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I need help with a paternity question

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Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
snostar said:
Ladies, it is time for me to no longer reply to this thread, I think there has been many valuable perspectives presented, and now if the father files it will be left up to the judge........Have a wonderful day, I know I will. :D
Same here. Off Topic, if you watched the show last night just do a Google, Franky May's. He is here in the bay area and we had a ball watching him. He went to a pool party here with some guy's in the audience after his show.
 


nextwife

Senior Member
I do wish to point out that you are all PRESUMING that acknowledging biodad's paternity will bring a wealth of family medical history to this child's doctor. That may be the case, but it is also the case that many people have little to no genetic history from their families. Biodad may or may not have anything of value to share.

Examples: my husband was born (in Europe) three months AFTER his dad died in military service. His dad's family was estranged from his mom because they had not wanted him to marry her, and he had. He knows NOTHING about his dad's medical history- even his cause of death is useless as medical info because he was shot.

MY grandparents came from Europe and it was just sort of considered "bad luck" to talk about things like cancer, so I have no idea what their family history beyond them may have been.

I know people whose parents were Holocaust survivors (entering the camps very young) who lost entire families. These people also have no family medical history.

MY daughter is adopted from an eastern european orphanage, we have NO family histories at all on either bioparent.

So, while you may all believe that determining paternity will indeed make all sorts of family medical history available, that may not necessarily be the case. It is a false presumption that Dad will indeed have useful genetic info. Maybe, but maybe not. Not all of us do.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Big Cat why did you waste the time to post, you didn't even look at the OP or the law, which is very specific and in this case, the child needs information the BIO dad who ever he is, has. If paternity is established, then there may be both C/S and visitation. OP is hiding something and lying to her child's doctors. This can adversley affect her child's treatment and future.

There is something seriously wrong with this picture.
The law is specific but the law is also assuming that standing has been determined. The OP CAN challenge the bio-father's standing to sue for paternity. You are consistantly ignoring the fact that, in law, standing to bring an action comes first.

Your personal biases are showing here. Whether the mother is morally right or wrong in any of her actions is not relevant to her questions.

She does have the possibility of challenging standing...and a possibility of winning that challenge. It appears that the only basis he has to file for paternity is the fact that he saw her with a child that "might" be of an age to be his biologically....and would be unlikely even to be able to establish that he had a relationship with the mother.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
In my first responses, I focused in on the item having the greatest "weight", the best welfare of the child and their right to have a complete and accurate medical history. A lot of things go into that, "weight" and that is a part of how a judge renders their decision. Depending on certain mandatory factors/elements, not in dispute, as presented in this case, we can fairly accurately predict how the judge will be compelled to rule in the absense of any other compelling reasons, by the "weight" of those elements alone. NO other compelling factors were presented, so most of the arguments otherwise were fuitle and everyone except OP came to the only conclusion the judge could rule, that the bio father can establish his paternity by DNA testing because that is in the best interest of the child to provide for their medical care

I clearley stated, in an early post, what the rights of the bio-father were in regard to paternity in that state. I did that early on, not one 20+ later or links to ones for Texas. It is clear the bio father can request to establish paternity until the child's majority no matter the marital state of either parent, I also clearly stated that, in a marriage the husband is presumed to be the legal father, that still does not take away the bio father's or the child's rights, in other words, all may be true and which would prevail is what the judge considers. I posted the entire text of the law. I then said that once paternity is established, that the bio-parent may also be entitled to certain rights which might include child support and visitation. Keeping the child's best interst in mind I explained how those possibilities might be implemented in a way to be beneficial to the child and their family.

I never said how the judge would rule, aside from the fact that the child's best welfare will have the greatest weight, something everyone agreed upon. The actions of the mother in this instance have already had a potential negative impact on the child by lying to the child's physicians. This is further compounded by her secrecacy and claims that this will upset the balance in their stable home where the husband is aware of the facts of the child's conception, based on her claims of a "one night stand" during a brief marital separation and contact with an old BF. So the alledged bio father is no stranger, she has had a relationship off and on over the years, apparnetly prior to marriage, during separation, and in the community since the birth of the child, he still emails her. It sounds less like the best interest of her child and more what she is hiding from both her husband and the child's physicians, that are the basis of her reluctance to settle the matter of paternity and is creating stress. I gave her the facts of the laws for paternity, not how to fight it because she basically had no grounds.

