Help protecting my children from their abusive father is custody case.

[Ladyback1]

Sometimes a kick-in-the-butt post or word or two helps someone stop being a victim and start to get it together. Sometimes it is a reality check and honestly it gets you prepared for those questions in court. Those questions were asked of me by our GAL day 1. Yes it sucks trying to explain how you were deceived, reeled in, and taken advantage of, but it also helps you to try and keep you and your children OUT of future relationships such as these instead of repeating the cycle.

Ummm....it seems to me that the OP is working on NOT being a victim.

message board posting does leave something to be desired, because one can't tell what tone/inflection and/or body language a person is using when asking these questions.

 

[Ohiogal]

OG is quite able to defend herself, ZiggieStardust. Seriously. If she has comments to my post, I'll address them with her. She's a big girl.

A mother who doesn't leave an abusive man and then wants to keep said man away from their children will have a hard time without ADMISSIBLE evidence. She didn't LEAVE this man -- he LEFT her. She will also need to face questions regarding her inability to protect the children and thus endangering them. Quite frankly, if this poster crumples at my questions then dad's attorney is going to chew her up and spit her out in court and she may lose ALL custody. The courtroom is NOT going to have sympathy.

 

[Ohiogal]

I didn't "dismiss" her points. But I don't feel it is necessary to attack abuse victims out of the gate. 'Nuff said.

I didn't attack anyone. If she felt attacked, she is going to have major issues and NEEDS counsel.

 

[Ohiogal]

No I did not, I don't think either of us knew that old account still existed, she registered to this site this morning as she was helping me to build my case for the custody hearing. I frankly don't care what you think, I was just trying to get some helpful advice and didn't think to make a new account, that would seem silly since we were both using the same computer. The fact that you are trying to make this into something personal scares me quite honestly. I'm not sure what you are trying to do here as it has nothing to do with the advice I am seeking.

Oh and... that isn't anyone's name "Did it ever occur to you or your friend that using your or her real name would make it easy for your husband to find you online? " that is an old user name... not a real name... nobody is that stupid.

You are trying to build a case? Sorry but you either have a case for custody or you don't. Deciding now to try to build a case is not going to help you at all. You will have to answer hard questions regarding the alleged abuse and the alleged witnesses. Your new roommate -- are you involved with her romantically?

 

[Ohiogal]

My gfs name is Kathryn yes, I'd rather not get her involved in all this if you please.

Your girlfriend's name? Well Kathryn is not going to be a good witness for you then if she is your girlfriend. That will be torn apart as well. Expect dad's attorney to massacre every portion of what you say. YOU NEED AN ATTORNEY. And while you may not want to get her involved in all of this, she is involved. And she will most likely be scrutinized by the court and by dad's counsel.

ETA: And per Kathryn's live journal she speaks of living with her girlfriend Jackie. If she is a lesbian and this OP has moved to a new romantic relationship with her that may not help her at all in the allegations of abuse and a custody battle.

 

[Ohiogal]

I totally understand where OG was coming from with her questions....And I do know that, assuming the OP is "real", she may have to face those kind of questions in court.

But given that the OP has just recently stopped being a victim--OG's post was a bit harsh IMO.

It took me 3 years after the Ex was arrested for domestic assault to get myself together--mentally, emotionally--enough to stop being a victim. Even though he never physically abused me again in that 3 years, he was still very much a controlling, mentally abusive, @ss! But, it took me 3 years to realize he wouldn't/couldn't kill my family (like he threatened numerous times), and that I was not the piece of crap he always told me I was (you know the old "you're fat/ugly/crazy/stupid/etc. no other man will want you" lines)

So, yes, this is a topic that hits close to home. Abuse victims need some positive reinforcement that they did the right thing--not the "why did you marry him/her" or "what took you so long to leave" questions.

Just stopped being a victim or moved on to a new relationship which makes her demonize the old one? Sorry but this is not a support group and my questions were asked because she needs to be able to answer them. If she wants to crumple into a corner crying and be propped up, then fine.

 

[Ladyback1]

Just stopped being a victim or moved on to a new relationship which makes her demonize the old one? Sorry but this is not a support group and my questions were asked because she needs to be able to answer them. If she wants to crumple into a corner crying and be propped up, then fine.

First...I refer to my female friends as "girlfriends" sometimes, and I have no lesbian leanings!

Second...I'm eternally grateful that my attorney wasn't like you. She understood when to "push" me and when to "prop" me up.

