husband or sperm donor - part 2

[kalvan]

The old thread was closed. I don't know why. I hope it's ok to continue in a new thread.

...If it were an honest attempt to ecconomically conceive a child through artificial insemination there were a number of other options, nor were you there as a witness or party to these events. You personally don't know what transpired and for all you know there may have been no turkey baster involved and they have in order to protect themselves have agreed on the turkey baster story. Did you give her your blessing in advance of conception? Do you have any idea of the health history of the sperm doner or of your wife? When did you decide to get married before or after conception? At what point, exactly did you decide to force an agreement, up until this point the only contract is verbal as discussed in EC 622-3, so conduct is very inportant in determining the terms of the contract, at this point their conduct is estopped. Remember, until the child was born and DNA confirmed and or until the child turns 18, the bio dad/mother can establish paternity and he may be held responsible for child support etc. You only have 2 years in which to disestablish patenrity, suppose your marriage doesn't work, suppose you move to another state? This could get very complex.

We decided to get married before conception. She did question him on his heath history. While I wasn't physically there for the AI, I was in constant phone contact (I was out of town). She and I even talked when the sperm donor was there before the self insemenation. He left her home before she did the self insemenation.

She made it clear to whom and how? Were you there? There was no valid sperm donor contract.

She thoroughly discussed with the sperm donor that she was only looking for a sperm donor, not coparenting. He admitted to me agreeing to it. (Maybe now his story is different though.) I was not there for their conversations. I felt that I trusted her decision and I didn't especially want to talk with the sperm donor myself. After she became pregnant I met him briefly to confirm to myself that he was as reasonable and nice as my wife said. And he was (or at least he fooled me). He was totally on our side. He happily signed my little agreement paper stating the situation that we all seemed to want.

In California and every other state, there is a concept that the child's best welfare comes first and that is a concept that you and your wife should embrace sooner rather than later. This child has two fathers and one mother at this point, that may change in the future to include others. Both your and his interest in this child may change over time, so at least this child will have someone interested in their well being. We don't even know how a court evaluation will determin fitness if that is a question. By the time you all go through the legal process all of this may change again.

But only one of the fathers has been involved in the life of the mother, me. And only one of the fathers is involved in raising the baby (after conception), me. I plan on being legally an financially responsible for this child. I've been married and raised a kid before.

In addition to legal counsel or mediation available through the Family Law Facilitator's office, I strongly suggest you and your wife seek counseling and come to a peaceful agreement with the Bio dad and all of you love this child who is a blessing. Custody doesn't mean he is trying to take the child away but rather sharing the child.

Sharing the child sounds nice, but it's not that easy. It's hard enough raising a child when the decisions are made just in my home. It seems ridiculous to have to unnecessarily deal with another person (who lives far away and whom we barely know) for the rest of our lives about every aspect of how my son is raised.

We have a lawyer, but I don't think we are willing to sell everything we have to fight this. The sperm donor says he will do whatever it takes, and I believe he has much more than we do.
We have tried to talk this out peacefully, but it seems we are very far from agreement and he seems unwilling to budge. His lawyer tells him he has a "slam dunk" case.
We can't just give in. The law may be on our side. Our lawyer, who is an expert in the field, says it is...

How much money does mediation save? Is there any reason not to do it.
Is there any way to get free defense?

 

[Rushia]

The old thread was closed. I don't know why. I hope it's ok to continue in a new thread.

The only ones who could lock it is either you or the moderators.

She thoroughly discussed with the sperm donor that she was only looking for a sperm donor, not coparenting. He admitted to me agreeing to it. (Maybe now his story is different though.) I was not there for their conversations. I felt that I trusted her decision and I didn't especially want to talk with the sperm donor myself. After she became pregnant I met him briefly to confirm to myself that he was as reasonable and nice as my wife said. And he was (or at least he fooled me). He was totally on our side. He happily signed my little agreement paper stating the situation that we all seemed to want.

What kind of little paper? Did you just show up where he was or did you make an appointment with him?

But only one of the fathers has been involved in the life of the mother, me. And only one of the fathers is involved in raising the baby (after conception), me. I plan on being legally an financially responsible for this child. I've been married and raised a kid before.

If your contract fails:
It doesn't matter if you've been the only one involved in the life of the mother. Many men who only have one night stands are involved to one degree or another with the child created. The only reason the other father is not involved is because you have not allowed it.

Sharing the child sounds nice, but it's not that easy. It's hard enough raising a child when the decisions are made just in my home. It seems ridiculous to have to unnecessarily deal with another person (who lives far away and whom we barely know) for the rest of our lives about every aspect of how my son is raised.

Divorced couples do this everyday. Should your contract be upheld and you and mom divorce, you would be doing this anyway.

 

[kalvan]

What kind of little paper? Did you just show up where he was or did you make an appointment with him?

