Holiday Schedule Superseding Regular Visitation Schedule

[wileybunch]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NV

Physical custody during school year is with NCP Dad having standard visitation of 1st/3rd/alternating 5th weekends from 5:15PM Fri - 8:15PM Sun and 1 "dinner date" mid week 5:15PM - 8:15PM.

NCP Dad has 2nd half of Christmas holiday period which also runs into the 1st weekend of January.

NCP Dad's 2nd half of Christmas holiday period's end date/time is 6PM night before return to school = Sun 6PM of 1st weekend in Jan.

NCP Dad's 1st weekend end date/time = Sun 8:15PM.

CP contacted child via cell phone ~4:15PM to ask her if she could be picked up early (5PM) for a b'day dinner Mom was throwing for girlfriend of 19yo son (that lives at home). Dad said "no". Family had just arrived home from church and was preparing to eat dinner after doing a fast and had other things planned until pick up time anyway. Mom starts calling Dad on house/cell phone and in the course of the convo Mom tells Dad she's picking her up at 6PM; Dad lets her know the holiday schedule doesn't supersede his own time so it's 8:15PM.

Mom had local police come to door at 6PM after they looked at the holiday orders she provided. They hadn't seen the regular visitation orders and asked for a copy of those and decided that was enough, they weren't going to get involved and enforce anything and left.

Who was "right"?

 

[Zigner]

2 hours and 15 minutes...really?

Frankly, sounds like when the "holiday" visitation ended, dad still had 2.25 hrs of "regular" visitation. Dad was right, IMO

 

[wileybunch]

Yes, really. I needed to keep the scenario to just what it was for this specific case, but I could make you cry with the stuff Mom pulled going INTO Dad's Christmas parenting time, not only for what it did to Dad (and me and other family members), but what it did to the 14yoDD.

FWIW, Dad is my DH.

I would *never* pull the stuff with my kids as the CP that she does. And, my exDH was the one that cheated, left, then returned at some point to claim his kids so I could be a crazy maniac and people may buy my sob story, but I love my kids too much to screw with them. Ohiogal's signature line is absolutely true.

 

[Zigner]

Wiley -

If the dad couldn't let the daughter go a couple of hours early, then it frankly sounds like he also contributed to what the little girl went through.

I've responded SOLELY on THIS thread. I'm sure there's much more in the history...

 

[sometwo]

My understanding is holiday supercedes the regular scheduled parenting time to ensure the holiday parent gets the time with the child therefore outweighs the other parents regular/visitation time not that it takes away from the time the holiday parent has.

If that makes any sense. (it did in my head)

 

[wileybunch]

Wiley -

If the dad couldn't let the daughter go a couple of hours early, then it frankly sounds like he also contributed to what the little girl went through.

I've responded SOLELY on THIS thread. I'm sure there's much more in the history...

The first Sunday of every month we fast from Saturday night to Sunday night and break the fast after church (our church time this year is 1-4PM) and we were in the middle of doing this when Mom contacted DD about seeing if she could pick her up early (then proceeded to blow up house and cell phones and text DD14 -- I think DD14 ended up turning her phone off at some point). (We are LDS, if anyone's wondering, the fasting is something done churchwide by active members.) After dinner, Dad planned to do the monthly interviews with the kids that are also done on "Fast Sunday". Dad doesn't have to clear what he's doing on his time, but nevertheless he had plans with the kids. (A description of the "interview" I mentioned is here -- http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=70861f26d596b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD).

 

[Ohiogal]

That link didn't work for me. However, dad should go back to court to get that clarified so that all end times are at the same time. that way there is no confusion and no issue with when visitation for anyone ends.

 

[LdiJ]

That link didn't work for me. However, dad should go back to court to get that clarified so that all end times are at the same time. that way there is no confusion and no issue with when visitation for anyone ends.

I agree with OG, however, I am kind of thinking that mom was in the right with this one.

Dad had a whole week with the child as his holiday, and holidays do supercede regular visitation. I would have allowed the child to go with mom at 6PM rather than allowing a fuss to be created. I certainly don't think its something that a judge would ding mom about.

