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Infant Visitation

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gramommy

Junior Member
A little background if I may...
I live in the state of Tennessee. My teenage daughter had a baby at 16 years old. She just turned 17. The 20 year old father (no I didn't prosecute) never emotionally supported my daughter during the pregnancy or after the baby boy was born. She is still in high school. He is in the Navy Reserves. We filled out paperwork for Maximus to seek child support from him. (a slow process) We have allowed him to see the baby anytime he wants to, which is not as often as he should in my opinion in order for the baby (5 months old) to develop a bond. We have allowed over night visitation. I have noticed when the baby comes home, he seems "different" for a day or so. (clingy and/or whiney) I wonder if he (baby)feels as if the babydaddy and whoever he stays with when he has the baby seem like strangers to him or if he remembers them. The babydaddy's mother is precious, as is his sister. I think the babydaddy loves the baby... or seems to, but he is very much a 20 year old kid that jumps between girlfriends and parties quite a bit. He might see him every 3 to 4 weeks and then we take the baby half way to meet him or whoever picks the baby up and we pick him back up. (the daddy lives about 40 miles away from us)
OK....
What in everyone's opinion is best for the baby? Should I seek an attorney? From what I understand in the state of Tenn an unwed mother has full custody of the baby. BUT there is no set visitation of course because we have not gone to court. Should we "allow" over nights at this age? Should visitation be supervised or only in a stable environment such as the babydaddy's Mom's house?? My goal is what is best for the baby and healthy for the baby. I am really concerned and appreciate any advice.
gramommy
 
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gramommy

Junior Member
clarify

my name on this forum is gramommy. I am the grandmother...and we (my daughter who is 17 and myself who is 46) often call the father of the baby "babydaddy". It was not an attempt to make a joke, just to clarify who I was referring to. I am seeking real advice, not trying to be funny.
 

CourtClerk

Senior Member
A little background if I may...
I live in the state of Tennessee. My teenage daughter had a baby at 16 years old. She just turned 17. The 20 year old father (no I didn't prosecute) never emotionally supported my daughter during the pregnancy or after the baby boy was born.
He is not legally obligated to provide emotional support to her. If she wanted emotional support, then she should have gotten married or gotten it from her parents. Other than that, she's just some girl that got knocked up.
She is still in high school.
Good, she should stay there. Education is important.
He is in the Navy Reserves.
At least he has a job...
We filled out paperwork for Maximus to seek child support from him.
(a slow process)
WE don't have a right to child support from him. Your daughter does, as the only parents this child has is mom and dad. Nothing more, nothing less. Get this we out of your vocabulary right now.
We have allowed him to see the baby anytime he wants to,
We don't have the right to allow him to do anything.... because we don't have a child. Your daughter has one.
which is not as often as he should in my opinion in order for the baby (5 months old) to develop a bond.
Quite honestly, your opinion doesn't matter.... legally
We have allowed over night visitation.
Here we go with this we again. You want his money, he should be allowed to spend at least as much time with his child as your daughter spends.
I have noticed when the baby comes home, he seems "different" for a day or so. (clingy and/or whiney)
Yeah, well it happens. Happens when children go to daycare as well.
I wonder if he (baby)feels as if the babydaddy
Lets show some respect for the man... father, dad.
and whoever he stays with when he has the baby seem like strangers to him or if he remembers them.
This is the life your daughter chose for her child, now she has to deal with it.
The babydaddy's mother is precious, as is his sister.
Grandmother and aunt. Or do you want to cheapen yourself by being the babymomma's momma?
I think the babydaddy loves the baby...
Your thoughts, again, are irrelevant... and he's the child's FATHER.
or seems to, but he is very much a 20 year old kid that jumps between girlfriends and parties quite a bit.
And your daughter was a 16 year old girl jumping in at least 1 bed and it won't be her last... your point?
He might see him every 3 to 4 weeks and then we take the baby half way to meet him or whoever picks the baby up and we pick him back up. (the daddy lives about 40 miles away from us)
and?
OK....
What in everyone's opinion is best for the baby?
What's best for the baby is that the PARENTS of the baby learn to deal with each other in an effective coparenting situation ABSENT all third parties, which includes YOU. Your child acted as an adult when she spread her legs, now she gets to act as an adult the rest of her life.
Should I seek an attorney?
You don't have standing to seek an attorney. You have no dog in this fight.
From what I understand in the state of Tenn an unwed mother has full custody of the baby.
That's right... an UNWED MOTHER. Notice it said nothing about grandparents.
BUT there is no set visitation of course because we have not gone to court.
WE aren't going to court even if this goes to court. You'll be sitting in the hallway.
Should we "allow" over nights at this age?
Does your daughter get over nights?
Should visitation be supervised or only in a stable environment such as the babydaddy's Mom's house??
There's nothing you've said that demands supervised visitation, and even if there was, YOU can't order supervised visitation. Only a court can... and you are not and will not be a party to that court case if it comes to that.
My goal is what is best for the baby and healthy for the baby. I am really concerned and appreciate any advice.
gramommy
What is best for the baby is that he/she was born to mature, stable adult parents, however, since that didn't happen, you have to deal with what is now.
 

