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Getting supervised visits

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pekawrecker

Junior Member
And for the most part, pot isn't considered a big deal.

Regular, wake-and-bake and daily smokers retain and/or obtain PRIMARY custody of their kids.

Calling CPS when there is no emergency can seriously backfire.
If he is with a "drug dealer's" wife it's more than pot. Better be safe than sorry.
 


Proserpina

Senior Member
I'm sorry, I simply don't agree with the idea of running to CPS for every "what if", especially when it can be seen as being completely retaliatory.

CPS cannot, incidentally, compel ANYONE to take a drug test without a court order.

Also, listen to gam when it comes to Michigan threads.
 

gam

Senior Member
I'm sorry, I simply don't agree with the idea of running to CPS for every "what if", especially when it can be seen as being completely retaliatory.

CPS cannot, incidentally, compel ANYONE to take a drug test without a court order.

Also, listen to gam when it comes to Michigan threads.
I agree with what you have said.

Calling CPS is not a good idea when she has no proof that the child is in any danger with dad. She not only involves CPS into her ex's life, but she would involve CPS into her life and her childs life. CPS must investigate allegations, they call ahead of time and make an appointment. You think dad is going to have drug dealers and drugs there when CPS comes for the appointment.

The child is 4, CPS can and WILL INTERVIEW THE CHILD. 4 is not a reliable age to be interviewed by anyone THAT IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL IN THE MENTAL HEALTH FIELD. CPS workers are not professionals in the mental health field. Mom may be interviewed to, and dad may make allegations against mom, true or false, CPS then can investigate mom to.

Mom says dad is doing drugs, mom says dad drives to the city, mom says dad is hanging with a drug dealers wife. Mom has no proof that dad is doing drugs, mom has no proof that dad is doing drugs while the child is under his care, nothing has happened to the child so far under dads care, dad drives to the city, many drive to the city in Michigan and are not buying drugs in that city, dad is hanging with a drug dealers wife, but mom has no proof that drug dealers wife has anything to do with drugs, the drug dealer himself is in jail.

Mom has nothing at this time worth involving CPS into her life and her childs life. Honestly at this time in Michigan mom has nothing to even file in court and get the order changed. The order is 2 weeks old.

Mom needs to slow down and get some proof. Mom needs to be very careful about pissing off the court by filing already when her order is 2 weeks old. She had the opportunity 2 weeks ago to put up a stink about dad and drugs. Mom also has to be careful here on dad not getting his visitation.

I'm no expert on this, but I have a very good understanding of how the courts and CPS do things here in Michigan. I do work in the mental health field in Michigan, currently working in the substance abuse area. I can tell mom here, I have many patients that are addicts, that have unsupervised parenting time and I have many patients that are addicts that have FULL CUSTODY OF THEIR CHILDREN. Drugs or any substance abuse is not in itself a reason for one to not have custody or parenting time.
 

loucee

Junior Member
I am so new with all of this. I'm sorry if I seem like I don't know what I'm talking about.. because I really don't.

FOC said I could do two things. Hire a lawyer or file a motion within the court. I had them send me the papers for filing a motion... but I came here too since I'm just so confused.

Yes. We got a CS order. He's $1,000 behind and even though he lost his job, he cashed out his 401k so he could easily give a little bit to his son. I know this is doesn't matter but I'm freaking out with electricity and heat bills right now. I completely agree with you with the emotional support. I don't expect any from him and I'm ok with it. It's just all really new and seeing how he lives such a carefree life while I'm trying to keep everything together for our son is just going to take time.

No. He didn't call. He never calls. Our son will call him and he won't be home or answer his cell phone. My son just called again this morning... with no answer on both phones.

I know this doesn't matter either but our son has no interest in going to see his father right now. He says he's mean and smacks his face. I know kids can make things up though. I'm trying to push for him going today to see his father after reading everyones responses.

I'm wondering if a drug test would be possible. I did not want to go that route but he's driving our son around high. Would that be considered endangerment? This is an honest question. I'm not trying to be mean to my ex, I just want to know where the boundaries are.


