.
    Parents should remember 3 things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex; when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death; your children determine what type of nursing home you end up in.
    Nothing stated by me should be taken as giving you legal advice or forming an attorney/client relationship.

    Attorney-GAL in Ohio.

    I've removed the knife from my back, polished it, and will one day return it -- long after you think I have forgotten.
  9. #9
    LdiJ is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohiogal View Post
    Oh really LD? How many families have been in Ohio? When did you get your license to practice law -- is your group full of attorneys or lay people practicing law without a license? In OHIO where this family is, legal custody is a permanent situation. It requires a substantial CHANGE in circumstance. Your group? Really? What group is that? That is informed to all parties when custody is changed -- which does require a COURT hearing. Whether OP went or not doesn't really matter if she was served.

    There is NO PROOF she gave custody against her will. Though you seem to like that excuse.
    You know what group I am talking about, so don't pretend that you don't.

    I did not say that she gave custody against her will. Re-read what I wrote.
  10. #10
    Ohiogal is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LdiJ View Post
    You know what group I am talking about, so don't pretend that you don't.

    I did not say that she gave custody against her will. Re-read what I wrote.
    Actually I don't know what GROUP you are talking about because I do not recall you ever mentioning the name. You again are telling me what I KNOW. Doesn't that get old? Because you have NO CLUE what I know. Of course that is just you showing your God Complex again -- but you aren't. -- God, that is. And you constantly making statements about what I KNOW is pathetically arrogant of you.

    I will admit that I misread that sentence. And I apologize for misreading it. It doesn't change the fact that MOM gave CUSTODY to her parents. THEY therefore are the legal custodians and IN OHIO -- you know, the OP's STATE -- there needs to be a substantial change in circumstance in the child's life to change custody. Why? Because mom was determined unsuitable at the time -- she voluntarily determined herself as such by giving custody away and the court agreed.

    But, one question, where is dad?
    Parents should remember 3 things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex; when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death; your children determine what type of nursing home you end up in.
    Nothing stated by me should be taken as giving you legal advice or forming an attorney/client relationship.

    Attorney-GAL in Ohio.

    I've removed the knife from my back, polished it, and will one day return it -- long after you think I have forgotten.
  11. #11
    LdiJ is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohiogal View Post
    Actually I don't know what GROUP you are talking about because I do not recall you ever mentioning the name. You again are telling me what I KNOW. Doesn't that get old? Because you have NO CLUE what I know. Of course that is just you showing your God Complex again -- but you aren't. -- God, that is. And you constantly making statements about what I KNOW is pathetically arrogant of you.

    I will admit that I misread that sentence. And I apologize for misreading it. It doesn't change the fact that MOM gave CUSTODY to her parents. THEY therefore are the legal custodians and IN OHIO -- you know, the OP's STATE -- there needs to be a substantial change in circumstance in the child's life to change custody. Why? Because mom was determined unsuitable at the time -- she voluntarily determined herself as such by giving custody away and the court agreed.

    But, one question, where is dad?
    I completely forgot that Ohio's statutes completely overrule the US Constitution.

    I completely forgot that if a young parent voluntarily gives custody of their child to their own parent, in Ohio, that they are permanently giving up their constitutional rights to the care and custody of their children.

    I better tell the grandma I am talking to in Ohio, whose attorney has warned that someday the parents may get custody back, that she doesn't have to worry about it because OG says custody is permanent unless there is a change in circumstance in her household. I better tell her that her attorney is completely wrong that law regarding third parties is not the same as law regarding parents.
  12. #12
    Ohiogal is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LdiJ View Post
    I completely forgot that Ohio's statutes completely overrule the US Constitution.

    I completely forgot that if a young parent voluntarily gives custody of their child to their own parent, in Ohio, that they are permanently giving up their constitutional rights to the care and custody of their children.

    I better tell the grandma I am talking to in Ohio, whose attorney has warned that someday the parents may get custody back, that she doesn't have to worry about it because OG says custody is permanent unless there is a change in circumstance in her household. I better tell her that her attorney is completely wrong that law regarding third parties is not the same as law regarding parents.
    Quite frankly you better get over yourself. It is seen as a permanent change. There are NON PERMANENT changes that could be done. But hey. YOU ARE GOD in your own mind at least and therefore we should all bow to your tax prowess since you have never backed up your legal education. Thanks, but I will wait.

    ETA: Oh and it is possible that the parents COULD get custody back -- if there is a substantial change in circumstance. For instance grandma could become too sick to care for the child, grandma could die, or various other things. Hence the parents would have a right then. The law is on my side in Ohio. I work with this law daily. I have been in the court cases in this state where it is seen time and again. You do tax. You don't know the law. You just seem to think you do.
    Last edited by Ohiogal; 10-25-2009 at 01:44 PM.
    Parents should remember 3 things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex; when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death; your children determine what type of nursing home you end up in.
    Nothing stated by me should be taken as giving you legal advice or forming an attorney/client relationship.