Third...people who are truly abused have a completely different perspective than those who aren't. Until that is realized and understood by you OG, you won't get it. Sometimes you stay because you are terrified of leaving and incurring what you know will be much worse than what you are currently enduring!

Finally...I do understand why you asked the questions you did. I just believe that you (or anyone else) could have put the disclaimer of "you're going to be faced with these questions". That's all.

 

[gr8rn]

Everyday I ask myself why, and I am seeking help to try and understand everything. I grew up in an abusive home, my mother was never around, she would fly all over Europe and I hardly ever saw her. I'd rather not delve too deeply into MY childhood, but I grew up thinking that this was how it was supposed to be in a way, my friends were HIS friends, I placed people around me who enabled bad behavior, the only thing I can compare to that is addiction. Like I said in the past year, year and a half I have met OTHER people, different people, people who understand UNCONDITIONAL love, something I rarely saw or felt myself for a looong time except from my kids. My mama bear was a shell, until my now roommate and HER family meteorically gave me a slap in the face. I was so lost in all of this. And I am ashamed.

It sounds like you have been to a women's shelter or something similar. It sounds like you are in therapy and you're working on getting your child into therapy as well. These are all good things. You're womens place may have legal advocates who will help you navigate the legal aid process and be there with you and your attorney when you have your day in court. If you haven't already, ask at the women's place for legal advocacy. They are good resources.

There are many support forums out there for you. Here, you will get the legal realities of your situation. Don't confuse the two.

I was in an abusive situation. When I read other abused women's stories, they all sound like mine. You'd think that these men would all stick out and be so obvious that no woman in her right mind would get involved with them.

Because they are master manipulators. They quickly figure out what you need and like a cameleon, they adapt to make you think you can't live without them. You learn the dance, and before you know it, you know all the steps. When you miss the perfect choreography, you learn quickly not to do it again.

Eventually you become numb to every emotion, every caustic remark, every slap, every horrible thing he says. You develop a hard shell and like a turtle, you pull yourself inside and try to maintain. You learn to keep up the dance, and never, ever wake the sleeping giant.

 

[Ohiogal]

First...I refer to my female friends as "girlfriends" sometimes, and I have no lesbian leanings!

Second...I'm eternally grateful that my attorney wasn't like you. She understood when to "push" me and when to "prop" me up.

Third...people who are truly abused have a completely different perspective than those who aren't. Until that is realized and understood by you OG, you won't get it. Sometimes you stay because you are terrified of leaving and incurring what you know will be much worse than what you are currently enduring!

Finally...I do understand why you asked the questions you did. I just believe that you (or anyone else) could have put the disclaimer of "you're going to be faced with these questions". That's all.

You KNOW NOTHING about my history. So don't ever try to say I won't get it. Or even that I don't get it. Your arrogance is astounding in that you think you know me.

Did you read Kathryn's site? She is a lesbian based on HER postings. As for the rest of your post, this is not about YOU. This is about OP. Who is all over the place. Until you comprehend court and how this can go for the OP based on the facts she presented -- dad has an attorney, she doesn't, she has no proof of abuse, she now has a girlfriend who has helped her "see the abuse", she doesn't dad around his child/ren -- then you will not be helping her. Dad has an attorney. They have court. This woman wants to BUILD a case against her ex. And her girlfriend is going to help. Sorry but I am not going to be all "there, there poor little abused woman -- don't worry, he won't get custody and you and your girlfriend should live happily ever after." Oh there, I said it. Hey poor little OP don't worry. Because you say he is a big horrible abusive person, don't worry. You have a sure win on getting custody.

 

[breezymom]

Perhaps it is because I can normally see how many points-of-view work over a situation (which is part of what got ME drawn into the abusive situation in which I was), I see a LOT of great information in here.

I think where I have actually worked past some things is that, like gr8rn says, I am beginning--beginning, now--to start letting things said and done roll down the shell that is developing. I can shed my bias OUT of things when reading others' situations, which allows me to also learn about my own--but I'm not quite there yet. It does take time and, most importantly, education.

What people should expect to see when they come here for advice are the many different personalities with which they will deal while going through custody battles. Expect to have holes punched in your story. DON'T expect that lawyers are going to SEEM to take your side or FEEL that they are against you when they don't represent YOU. Lawyers are going to do what they see best for THEIR clients, NOT you.