Friend of Court will send you any papers you ask for. Exactly what did Friend of the Court tell you when you called? FOC likes to overstep their place in small towns, be careful with them. They do not make orders, they only make recommendations, only a Judge can make an order. They can enforce orders, and you need to be careful and follow the order, you can't change that order on your own. If you don't think dad is providing proper care, then you can file to change the order, but until the order is changed you must follow it.

If you were just in court, did you get an order for CS? Cause that would solve the problem of him not financially supporting his child. Do not plan on him helping fianancially even with an order of ever supporting his child, and forget getting any emotional support from him. Sometimes that happens and a single parent is left with doing it all, part of being the custodial parent.

Fact is the father can get high, if you can't prove he is and if nothing has happened to the child under his care, you have nothing.

Did he call or show up to take the child today? If he did either what was your response to him?
 

loucee

Junior Member
This is a definite gut feeling. I was advised by my therapist to involve CPS but I don't think I should go that route.

What is a peace officer?

The reason I'm seeing a therapist is to deal with the relationship we had when we were together. The drug use is nothing new. It's trumped our family for the whole 8 years we were together. So the lies and manipulation have really messed with me. There were also some sexual things that happened that were not normal. They did not have to do with our son but they were considered not normal.

Go with your gut. Sorry but I think when this situation is dangerous. I would involve CPS. They will drug test him. May even test you as well.
Also if you have to go pick up the child take a peace officer. They will provide safety if you feel threatened by Dad or the woman. Drug abusers are often unpredictable.
 

loucee

Junior Member
I'm going to be absolutely honest here.

My ex and I got together when we were teenagers. We were wild and stupid. This drug dealer didn't just supply weed. He got cocaine, ecstacy, shrooms... whatever. I have not touched any of this since I was a teenager. I will take a urine test, hair test, blood test, lie detector test, whatever it takes.

My ex and I removed ourselves from the situation and that town to supposedly move on to better things. My issue now is that it's just not the weed. It's everything again. We also used to party with the wife of the drug dealer who at the time was with another drug dealer.

They are shady people who only care about themselves. I have this awful thought that my ex is going to go on a drug run with my son and either A. get messed up in a bad drug deal or B. get caught by the cops.

My ex used to be just like these people. He has a record but from when he was a teenager and before we got together since I was not going to deal with that anymore.

I feel like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

If he is with a "drug dealer's" wife it's more than pot. Better be safe than sorry.
 

gam

Senior Member
This is a definite gut feeling. I was advised by my therapist to involve CPS but I don't think I should go that route.

What is a peace officer?

The reason I'm seeing a therapist is to deal with the relationship we had when we were together. The drug use is nothing new. It's trumped our family for the whole 8 years we were together. So the lies and manipulation have really messed with me. There were also some sexual things that happened that were not normal. They did not have to do with our son but they were considered not normal.
A peace officer is a policeman. He was telling you, that you can call and ask for a civil standby to do pick up or drop off. They will if they have an officer available. However this is not something that they are going to do on a regular basis. If you feel that there are problems with pick ups and drop offs(which you never mentioned), you can ask the court to make pick ups and drop offs at the police station or in a public place.

Keep seeing that therapist, but understand that therapist is a mandated reporter and anything you tell them regarding your ex and his care of the child, can have that therapist callling CPS. Not all therapists understand or have any experience in what is needed in Family Court to get the courts to do anything, they often jump the gun and report when that reporting is going to get very little. They are required to report what they think is abuse, but what they think is not always enough for CPS or the court to determine that abuse has taken place. Dad can be a drug addict, but that does not mean the child is in danger when under dads care.

Things that went on in your relationship with your ex, does not reflect on his parenting abilities. At least that is how a court often sees it, he could have beat you, but that won't stop him from getting visitation. Common remark I have heard from Judges when documented domestic violence occured, well he/she didn't lay a hand on the child, unlikely he/she will touch the child.
 

loucee

Junior Member
First I just want to say thank you for your advice.