    Attorney-GAL in Ohio.

    I've removed the knife from my back, polished it, and will one day return it -- long after you think I have forgotten.
  13. #13
    Ronin is offline Member
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    The fact a mother voluntarily relinquishes custody of her child to her parents does not in and of itself establish she was 'unfit' at that time.

    A change of circumstances is necessary to even file suit for modification of a custody order. A change in circumstances of a parent is often sufficient for this.

    However, the legal presumption is that at the time the last custody order was rendered, this was in the best interests of the child, and continues to be. So the one seeking modification has the burden to overcome that presumption by a preponderance of the evidence.

    While there are certainly constitutional considerations with respect to a parents fundamental liberty interest in the care and custody of their child, this does not trump the fact the parent voluntarily relinquished custody of their child. It seems that the court would consider a best interest analysis in such a case to make a custody determination, but without being obligated to favor the parent.

    This seems to be the general legal reasoning behind some family law appeals I have read.
  14. #14
    Proserpina is offline Senior Member
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    So.....OP?

    Where is Dad?
  15. #15
    Ohiogal is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    The fact a mother voluntarily relinquishes custody of her child to her parents does not in and of itself establish she was 'unfit' at that time.

    A change of circumstances is necessary to even file suit for modification of a custody order. A change in circumstances of a parent is often sufficient for this.

    However, the legal presumption is that at the time the last custody order was rendered, this was in the best interests of the child, and continues to be. So the one seeking modification has the burden to overcome that presumption by a preponderance of the evidence.

    While there are certainly constitutional considerations with respect to a parents fundamental liberty interest in the care and custody of their child, this does not trump the fact the parent voluntarily relinquished custody of their child. It seems that the court would consider a best interest analysis in such a case to make a custody determination, but without being obligated to favor the parent.

    This seems to be the general legal reasoning behind some family law appeals I have read.
    Just to clarify, I never said mom was unfit. What I stated was:
    Because mom was determined unsuitable at the time -- she voluntarily determined herself as such by giving custody away and the court agreed.
    And that is the truth. Mom determined that she could not have custody at that point and was unsuitable to parent hence why her parents had to have custody. Now, that doesn't mean that the grandparents would have had the ability to prove that mom was unsuitable but mom relinguished custody. She voluntarily stated that grandma and grandpa suitable and she was not -- at least not in her eyes. And the court accepted that which is how grandma and grandpa got custody.

    The Courts in Ohio do not just look at a best interest analysis to change custody from grandparent to parent. In fact it is statutory what is looked at:
    2151.42 Best interests of child - order granting legal custody.
    (A) At any hearing in which a court is asked to modify or terminate an order of disposition issued under section 2151.353, 2151.415, or 2151.417 of the Revised Code, the court, in determining whether to return the child to the child’s parents, shall consider whether it is in the best interest of the child.

    (B) An order of disposition issued under division (A)(3) of section 2151.353, division (A)(3) of section 2151.415, or section 2151.417 of the Revised Code granting legal custody of a child to a person is intended to be permanent in nature. A court shall not modify or terminate an order granting legal custody of a child unless it finds, based on facts that have arisen since the order was issued or that were unknown to the court at that time, that a change has occurred in the circumstances of the child or the person who was granted legal custody, and that modification or termination of the order is necessary to serve the best interest of the child.
    That is LAW. Statutory. Change in circumstances is required. Because quite frankly custody happened per the divisions in B in this case. A change in circumstances of the child or the person who was granted legal custody has happened AND that is in the best interest of the child. OHIO LAW. Though I am sure LD knows of various instances where someone got it with no change in circumstance for the child or the custodian but just because they were the one involved in creating the child.

    ETA: All third party custody cases go through Juvenile Court and fall under their laws and rules. Children who the state needs to step in to place custody with a third party are dependent due to the definition of dependency (the parents due to their own shortcomings cannot be provide for the children at that time and need a third party -- sometimes the state but sometimes relatives) to take care of the children either temporarily -- through ETC -- or permanently -- through Legal Custody.

    ETA: In order for mom to have relinguished custody of her children to grandparents, it requires a finding by the court (whether stated or not) that the children need the grandparents to have custody and are dependent.
    Last edited by Ohiogal; 10-25-2009 at 06:59 PM.
    Parents should remember 3 things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex; when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death; your children determine what type of nursing home you end up in.
    Nothing stated by me should be taken as giving you legal advice or forming an attorney/client relationship.

    Attorney-GAL in Ohio.

    I've removed the knife from my back, polished it, and will one day return it -- long after you think I have forgotten.

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