So, based on her experiences and biases (everyone has them), and based on the fact that OG is a GAL, she represents the CHILD, not you, not me, and THAT is going to be her perspective above all else (and I can bet she will tell me if I'm wrong here). But, really...re-read the thread, folks, and see, through the process of the banter how things are panning out. There is a lot of useful information provided by all sides in here that many folks could use after reading this thread.

 

[Ohiogal]

Perhaps it is because I can normally see how many points-of-view work over a situation (which is part of what got ME drawn into the abusive situation in which I was), I see a LOT of great information in here.

I think where I have actually worked past some things is that, like gr8rn says, I am beginning--beginning, now--to start letting things said and done roll down the shell that is developing. I can shed my bias OUT of things when reading others' situations, which allows me to also learn about my own--but I'm not quite there yet. It does take time and, most importantly, education.

What people should expect to see when they come here for advice are the many different personalities with which they will deal while going through custody battles. Expect to have holes punched in your story. DON'T expect that lawyers are going to SEEM to take your side or FEEL that they are against you when they don't represent YOU. Lawyers are going to do what they see best for THEIR clients, NOT you.

So, based on her experiences and biases (everyone has them), and based on the fact that OG is a GAL, she represents the CHILD, not you, not me, and THAT is going to be her perspective above all else (and I can bet she will tell me if I'm wrong here). But, really...re-read the thread, folks, and see, through the process of the banter how things are panning out. There is a lot of useful information provided by all sides in here that many folks could use after reading this thread.

Oh I am NOT just a GAL. I also represent abused women and impoverished parents and alleged abusers. And I have seen what courts expect when it comes to evidence. I notice OP hasn't answered whether this girlfriend is a "friend who is a girl" or a "romantic hug-and-kiss-and-sex girlfriend". The problem is she has issues. Throwing the abuse card doesn't matter if she can't prove it. And truthfully, based on what she has posted, she can't prove it. She can't just expect to "build" a case. The case is already built. It was built each and every day and if she has the proof of what happened each and every day then she has a case. But from the sounds of things, she doesn't have a case that dad was abusive or should be kept away from his children. Dad sounds like he may have a hundred different ways to discredit her.

As for biases, yes we all have them. I won't deny that. However, I have not attacked OP. I have asked questions and pointed out issues. That is not attacking. That is actually attempting to help. But if she doesn't see the help then that is her issue.

 

[Ladyback1]

You KNOW NOTHING about my history. So don't ever try to say I won't get it. Or even that I don't get it. Your arrogance is astounding in that you think you know me.

Until you comprehend court and how this can go for the OP based on the facts she presented -- dad has an attorney, she doesn't, she has no proof of abuse, she now has a girlfriend who has helped her "see the abuse", she doesn't dad around his child/ren -- then you will not be helping her. .

Nope, didn't read anybody's site. I don't have the time or energy or inclination to delve into the every aspects of a poster's life.

And your arrogance in thinking I don't understand court and "how things can go" is equally as astounding!

 

[Ohiogal]

Nope, didn't read anybody's site. I don't have the time or energy or inclination to delve into the every aspects of a poster's life.

And your arrogance in thinking I don't understand court and "how things can go" is equally as astounding!

My experience in the courtroom far outshines yours and I have seen a heck of a lot more of it than you have. From all angles. I notice you didn't bring up any of the issues this poster might have with your claims in court. Instead you went straight to the pity party support group stance. That won't help in court.

 

[breezymom]

Oh I am NOT just a GAL. I also represent abused women and impoverished parents and alleged abusers. And I have seen what courts expect when it comes to evidence. I notice OP hasn't answered whether this girlfriend is a "friend who is a girl" or a "romantic hug-and-kiss-and-sex girlfriend". The problem is she has issues. Throwing the abuse card doesn't matter if she can't prove it. And truthfully, based on what she has posted, she can't prove it. She can't just expect to "build" a case. The case is already built. It was built each and every day and if she has the proof of what happened each and every day then she has a case. But from the sounds of things, she doesn't have a case that dad was abusive or should be kept away from his children. Dad sounds like he may have a hundred different ways to discredit her.

As for biases, yes we all have them. I won't deny that. However, I have not attacked OP. I have asked questions and pointed out issues. That is not attacking. That is actually attempting to help. But if she doesn't see the help then that is her issue.

OG, I was definitely not saying you attacked anyone, myself. I was just pointing out how your prospective *may* differ. And, coming to a legal site, I expected to have what I wrote "attacked." Why? Because how else am I going to learn.