I get what you're saying. I don't plan on getting CPS involved.

I still think my son is very unsafe in his fathers care but I know now that isn't enough. It also is such a bad situation since whenever my son comes home from his fathers he is so angry and is not himself for days. I'm the one who has to deal with our little boys hurt for whatever reason while his father is off doing whatever it is he does now.

At my exes house there is his mother, his mothers girlfriend, his uncle and of course him. Also in the back garage/house is his brother. My ex will text me with an hour to a couple hours saying he's bringing our son home because he's being bad, being mean to their 3 dogs, ect. I just do not understand how all of those people can't control a 4 year old yet I'm one person and he's great for me. (until he comes home and is "mad at his daddy") This really has nothing to do with supervised visits. I was just curious if you had any advice as to how to deal with this. I'll be in the middle of a meeting with DHS or trying to get phone calls in and my ex is texting me nonstop that he's bringing our son home. Of course when he brings him home or I go to get him he's high and our son says someone was there..

It's all put back on me again. I know I am a single parent now and I accept it fully. But when my ex doesn't father yet babysits like a 12 year old boy.. it's extremely hard. Sometimes it's not even that our son is being bad or the dogs, it's just that he wants to come home after a couple hours because daddy isn't being nice and of course my ex doesn't stand up to him to tell him it's his time but let's him come home. It's all on my exes time and that's it. I know it's the drugs because this is exactly how it was when we were young. My ex loves himself and that's it. But in the process he's hurting our son and making my life hell.

I agree with what you have said.

Calling CPS is not a good idea when she has no proof that the child is in any danger with dad. She not only involves CPS into her ex's life, but she would involve CPS into her life and her childs life. CPS must investigate allegations, they call ahead of time and make an appointment. You think dad is going to have drug dealers and drugs there when CPS comes for the appointment.

The child is 4, CPS can and WILL INTERVIEW THE CHILD. 4 is not a reliable age to be interviewed by anyone THAT IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL IN THE MENTAL HEALTH FIELD. CPS workers are not professionals in the mental health field. Mom may be interviewed to, and dad may make allegations against mom, true or false, CPS then can investigate mom to.

Mom says dad is doing drugs, mom says dad drives to the city, mom says dad is hanging with a drug dealers wife. Mom has no proof that dad is doing drugs, mom has no proof that dad is doing drugs while the child is under his care, nothing has happened to the child so far under dads care, dad drives to the city, many drive to the city in Michigan and are not buying drugs in that city, dad is hanging with a drug dealers wife, but mom has no proof that drug dealers wife has anything to do with drugs, the drug dealer himself is in jail.

Mom has nothing at this time worth involving CPS into her life and her childs life. Honestly at this time in Michigan mom has nothing to even file in court and get the order changed. The order is 2 weeks old.

Mom needs to slow down and get some proof. Mom needs to be very careful about pissing off the court by filing already when her order is 2 weeks old. She had the opportunity 2 weeks ago to put up a stink about dad and drugs. Mom also has to be careful here on dad not getting his visitation.

I'm no expert on this, but I have a very good understanding of how the courts and CPS do things here in Michigan. I do work in the mental health field in Michigan, currently working in the substance abuse area. I can tell mom here, I have many patients that are addicts, that have unsupervised parenting time and I have many patients that are addicts that have FULL CUSTODY OF THEIR CHILDREN. Drugs or any substance abuse is not in itself a reason for one to not have custody or parenting time.
 

loucee

Junior Member
The only thing I think of for a peace officer for is to show that he is on drugs when he brings my son home or I go to get him. That seems kind of vindictive though.
A peace officer is a policeman. He was telling you, that you can call and ask for a civil standby to do pick up or drop off. They will if they have an officer available. However this is not something that they are going to do on a regular basis. If you feel that there are problems with pick ups and drop offs(which you never mentioned), you can ask the court to make pick ups and drop offs at the police station or in a public place.