We all made an appointment to meet. We wrote up an agreement saying I would be the father, he was the sperm donor, and he would have no rights or responsibilities in the raising of the child.

If your contract fails:
It doesn't matter if you've been the only one involved in the life of the mother. Many men who only have one night stands are involved to one degree or another with the child created. The only reason the other father is not involved is because you have not allowed it.

Him not being involved was something we all agreed on (until he changed his mind).

 

[Rushia]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand WHY you didn't do this thru more legal means. It completely baffles me. Had this gone thru the proper legal channels you would not be in this mess. I could probably understand why biodad is saying that he felt pressured to sign it. If two people were sitting across from me demanding that I sign this piece of paper, I might do it too.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

The old thread was closed. I don't know why. I hope it's ok to continue in a new thread.

It is possible if you didn't lock the thread that admin did.

We decided to get married before conception. She did question him on his heath history. While I wasn't physically there for the AI, I was in constant phone contact (I was out of town). She and I even talked when the sperm donor was there before the self insemenation. He left her home before she did the self insemenation.

When did you get married? You were not there, you don't know what happened nor what was said. Was she tracking her cycle or using ovulation monitors? These questions will come up. The problem is that your wife could have found out a great deal of informaiton about AI on the net, including the pitfalls, either you two have been overly thrifty, ignorant and or both, or you are not getting an accurate story. Here is a little blurb from th einternet re this form of AI.
"A "known donor." Many lesbians and single women recruit male friends to provide semen. Some sperm banks will assist such arrangements, running the men through the same battery of medical tests that they use on anonymous donors. "Known donors" present legal obstacles. State laws clearly establish that anonymous donors surrender their parental rights, but known donors don't. A mother needs to draft a careful contract for the known donor to give up paternity rights. According to Marla Eby, vice president for marketing at California Cryobank, many women hope to use a known donor but reconsider when they realize how complicated it is." See this is an element you cannot meet after the fact, there was no contract other than one you produces after the fact and signed under duress.

She thoroughly discussed with the sperm donor that she was only looking for a sperm donor, not coparenting. He admitted to me agreeing to it. (Maybe now his story is different though.) I was not there for their conversations. I felt that I trusted her decision and I didn't especially want to talk with the sperm donor myself. After she became pregnant I met him briefly to confirm to myself that he was as reasonable and nice as my wife said. And he was (or at least he fooled me). He was totally on our side. He happily signed my little agreement paper stating the situation that we all seemed to want.

You were not there, you are not witness to what was said or what was agreed to, with such an important decision between two people planning on sharing their lives together and to have children together, why on earth did you not seek professional infertility assistance? Buying sperm is a bargain, as fertility treatments go. Sperm banks charge anywhere from $120 to $300 for a vial of sperm. You two couldn't afford $300 for conceiving a baby, how much has an attorney cost you since then?

But only one of the fathers has been involved in the life of the mother, me. And only one of the fathers is involved in raising the baby (after conception), me. I plan on being legally an financially responsible for this child. I've been married and raised a kid before.

The father's involvement with the mother doesn't determin paternity and the fact that you have intentionally kept the father from his child has no bearing on paternity or parental rights. You now claim that you want to be responsible for the baby legally and financially, but your past history indicates that you have failed to do that and in fact, that you don't want children at all because you had a vasectomy. You didn't even bother to actively participate in infertility treatments to accomplish conception. The fact that you have had a child before is not relevant to the Biodad's paternal rights.

Sharing the child sounds nice, but it's not that easy. It's hard enough raising a child when the decisions are made just in my home. It seems ridiculous to have to unnecessarily deal with another person (who lives far away and whom we barely know) for the rest of our lives about every aspect of how my son is raised.

These are issues you and your wife should have thoroughly thought out before cutting corners on conception. How do we know that you even have the best interest of this child in mind? From all appearances, the biodad seems to be the only responsible parent here.

We have a lawyer, but I don't think we are willing to sell everything we have to fight this. The sperm donor says he will do whatever it takes, and I believe he has much more than we do.
We have tried to talk this out peacefully, but it seems we are very far from agreement and he seems unwilling to budge. His lawyer tells him he has a "slam dunk" case.
We can't just give in. The law may be on our side. Our lawyer, who is an expert in the field, says it is...

How much money does mediation save? Is there any reason not to do it.
Is there any way to get free defense?

How much is your attorney going to cost you? Is it more than $300?

The biodad seems like he is intent on pursuing his legal rights and you are the ones not willing to compromise for the sake of the child.

His attorney has told him he has a good case and the courts have recognized his standing to bring the paternity case even though you are married to the mother and you are not willing to spend all that it takes to fight it.

Call the FLF office and make your inquiries insofar as costs for mediation. I still suggest counseling for you and your wife.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

We all made an appointment to meet. We wrote up an agreement saying I would be the father, he was the sperm donor, and he would have no rights or responsibilities in the raising of the child.