I once had a Philosophy professor--my absolute favorite professor--every term in every class, no matter what level, the first words out of his mouth were, "When we debate in here, I am NOT attacking YOU, personally. I am attacking your ARGUMENT."

That is what a site like this is for because in court there is no "practice" hearing. In custody situations there is no taking things back. All one can do is learn. I, after writing what I wrote this morning and re-hashing last week's events, finally said it out loud, myself: "I will no longer be a victim." We can only control our behavior and if this means not letting ourselves be victimized over and over again, then that's what we need to fix in our own selves. I know I'm not doing my part of raising our child to be a victim or victimizer, but to be able to politely assert herself when necessary. I don't want to be a hypocrite. I want to practice what I preach. Think about things like that, OP, really. If they see YOU allowing yourself to be victimized, they themselves can go one way or the other, as well.

 

[MichaCA]

Pennsylvania
My soon-to-be-ex husband of 12 years has a history of aggravated assault and harassment and is very controlling. He was in a gang in the 90s and has been on probation twice- once was around 1996 when beat a man almost to death and was put in jail for 6mo. and was sentenced to two years probation, and once was last year when he lost control more than usual and hit me in the face and I called the police. He pleaded guilty to aggravated assault and was sentenced to a year of probation and anger management. He likes to brag about beating people, and he is very very abusive, and he knows how to manipulate people very well. Only this Easter was I able to finally be freed from him, not without help.
The abuse I have suffered over the years is basically textbook, he is intimidating, he used guilt and coercion to get what he wants, he made many threats, he is verbally abusive and humiliates me in front of his friends. He isolated me from MY friends, he minimizes and denies his behavior if he isn't blaming me or others. He uses the children, he abuses authority, and he has complete financial control; I was not allowed to get a job or have my own vehicle for years. Then he would hit me or abuse me sexually.
I was awarded a 3yr Protection From Abuse order and Temporary Custody of our two children (4yrs. and, 5mo. girls) who he is neglectful of, and I was solely responsible for parenting. I am involved at the school where my eldest child attends, and took them to the doctors etc. He has made unauthorized visits with my eldest daughter when she is at my mother's house, against the rules of the PFA, and have made many reports with my local police department AND to his former probation officer while he was still on probation before the PFA was in order.
When he left in April he closed our bank account, took the only vehicle and some documents, and has not provided any type of support financially or otherwise. He has made FALSE and defamatory statements about myself and others to gain power. I have lost friends, family and respect through this whole process, just because I'm trying to keep my kids SAFE. He has reunited former members of his old gang in Easton, PA and I fear for my children, and further damage to myself and others. I
Near the end of April I gained a job and I am now an assistant manager. I am collecting food stamps and other assistance to help pay for our apartment, which is now in my name only, from Social Services until I can get child support through the courts. I have barely enough money to get by right now and I walk to work while my good friend stays with my children. Unfortunately I was not always able to document things as I was terrified of him, and things would always get worse. I was afraid he was going to hurt my family or even the children if I sought help of any kind. My concern is that he has filed for custody of our children and has hired a lawyer. I need to know what to do, what to say, things I need to prove in court. Please help.

What exactly are you wanting to happen? First there is wanting to protect your child, then I read you WANT dad involved with the kids. To prepare for court, you need to get clear what you think is best for the kids, run that by an attorney, and then re-write/request it for your responsive declaration.

How much time do you have to get in your responsive declaration? (you know it has to be served within X number of days before your mediation or court hearing)

So you have documented abuse of dad to YOU a year ago. Did you then stay with dad (not trying to judge you, just get clear)? Is it true you are separated because he recently left you? I am asking as there is a protection order for you and your kids. When did that order get issued and when does it run out? Having you been seeing/living with dad while the protection order is going on?

I think all of these questions are relevant for you to get to the heart of your case. Maybe its just me, but I am completely unclear where you are trying to go with all this.

I think its GREAT you are in a domestic violence support group. One thing I have seen in my research around the impact of domestic violence on kids/child abuse is you need someone by your side who is a domestic violence advocate. By the same token, if you are hanging out with abusive dad while there is a protection order for safety, it is a fact your not doing your job as a mom to protect your children. If those are the facts, I don't see an arguement for the childrens safety - at least not in court.

Sorry if I sound abrasive or unsupportive. I am aware - to some extent - of the issues in domestic violence cases and am trying to get clarity.