Keep seeing that therapist, but understand that therapist is a mandated reporter and anything you tell them regarding your ex and his care of the child, can have that therapist callling CPS. Not all therapists understand or have any experience in what is needed in Family Court to get the courts to do anything, they often jump the gun and report when that reporting is going to get very little. They are required to report what they think is abuse, but what they think is not always enough for CPS or the court to determine that abuse has taken place. Dad can be a drug addict, but that does not mean the child is in danger when under dads care.

Things that went on in your relationship with your ex, does not reflect on his parenting abilities. At least that is how a court often sees it, he could have beat you, but that won't stop him from getting visitation. Common remark I have heard from Judges when documented domestic violence occured, well he/she didn't lay a hand on the child, unlikely he/she will touch the child.
 

gam

Senior Member
I am so new with all of this. I'm sorry if I seem like I don't know what I'm talking about.. because I really don't.

FOC said I could do two things. Hire a lawyer or file a motion within the court. I had them send me the papers for filing a motion... but I came here too since I'm just so confused.

Yes. We got a CS order. He's $1,000 behind and even though he lost his job, he cashed out his 401k so he could easily give a little bit to his son. I know this is doesn't matter but I'm freaking out with electricity and heat bills right now. I completely agree with you with the emotional support. I don't expect any from him and I'm ok with it. It's just all really new and seeing how he lives such a carefree life while I'm trying to keep everything together for our son is just going to take time.

No. He didn't call. He never calls. Our son will call him and he won't be home or answer his cell phone. My son just called again this morning... with no answer on both phones.

I know this doesn't matter either but our son has no interest in going to see his father right now. He says he's mean and smacks his face. I know kids can make things up though. I'm trying to push for him going today to see his father after reading everyones responses.

I'm wondering if a drug test would be possible. I did not want to go that route but he's driving our son around high. Would that be considered endangerment? This is an honest question. I'm not trying to be mean to my ex, I just want to know where the boundaries are.
It's ok to be new to this and not know anything. The important thing is to want to learn about all of this. Being uninformed and going from emotions can make a mess of your case.

In Michigan you can basically file a motion at anytime, makes no difference when the last order was made, you can file, the case will be heard. However just cause you can do that, does not mean you should. Filing when you don't have enough, is not going to get you in the favor of the court.

That carefree life he is living can go on until the child is 18. Do not ever expect him to do more then that. When your child becomes an adult, if dad has done nothing but live a carefree life, then your child will decide what the relationship with dad will be. Get your own support system, like family or friends, other single parents(believe it or not these other single parents can be men). You help each out.

If he is more then 2 months behind in CS, FOC or yourself can file a show cause in Michigan. It may though anger dad to push on that issue already, but sometimes you have to do it. It won't get him to pay CS on a regular basis, it will get you a bit of cash for the moment, as most likely they will make him pay x amount of what is owed or face penalities. x amount could be $50 bucks(I actually know a case first hand that, that is all they ever make dad pay). If your income is low and do not qualify for state assistance, there are many local organizations around that can help. Churches, charities, food banks. If your low income, it's not to hard to make the qualifications for food stamps, so make sure you check to see if you can qualify for state assistance.

Keep a log of when dad calls, if he takes his parenting time, why he does not. In Michigan all courts usually go by a 30 minute wait time, so say dad is to pick up at 6pm, you must have the child available till 6:30pm. If he is a no show, then call, leave a message, hey you were suppose to pick up at 6pm, you didn't show. Then log it, along with the time of the call, and the response from dad if you receive it. Understand that parenting time is a right for dad, but he does not have to use it. I have seen some Michigan courts though modify the parents time after a year of missing scheduled visits. It's rare though they ever take it away completely.

Nope it does not matter your son is required to go if dad wants his time. Your job and responsibility is to make that happen. This is an area that the courts in Michigan I am very familiar with take very serious. You encourage that child, you get him excited and if needed you must make him go. Making him go can require you to physically put the child in the car.

If you have proof of him driving around high with the child, it can be shown to the court. You do have the right if he showed up for pick up high, to refuse to send the child. However you will have to explain that to the court, best bet would be to call the police while he is there. It's a risk, often they leave before the police get there, no proof, and it can be hard to explain it to the court.
 

gam

Senior Member
First I just want to say thank you for your advice.