She has not returned after admitting she lied about her child's medical history to their physicians. She stands to lose a lot once her web of lies starts to unravel. I also suggested she start by being honest with her child's physicians once she admitted lying to them, this is reasonable. To do this, paternity must be established by DNA, it could be done privately without a court order, which might set into play, C/S and visitation, because it does no more good for the child, to give another family medical history, if it is also false. Once admitting her lies, a physician would want clear and conviencing proof of paternity before preceeding, they could in fact, petition the court on behalf of the child if the mother refused. Her deception in regard to the child's medical history could be termed "child abuse", especially since the child is disabled.

OP's concern that the child would regress regarding the child's potential contact with the bio father were not congruent with the facts she presented, that set off a "red flag". If their marriage does not survive, husband will be petitioning to establish paternity by DNA in a flash and possibly petitioning for custody and or more based on OP's history of deception. Alabama is one of the states where Adultery is one of the grounds for divorce, this MAY affect aspects of divorce and ensuing issues. Me thinks this is the isue, not contact with the real bio-father who ever he is. Here are the Alabama divorce laws to consider:

LEGAL GROUNDS FOR DIVORCE: No-Fault: (1) Irretrievable breakdown of the marriage; (2) complete incompatibility of temperament such that the parties can no longer live together; (3) voluntary separation for over 1 year. [Code of Alabama; Title 30, Chapter 2-1].

General: (1) Adultery; (2) living separate and apart without cohabitation for over 2 years without the husband supporting the wife (divorce must be filed by wife); (3) imprisonment (for over 2 years if the total sentence is over 7 years); (4) unnatural sexual behavior before or after the marriage; (5) alcoholism; (6) drug abuse; (7) confinement for incurable insanity for over 5 years; (8) wife pregnant by another at the time of the marriage without the husband's knowledge; (9) physical abuse or reasonable fear of physical abuse; (10) lack of physical ability to consummate marriage. [Code of Alabama; Title 30, Chapters 2-1 and 2-2].

SIMPLIFIED OR SPECIAL DIVORCE PROCEDURES: There is no legal provision in Alabama for summary divorce. In addition, specific evidence must be presented at a court hearing to support a default judgment in a divorce case. However, acceptance and waiver of service is allowed if signed by the defendant and a credible witness. There is a 30-day waiting period after the filing of the summons and complaint before a judge may issue a final judgment of divorce. Testimony in uncontested divorces may be taken before a court clerk, by sworn statements, or by transcripts of oral depositions. A standardized Child Support Guidelines form and Child Support Income Statement/Affidavit must be filed in every case in which child support is requested. [Code of Alabama: Title 30, Chapter 2-8.1; Alabama Rules of Civil Procedure; Rules 4, 43(a), 53, and 55 and Alabama Rules of Judicial Administration: Rule 32].

MEDIATION OR COUNSELING REQUIREMENTS: There is no legal provision in Alabama for mediation.

PROPERTY DISTRIBUTION: There is no statutory provision in Alabama for property division. Under Alabama case law, Alabama is an "equitable distribution" state and the judge has full discretion to divide any jointly-owned real estate or personal property, but does not have the authority to award the wife's separate property to the husband (regardless of whether the wife's separate property was obtained before or after the marriage). Gifts and inheritances are considered separate property and are not subject to division unless they have been used for the common benefit of both spouses. The property division need not necessarily be exactly equal, but it must be equitable. Marital fault may be considered in the division of property. [Alabama Case Law].