Him not being involved was something we all agreed on (until he changed his mind).

This was all after the fact and under duress, it doesn't contain the elements of a valid contract for a sperm donor.
edit:
Here is the text of the other thread (now deleted)OP started as the Sperm Donor:

sadfather48
Junior Member

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1
afraid of losing my son
What is the name of your state? California

A single woman and I talked at length about co-parenting a child

I donated sperm to her and by way of a syringe self insemination she got pregnant.

We did this at her home without doctors or lawyers (which I know was stupid, but I trusted her.)

She then informed me she was getting married to a man that wanted to take over as father.

The man she married has had a vasectomy.

Before she gave birth I secured a lawyer and served her with a petition to establish parental relationship. The child was born pre-maturely 5 days after the woman was served and an extension was granted to allow her time to recover from the surgery.

My son is now 1 month old and out of intensive care.

The womans's husband's name is on the birth certificate

I am afraid that I may never be allowed to have a relationship with my child.

Is the law on my side to get parental rights?
sadfather48

#2

Rushia
Member

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: are those flames?!!!
Posts: 784
Same question on the other thread. Who's playing a game here.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=258186
__________________
Disclaimer: Even though people consider me to be "out there", I am not an escaped lunatic.

 

[kalvan]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand WHY you didn't do this thru more legal means. It completely baffles me. Had this gone thru the proper legal channels you would not be in this mess. I could probably understand why biodad is saying that he felt pressured to sign it. If two people were sitting across from me demanding that I sign this piece of paper, I might do it too.

We were stupid.
We heard he had a good reputation and was well liked.
We were afraid of getting lawyers involved.
We all thought we could trust each other.

We did not pressure him to sign an agreement. He said he happily would sign whatever we wrote up. He later said he did this to keep my wife happy because he didn't want her to abort.

 

[Rushia]

We were stupid.
We heard he had a good reputation and was well liked.
We were afraid of getting lawyers involved.
We all thought we could trust each other.

We did not pressure him to sign an agreement. He said he happily would sign whatever we wrote up. He later said he did this to keep my wife happy because he didn't want her to abort.

She finds a friend (acquaintance, no prior relationship together) willing to donate sperm and impregnates herself

I lifted this from your other thread. You seem to contradict yourself. He was a friend of your wife, (at least to some degree) and now you heard he had a good reputation. How do you trust someone you barely know? You should have got the lawyers involved. I'm starting to think that biodad may end up with visitation.

 

[kalvan]

... When did you get married? You were not there, you don't know what happened nor what was said. Was she tracking her cycle or using ovulation monitors? These questions will come up.

We got married about 5 months into the pregnancy.
Before doing the AI, She used one of the drugstore ovulation tests so the wouldn't have to guess about it. Everyone involved knew when it was time to try. The donor donated on 3 successive days around the predicted ovulation and that was all it took.

... Buying sperm is a bargain, as fertility treatments go. Sperm banks charge anywhere from $120 to $300 for a vial of sperm. You two couldn't afford $300 for conceiving a baby, how much has an attorney cost you since then?

I looked into getting a reversal and extracting sperm but the procedures were very expensive, painful and not guaranteed to work. (though they would have been less painful and expensive than this lawsuit). I decided passing on my genetics to my kid was not that important.

...You now claim that you want to be responsible for the baby legally and financially, but your past history indicates that you have failed to do that and in fact, that you don't want children at all because you had a vasectomy.

I am still responsible for my child from previous marriage. I have not failed. It's true I did not want to have any more children with my ex-wife. But new wife convinced me this time would be different and I decided to do it again. Although it is unfortunate that I had a vasectomy, I am happy not to have to worry about birth control, and if I were to have had it successfully reversed, I would also have wanted to have it un-reversed again for that reason. So I was looking at two painful operations, and it was not guaranteed to work. Not only might it not restore my sperm, but she might have not been able to get pregnant easily anyway. She was over 40. We didn't have much time, if it wasn't too late already. We didn't want to take chances of it not working.

... How do we know that you even have the best interest of this child in mind? From all appearances, the biodad seems to be the only responsible parent here.

I see how one could say that. But we have a nice house and a loving home in which to raise a child. I do not believe shuttling a child back and forth between two homes that don't like each other is in the best interest of the child. Even if it is friendly, it is hard on the child. He lives alone, by the way.

 

[legalcuriosity]

The old thread was closed. I don't know why. I hope it's ok to continue in a new thread.

I'll take a hunch on the following reasons:

1. You cross-posted this on multiple forums and disguised one of the threads to be someone you weren't.

2. The thread has run its' course.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

My advice remains the same, you and your wife get some counseling. I have other questions and comments but will leave that to you and your therapist.