I get what you're saying. I don't plan on getting CPS involved.

I still think my son is very unsafe in his fathers care but I know now that isn't enough. It also is such a bad situation since whenever my son comes home from his fathers he is so angry and is not himself for days. I'm the one who has to deal with our little boys hurt for whatever reason while his father is off doing whatever it is he does now.

At my exes house there is his mother, his mothers girlfriend, his uncle and of course him. Also in the back garage/house is his brother. My ex will text me with an hour to a couple hours saying he's bringing our son home because he's being bad, being mean to their 3 dogs, ect. I just do not understand how all of those people can't control a 4 year old yet I'm one person and he's great for me. (until he comes home and is "mad at his daddy") This really has nothing to do with supervised visits. I was just curious if you had any advice as to how to deal with this. I'll be in the middle of a meeting with DHS or trying to get phone calls in and my ex is texting me nonstop that he's bringing our son home. Of course when he brings him home or I go to get him he's high and our son says someone was there..

It's all put back on me again. I know I am a single parent now and I accept it fully. But when my ex doesn't father yet babysits like a 12 year old boy.. it's extremely hard. Sometimes it's not even that our son is being bad or the dogs, it's just that he wants to come home after a couple hours because daddy isn't being nice and of course my ex doesn't stand up to him to tell him it's his time but let's him come home. It's all on my exes time and that's it. I know it's the drugs because this is exactly how it was when we were young. My ex loves himself and that's it. But in the process he's hurting our son and making my life hell.
First understand that a 4 year old even in a perfect split situation, can have troubles going back and forth between homes. It's tough to have 2 homes, 2 sets of rules, 2 parents that you miss while in the other home. What you do there, is get him back to your routine as quickly as possible. If his behavior is bad, you do as you would normally do for bad behavior. It does make you feel like the bad guy, but you must get him back to his normal behavior. Time outs worked wonderful for my grandson.

My grandson started visitation when he was 2 months old. He is 8 now, he knows nothing but 2 homes. Much better now, but it is really a lot easier dealing with an 8 year old, then a 2 or 4 year old, they understand much more. My grandson spent lots of time in time outs on his return, but she also used lots of rewards for good behavior. Reward for his good, punish for his bad. Make the punishment fit the crime, don't go overboard and that is also why it's important to reward for good. My daughter made a chart, every week the chart started fresh, he got stickers for what he did good, no stickers for bad. If at the end of the week he had more then half marked with stickers, then he got a reward. Nothing big, maybe a trip to the ice cream place, fun activity with mom, extra video game time. If he didn't get more then half marked with stickers, then he got a chore or something taken away, like video game time, or playing for a day outside with friends.

My grandson's dad and his extended family still have troubles on their time controlling the child. Daughter has offered them suggestions, but they don't want to be the mean guys who punish the child. So they get what they get with that thinking. She just worries about getting him back on track here, and it's rare now that he comes back behaving badly. Years of knowing that the behavior won't be tolerated in moms house, has fixed that problem.

You do have to look at it as having a babysitter for a couple hours if this is the way the ex is doing it. Not a sitter you would actually hire to sit, but sad to say our mistakes of choices make that choice the courts.

There were several things that happened to my grandson while in dads care, there was proof that he failed his responsibility and it did go to court. However the court just puts in some safeguards and honestly things can still happen and one can not follow the court order. But even with these things that happened, the child is fine, problem was fixed and either of the things could have happened even with good care.

In 8 years though dad has never taken the child to the Dr's, he refuses. If the child is sick on his time, he calls my daughter. She has many times gone over to dads to check the child out and decide what needs to be done. It is in the court order that dad must call her if the child is sick on his time(one of the safeguards the court put in), but he won't call the Dr himself, nor take the child for care himself(also both of these are in the court order). Yes it pisses of my daughter at times, because she must do it, but at least someone is doing it.
 

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