ALIMONY/MAINTENANCE/SPOUSAL SUPPORT: The judge has full discretion to award an allowance for maintenance to either spouse, if such spouse has insufficient property to provide for his or her own maintenance. This award may be made out of the property belonging to the other spouse, unless it is separate property (acquired by gift or inheritance, or acquired prior to the marriage) and was never used for the common benefit of the marriage. The factors to be considered are: (1) the value of the estate of both spouses; and (2) the condition of the spouse's family. Up to 50% of a spouse's retirement benefits may be used for alimony if the retirement was accumulated during a marriage of 10 years or more. Misconduct of either spouse may be considered in the determination as to whether to award maintenance and may totally bar the right to any maintenance. Any award of maintenance will be terminated if the recipient is living openly with a member of the opposite sex or has remarried. [Code of Alabama: Title 30, Chapters 2-51, 2-52, and 2-55].
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Here are the child custody laws for Alabama for this case:
CHILD CUSTODY: Custody of any children of the marriage may be granted to either parent. Factors to be considered are: (1) the age and sex of the child; (2) the safety and well-being of the child; and (3) the moral character of the parents. The wishes of the child are also a factor to be considered. There is a legal presumption against giving custody to any person who has inflicted any violence against either a spouse or a child. In abuse cases, the judge is required to consider any history of domestic abuse and may not consider the fact that a parent or spouse has relocated to avoid abuse. Alabama officially favors joint custody (but not equal physical custody) if in the best interests of the child and the parents agree. Factors to be considered are: (1) parental custody agreement; (2) parental cooperation; (3) parental ability to encourage love and sharing; (4) any history of abuse; and (5) geographic proximity of parents. Joint custody may be awarded. However, if the wife abandons the husband and the children are over 7 years old, the husband is granted custody if he is suitable. Grandparents may be given visitation rights. [Code of Alabama: Title 30, Chapters 3-1 to 3-200; and Alabama Case Law].

CHILD SUPPORT: The court may order either parent to provide child support. There are official Child Support Guidelines contained in the Alabama Rules of Judicial Administration: Rule 32. These guidelines are presumed to be correct unless there is a showing that the amount would be unjust or inappropriate under the particular circumstances of a case. A written agreement between the parents for a different amount with a reasonable explanation for the deviation from the guidelines will also be allowed. A standardized Child Support Guidelines form and Child Support Income Statement/Affidavit must be filed in every case in which child support is requested. There is also a procedure for expedited processing in child support cases. Alabama driver's licenses may be suspended for failure to pay child support. [Code of Alabama: Title 30, Chapters 3-1 and 3-200 and Alabama Rules of Judicial Administration: Rules 32 and 35].
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
nextwife said:
I do wish to point out that you are all PRESUMING that acknowledging biodad's paternity will bring a wealth of family medical history to this child's doctor. That may be the case, but it is also the case that many people have little to no genetic history from their families. Biodad may or may not have anything of value to share.

So, while you may all believe that determining paternity will indeed make all sorts of family medical history available, that may not necessarily be the case. It is a false presumption that Dad will indeed have useful genetic info. Maybe, but maybe not. Not all of us do.
The child has a genetically related disorder, even in the abence of a family medical history beyond the bio dad, who ever he is. If it is the man reported, then he is alive and his medical history available and even his DNA will possibly hold answers to questions to more than just the one genetic disorder identified, which could greatly affect his future treatment. It is more than just potential medical history, I used that term in a general fashion.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
The law is specific but the law is also assuming that standing has been determined. The OP CAN challenge the bio-father's standing to sue for paternity. You are consistantly ignoring the fact that, in law, standing to bring an action comes first.

Your personal biases are showing here. Whether the mother is morally right or wrong in any of her actions is not relevant to her questions.

She does have the possibility of challenging standing...and a possibility of winning that challenge. It appears that the only basis he has to file for paternity is the fact that he saw her with a child that "might" be of an age to be his biologically....and would be unlikely even to be able to establish that he had a relationship with the mother.
I admit my bias is for justice under the rule of law and to truthfully and accurately act in accordance with the law, especially when the best interest of children or other protected classes are at issue, that bias is congruent with public policy.

Please cite for me where OP has more standing to lie to the court which is what she would have to do to challenge the BIO Father?

Please cite for me where the best interests of the child, including the additional interest of a protected child with a disability, have less standing than her right to lie or deny access to the child's medical history?

Intentionally lying to the physicians is child abuse, please cite to me how this gives her more standing.

Sure she can oppose the bio dad and if the judge doesn't see through the web of lies and fails to consider the best interest of the child, the bio dad could appeal or simply report the child abuse to CPS and they will have standing with the court. He could request a Guardian ad Litem for the child, actually the judge may end up doing that as well.
 