wileybunch

Senior Member
I'm guessing CourtClerk's reaction was to the immaturity of a grandmother (who should be modeling good behavior, setting a good example) to be using such a term. (I agree)

He is simply "Dad".
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
A little background if I may...
I live in the state of Tennessee. My teenage daughter had a baby at 16 years old. She just turned 17. The 20 year old father (no I didn't prosecute) never emotionally supported my daughter during the pregnancy or after the baby boy was born. She is still in high school. He is in the Navy Reserves. We filled out paperwork for Maximus to seek child support from him. (a slow process) We have allowed him to see the baby anytime he wants to, which is not as often as he should in my opinion in order for the baby (5 months old) to develop a bond. We have allowed over night visitation. I have noticed when the baby comes home, he seems "different" for a day or so. (clingy and/or whiney) I wonder if he (baby)feels as if the babydaddy and whoever he stays with when he has the baby seem like strangers to him or if he remembers them. The babydaddy's mother is precious, as is his sister. I think the babydaddy loves the baby... or seems to, but he is very much a 20 year old kid that jumps between girlfriends and parties quite a bit. He might see him every 3 to 4 weeks and then we take the baby half way to meet him or whoever picks the baby up and we pick him back up. (the daddy lives about 40 miles away from us)
OK....
What in everyone's opinion is best for the baby? Should I seek an attorney? From what I understand in the state of Tenn an unwed mother has full custody of the baby. BUT there is no set visitation of course because we have not gone to court. Should we "allow" over nights at this age? Should visitation be supervised or only in a stable environment such as the babydaddy's Mom's house?? My goal is what is best for the baby and healthy for the baby. I am really concerned and appreciate any advice.
gramommy
How long have the overnights been going on and how frequent have they been? At 5 months the baby cannot "process" what is going on and probably does not remember the father if he is going 3-4 weeks without a visit.

If there could be more interaction with dad, while mom or someone else that the child is also familiar with are present, the baby might adjust better.

40 miles is not so far that there couldn't be some visits where mom and dad interact for a while, or even mom and the paternal grandmother. Meeting half way is normally very fair, but maybe one of the parties needs to drive the whole way at the beginning, and interact with the other family for a while, and the the one drive the whole way at the end, and again interact with the other family for a while.
 

gramommy

Junior Member
Alrighty then...

~big deep breath~
ok the "Dad" it is. :rolleyes:

I say "we" because I was posting the question and she is the mom and we are in this together until she moves out on her own and even then I am here to support her as is the rest of her family and part of his family...so it is "we". As far as him not being legally obligated to provide emotional support... well "Duh", I was just attempting to shed light on the situation thus far. We were informed through the child support office that she can't sue him for child support that I have to do it...so this is very much a "we" situation.
I am here to ask advice, not be condemned. I see from the "newbies read this before you post statement" that people should be who they are and not pretend to be who they are not. I am not a meddling grandmother who is out to condemn the the father of the child, and set myself in the place of them mom. We would love for him to do the right thing, and have tried to make it easy to be part of the babies life. I personally have 4 children, and my 17 year old is the youngest, so I am way over wanting a baby to complete my life.... I am certain there are those that post here that are looking for someone to uphold their bad behavior in child custody situations, but I want some real advice, not an attack on the way I word my post. Maybe you are assuming I do not want the father in the babies life, I very much do, but consistently and healthily (is that a word?). I do not have to condemn the father or even talk negatively about him, he doesnt need help to show he is not being the best person right now, he does that without anyone's help.
The ideal situation would be that he realize his responsibilities and help my daughter raise this baby. That doesnt seem to be happening right now. Since my daughter is in high school my husband and I are the ones funding the raising of this child and he and I are the ones who would pay for an attorney. I have a child support hearing this Friday and it is me vs him on the subpoena not my daughter. Since she is under age the child support office said it has to be one her of parents to sue him for support.

Now my original question (now edited) was:

What in everyone's opinion is best for the baby?
Should I (we/she/us) seek an attorney? If we don't then, can my daughter just let him see the baby in the situations she sees as best? Should she "allow" over nights at this age? Should visitation be supervised or only in a stable environment such as the paternal grandmother's house?? Our goal is what is best for the baby and healthiest emotionally for the baby.
I am really concerned and appreciate any real advice, not my post being attacked and picked apart over semantics.
 