However, getting the times changed so that they are all consistant will eliminate the problem. However...is it that big of a problem? How many times a year does he have an extended time with the child that ends at 6PM? How often are those times going to coincide with his weekend? Wouldn't it just be easier to follow the order and have the child go back at 6PM on those rare occassions?

 

[wileybunch]

That link didn't work for me. However, dad should go back to court to get that clarified so that all end times are at the same time. that way there is no confusion and no issue with when visitation for anyone ends.

Here's the link again in another form:
LDS.org - E-mail to a Friend

LdiJ, as far as time, Dad had DD one day less of the period because he couldn't get her on a flight that would leave after his pick up time on 12/26 so Mom had an extra day with the DD on that end. We arrived home around midnight Fri from back east and then just had this Sat/Sun at home. The interview DH needed to do was important, not only because of it's usual importance, but there had been some drama prior to the trip back east when DD was with her Mom that DH needed to sort out. On the trip, there was no privacy to be able to have that sort of conversation. DH made it clear to his ex about the ending time. I didn't really think she'd go so far as to send the police. DD14 is a pretty stubborn and outspoken girl and didn't show any interest in going when the police showed up, either.

Last night was a turning point with DD and expressing feelings. She said she hates it at her home, she and her mom are always fighting. She wants all kinds of facts about their divorce and past now. She can't understand why DH won't lay it all out. Her mother has messed with her mind so much and bad mouthed DH, etc. and she realized her mom's been lying, but she wants more information. I think she's looking for a smoking gun against her mom and DH has to be careful with how he handles her questions and concerns and he did explain to her that parents are not supposed to put their kids in the middle. She said she wanted to know, why can't he tell her everything, etc. He explained it's actually a law that parents are not allowed to do that, it's not fair to the kids, she's too young to put these things into perspective, etc. It was really pretty sad to see her head all scrambled because there really is no reason she had to feel that way except the war her mom has waged against her dad all these years. I suggested she could speak to her high school counselor if she wanted someone to talk to and she said he was a child molester and a creep. (I doubt that's true, but that's what she said.) I also suggested she listen to the spirit to know what's true and to just always remember her dad loves her, that she doesn't need to be caught in the middle, etc. She turned her cell phone off last night so her mom couldn't text her any more which is huge for her because there will be hell to pay for her having done that. When her mom did come for the right pick up time last night, she sat outside honking the horn repeatedly, LAYING on the horn. She had her DH with her and you'd think she'd be ashamed of the fusses she causes, but she's not.

 

[stealth2]

Based on what was posted here, Dad was wrong. Either holiday visitation supercedes the regular schedule or it doesn't. If it does, then no, Dad could not tack another 2 1/2 hours onto his time.

 

[stealth2]

That link doesn't work, either. Though I don't see why it matters.

 

[wileybunch]

Based on what was posted here, Dad was wrong. Either holiday visitation supercedes the regular schedule or it doesn't. If it does, then no, Dad could not tack another 2 1/2 hours onto his time.

Dad didn't tack 2-1/2 hours onto the holiday time, that's time remaining from his 1st weekend time. If it's not, then what would give the other parent that time since it's the first weekend and no longer part of the holiday parenting time?

 

[wileybunch]

That link doesn't work, either. Though I don't see why it matters.

It doesn't matter for a strictly legal Q&A.
If going into a matter of opinion, then it's part of framing what this time was planned for. In the past DH has let her DD go a little early on Sunday for activities, but when deciding between what he had planned for the family vs. the GF's birthday dinner, he said no to the birthday dinner.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Dad is trying to enforce his boundaries. Mom won't ever get it, but if dad gives an inch, mom will run a mile with it.

That dad actually had told her when pickup time was am mom continued with her antics, sorry - no sympathy.

 

[stealth2]

Dad didn't tack 2-1/2 hours onto the holiday time, that's time remaining from his 1st weekend time. If it's not, then what would give the other parent that time since it's the first weekend and no longer part of the holiday parenting time?

It's either the first weekend or holiday time. You don't get to intermingle them. IMO.