S

SkrewBall

Guest
Think this through from bio-father's point of view

It always kills me that women assume some greater right to a child than the father has, just because we give birth. So what if it took him 3 years to file papers. Perhaps he didn't think your child was his until he ran into you. Maybe he thought that leaving you alone to figure things out for your family was best, but has now decidedd he wants a relationship with HIS child. You cannot assume that he is unable to handle a disabled child, just because it will disrupt the lie you have been living for three years. Are your concerns really for the child, or are you worried about how it will look to everyone when they find out. Please dont'think I'm being insulting here. It is just that often we think we are readting because of one thing, when in reality it is an entirely different thing that is causing our panic over things. You know this man, or you did three years ago. Is he a bad person? Really? If you handle the situation with concern for EVERYONE involved, and like an adult, there is no reason this man cannot be slowly integrated into your child's life. A child with disabilities has a rough road ahead of it. Having extra people who love him and want to be part of his life and part of his support system can only be beneficial to him in the long run. Don't try to make an end run around his paternity, just to preserve your lie. allow him to know his father, and his father to know him. Often times, adversity brings out the best in people. There is a chance it will in his bio father as well, and you will have an extra person to help with the difficulties you face every day with this special boy.
 

snostar

Senior Member
BigCat50 said:
To Snostar, I always enjoy your posts. A topic such as this with very old "*******y" laws being applied to newer, lower (or perhaps just different?) levels of morality always invites debate. That's a good thing, yes? We'll all be smarter in the end.
Thanks! :D I can't debate the morals on this issue because I completely disagree with this posters actions. We don't know that the biofather is aware of the child's condition, we don't know that he has ever seen this child, for all we know he may have heard it through the grapevine. In that event, the medical condition may not even be presented in a paternity suit. I've have one email account almost ten years which I still use. The fact that this man emailed her does not convince me they have been in contact since the child was conceived. We have no idea what this man will present to the court if he files for paternity. The mother is not seeking support and neither is the state. This poster does have grounds to refuse a DNA: this child was born and conceived inside a marriage, the posters husband is presumed the legal father, the Right of Privacy precedes an “intrusive” procedure such as a DNA test. Of course he can file and a judge may order a test, but my opinion is based on the facts presented and numerous replies by respected attorneys on this forum.

Paridise- Did you go for a swim? I'll watch the finals on Comedy Central. I found nothing on him in google or yahoo. The name rings a bell, but I can't yet put a face to the name.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Amommyx03 said:
child chiari isn't genetic...doctor has said so...i have not contacted xbf for anything. he seen me with the child and then started this crap...
Is it possible that the doctor has said this BECAUSE s/he (unknowingly) doesn't have an accurate family medical history?
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
stealth2 said:
Is it possible that the doctor has said this BECAUSE s/he (unknowingly) doesn't have an accurate family medical history?
That'a exactly right. The doctor without the accurate medical history would be left to assume that this was an anomoly when it is a known genetic disorder. OP posted 4 times, two times stating that she gives her husband's medical history, "only r parents know that hubby isn't the father. all doctors go by hubby and i's medical history." and "We tell doctors of husband and mine medical history for said child."

We don't even know if the husband knows this, how reliable is the use of the term, "WE" here? She may, as the primary caregiver have most contact with the doctors and the husband assume she is giving the doctors the truth and believe everything she relays to him.

She is avoiding the truth for some reason the most obvious of which is that the alledged bio-dad is not which puts her Marriage and family at risk and or "Factitious Disorder by Proxy - Munchausen Syndrome by proxy" This is sometimes seen in parents of disabled children who may exploit the child's disability for their own purposes. If that is the case here it is best for intervention sooner as opposed to later, I for one hope the alledged bio dad files to establish paternity if she doesn't admit to the doctors that she had been giving a false medical history.

The major feature of Factitious Disorder by Proxy is the deliberate production or feigning of physical or psychological symptoms in another person who is under that individual's care. Intentionally giving an inaccurate medical history would qualify and this would also affect treatment. The motive for the perpetrator's behavior is thought to be a psychological need to assume the sick role by proxy, and gain sympathy for their role as the caregiver and devoted parent. External incentives such as money are not present as in this case as she can't sue for malpractice for a genetic or congenital disorder, and she doesn't even want additional child support which might be ordered if she reveals the bio-dad. The perpetrator simulates the illness in the victim and then takes the victim for medical care while denying any knowledge about the cause of the problem, in this case false medical history and we don't know what else she is doing. The type and severity depend on the amount of medical knowledge on the part of the perpetrator. Some of the signs of Factitious Disorder by Proxy are:
Life stressors such as martial conflict;
Perpetrators may exhibit pathological lying in describing daily events and when presenting the victim for medical care.
Commonly have knowledge in health related areas and may thrive in a medical environment.
They often seem insufficiently concerned about the victim's medical condition.
Associated Features:
Equal distribution between males and females.
High incidence of unexplained sibling mortality.
Disorder may be present in more than one child at a time, or serially enmeshed family with marital dysfunction, substance and sexual abuse
Older children may engage in symptom collusion
Differential Diagnosis:
Some disorders have similar symptoms. The clinician, therefore, in his diagnostic attempt, has to differentiate against the following disorders which need to be ruled out to establish a precise diagnosis.
The perpetrator may become depressed or suicidal when confronted with consequences of their behavior. The perpetrator usually focuses on one victim at a time; however, other individuals may have been or might be victims. Other aspects to be considered are:
Real Medical illnesses
Overanxious Parenting
Normal Variability between illnesses
Illnesses resulting from discontinuation of medicines
Malingering (by an older child)
Cause:
Little is currently known about the etiology or psychopathology of factitious disorders with physical or psychological symptoms. Besides the difficulties involving the diagnosis, reluctance of those patients to undergone psychological testing and heterogeneity in details of cases published in literature are at the origin of this situation.

Many hypotheses have been developed try to explain factitious disorder. Some clinicians have remarked that patients with factitious disorder often present traumatic events particularly abuse and deprivation and numerous hospitalizations in childhood and as adults lack support from relatives and/or friends. Others consider that factitious disorder allows patients to feel in control as they never felt in childhood.

From a behavioral point of view factitious disorder is regarded as a coping mechanism, learned and reinforced in childhood.

Treatment:

Provide medical and psychological care as needed to treat comorbid conditions and complications arising.

Counseling and Psychotherapy
Psychotherapy should focus on establishing and maintaining a relationship with the patient. Supportive psychotherapy may help contain the symptoms of FD. Family therapy may help families to better understand patients and their need for attention. Cognitive-behavioral therapy may prove difficult when patients are unable to form a collaborative team, such as with comorbid antisocial personality disorder.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I admit my bias is for justice under the rule of law and to truthfully and accurately act in accordance with the law, especially when the best interest of children or other protected classes are at issue, that bias is congruent with public policy.

Please cite for me where OP has more standing to lie to the court which is what she would have to do to challenge the BIO Father?


She does not have to lie to the court to challenge standing.


Please cite for me where the best interests of the child, including the additional interest of a protected child with a disability, have less standing than her right to lie or deny access to the child's medical history?


You are assuming that the best interest of the child is to be involved with the biological father and that the medical history is vital. You may or may not be wrong there, but the child does have an established and solid family (such as an adopted child might have..many of them don't have medical history either) and none of us know whether it would make the child's life better to have the biological father involved or not.



Intentionally lying to the physicians is child abuse, please cite to me how this gives her more standing.


I do not believe that anywhere in any state's statutes is it defined as child abuse not to tell a physician who the biological father of a child is. Its your personal opinion that that is abuse. I don't know what you are trying to say by "more standing". We aren't talking about her "standing", we are talking about her challenging the biological father's standing to sue for paternity.



Sure she can oppose the bio dad and if the judge doesn't see through the web of lies and fails to consider the best interest of the child, the bio dad could appeal or simply report the child abuse to CPS and they will have standing with the court. He could request a Guardian ad Litem for the child, actually the judge may end up doing that as well.


If the mother were to successfully challenge standing the bio father could appeal that. (no guarantee he would win but he could appeal) However a judge would NOT be able to appoint a GAL or make any other orders/rulings or even HEAR any testimony after a successful challenge to standing. That ends the case entirely unless overturned by a higher court. There is no REPORTABLE child abuse going on in this case. You believe it is abuse, but your belief doesn't make it abuse from a legal standpoint.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
stealth2 said:
Is it possible that the doctor has said this BECAUSE s/he (unknowingly) doesn't have an accurate family medical history?
I doubt it. A disease is either genetic or isn't. I doubt that a doctor would say that something isn't genetic if there was any possibility that it was. A doctor could possibly misdiagnose something without accurate medical history...but it sounds like the child has been under a doctor's care for this long enough that the doctor would have looked into it deeply enough that a misdiagnosis would be unlikely.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
LdiJ said:
I doubt it. A disease is either genetic or isn't. I doubt that a doctor would say that something isn't genetic if there was any possibility that it was. A doctor could possibly misdiagnose something without accurate medical history...but it sounds like the child has been under a doctor's care for this long enough that the doctor would have looked into it deeply enough that a misdiagnosis would be unlikely.
Actually, it hasn't been scientifically proven either way, according to the links I was looking at. It's possible that some cases are and some aren't - without a family history showing such an abnormality, the doctor would reasonably assume it is NOT genetic. But... does b/f have a family history of such an abnormality? Does anyoen know? Does AMommy know him well enough to know what his family history might (or might not) show?
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
snostar said:
Thanks! :D I can't debate the morals on this issue because I completely disagree with this posters actions. We don't know that the biofather is aware of the child's condition, we don't know that he has ever seen this child, Wrong, OP states that he has seen the child, that is what prompted his assertion to establish paternity and if he is found to be the father the court may order child support and visitation. How could more support and accurate medical history be bad for her child? OP states:"Well recently i received an email from 1 night stand saying he is going to file with courts for paternity test." and "i have not contacted xbf for anything. he seen me with the child and then started this crap"...Why is she threatened by this?
for all we know he may have heard it through the grapevine. An assumption not supported by OP's own statement, granted everything OP has stated is susspect at this point!
In that event, the medical condition may not even be presented in a paternity suit. Don't worry it will be because at least she will bring up that she is a beleagered caregiver for sympathy! I've have one email account almost ten years which I still use. The fact that this man emailed her does not convince me they have been in contact since the child was conceived. OP stated he had seen the child and then contacted her by email and his plan to establish paternity.
We have no idea what this man will present to the court if he files for paternity. What does it matter they had a relationship prior to marriage and during separation, he can petition.
The mother is not seeking support and neither is the state. Because the state doesn't know there is another father, because she has lied, that is intentional fraud, once paternity is established the court will be compelled to address the issues of C/S and visitation see previous posts about the laws re paternity. eg " Paternity Cases
* When the court establishes paternity, it must also issue an order addressing support, medical support and an order for Income Withholding. In such cases, the court may also decide other issues such as child custody, visitation, court costs and genetic testing costs. The Department of Human Resources and the State's attorney, however, can only address matters of child support." Just because you believe something else doesn't change the letter or spirit of the law

This poster does (the word should be MAY) have grounds to refuse a DNA: this child was born and conceived inside a marriage, the posters husband is presumed the legal father, the Right of Privacy precedes an “intrusive” procedure such as a DNA test (But her child's right to an accurate medical history in light of their disability superceeds her right to privacy and it is the state's duty to protect her child's right. Her refusal of the DNA test could result in removal of the child from her care!). Of course he can file and a judge may order a test, but my opinion is based on the facts presented (Which you incorrectly cite) and numerous replies by respected attorneys on this forum.(Which replies by which attorneys?)
Snostar, again, you need to separate your own personal bias from the issue. Although you don't condone their actions of OP, you still base your arguments on assumptions and misciteing the facts presented. If she consults an attorney and she tells them her husband is not the bio-father, they will be obliged to advise her to submit to the DNA test for reason that are obvious. Most likely she will not consult an attorney and go to court on her own. The biggest variable will be the alledged bio-dad's actually following through with his assertion of paternity, for if he is found to be the father it will cost him financially. This is a family in serious need of an intervention
 

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