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TheGeekess

Keeper of the Kraken
~big deep breath~
ok the "Dad" it is. :rolleyes:

I say "we" because I was posting the question and she is the mom and we are in this together until she moves out on her own and even then I am here to support her as is the rest of her family and part of his family...so it is "we". As far as him not being legally obligated to provide emotional support... well "Duh", I was just attempting to shed light on the situation thus far. We were informed through the child support office that she can't sue him for child support that I have to do it...so this is very much a "we" situation.
I am here to ask advice, not be condemned. I see from the "newbies read this before you post statement" that people should be who they are and not pretend to be who they are not. I am not a meddling grandmother who is out to condemn the the father of the child, and set myself in the place of them mom. We would love for him to do the right thing, and have tried to make it easy to be part of the babies life. I personally have 4 children, and my 17 year old is the youngest, so I am way over wanting a baby to complete my life.... I am certain there are those that post here that are looking for someone to uphold their bad behavior in child custody situations, but I want some real advice, not an attack on the way I word my post. Maybe you are assuming I do not want the father in the babies life, I very much do, but consistently and healthily (is that a word?). I do not have to condemn the father or even talk negatively about him, he doesnt need help to show he is not being the best person right now, he does that without anyone's help.
The ideal situation would be that he realize his responsibilities and help my daughter raise this baby. That doesnt seem to be happening right now. Since my daughter is in high school my husband and I are the ones funding the raising of this child and he and I are the ones who would pay for an attorney. I have a child support hearing this Friday and it is me vs him on the subpoena not my daughter. Since she is under age the child support office said it has to be one her of parents to sue him for support.

Now my original question (now edited) was:

What in everyone's opinion is best for the baby?
Should I (we/she/us) seek an attorney? If we don't then, can my daughter just let him see the baby in the situations she sees as best? Should she "allow" over nights at this age? Should visitation be supervised or only in a stable environment such as the paternal grandmother's house?? Our goal is what is best for the baby and healthiest emotionally for the baby.
I am really concerned and appreciate any real advice, not my post being attacked and picked apart over semantics.
You are a legal stranger. :rolleyes: The only ones involved in this are Mom, Dad and Baby in the middle.

Semantics do matter in court, no matter what you think.

Mom needs to step up to the plate and do her own work. I've not ever heard of a state refusing a minor CS enforcement for said minor's child.
Tennessee Department of Human Services
 

gramommy

Junior Member
try again

My being a legal novice is irrelevent here. It's actually why I came to this forum to get some questions answered and was much picked apart and had people assume they knew about the situation and assumed that I am strong arming the Dad and trying to exclude him from this childs life. I assure you quite the opposite is true. It seems that no matter what the Dad is offered as far as visiting, or begged to visit, he doesnt want to be part of this childs life, until his mother makes him feel guilty or until he wants to show him off to a different girlfriend, so far that has meant he sees the baby about every 4-6 weeks. She even sends him photos and videos periodically.

If he wants this baby over night again he will have to take my daughter to court because at that rate of visitation the baby does not know who he is. That makes them insecure maybe even scared. He has been offered to come by daily if he wishes to, he never does.
Sending any child to be with a stranger is traumatic. (babies/children get to know day care workers) How many of you would send your 3 year old to hang out with a father/mother they had never seen but a few times in their lives, unless it was court ordered? It's the same situation here. He refuses to come by very often, and doesn't even come by when we take the baby to his mothers house for her to visit with him. When we found a baby sitter, we went there everyday for about a week prior to leaving him for the first time, and allowed them to get to know one another.

An attorney told us; in Hamilton County Tennessee, NCP are not awarded over night visits with infants unless the NCP can be shown to be as interested in the child as the CP. So far that has not been an issue.

The pediatrician recommends until the baby is older that the NCP visit in the babies environment, or the CP go to the NCPs house to allow visitation. If the NCP comes often enough that the baby bonds, then it would be ok to take the baby out of his environment without the CP. (this would hold true no matter which person was the NCP)
 

gramommy

Junior Member
You are a legal stranger. :rolleyes: The only ones involved in this are Mom, Dad and Baby in the middle.

Semantics do matter in court, no matter what you think.

Mom needs to step up to the plate and do her own work. I've not ever heard of a state refusing a minor CS enforcement for said minor's child.
Tennessee Department of Human Services
When my daughter filled out paperwork in Hamilton County Tennessee, they returned the paperwork to her and stated that her parent had to sue for CS, until she turned 18. I go Friday am, for a hearing.
 

TheGeekess

Keeper of the Kraken
Legal Stranger means that you have no more right to this child than my chicken-house owning neighbor.

From the TENNESSEE STATE CHILD SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT AGENCY HANDBOOK (adopted DECEMBER, 2008):

Any parent or caretaker of a child who needs help with these services can apply, free of charge, at their local child support office. A list of local child support offices in Tennessee is located in the back of this book.
There are limits to the services provided by your local support office. Child support offices cannot perform the following services:
a) Handle custody or visitation disputes.
b) Handle restraining orders, protective orders, or harassment
issues.
- Since anyone in the state may apply for services, the agency may provide services to others whose interests may be opposed to your own.
http://www.tennessee.gov/humanserv/cs/cs_handbook.pdf

Let me allow you to crawl through this documentation (because I have and don't feel like cutting and pasting anymore :cool:). Just so you do know, there is no mention of a minor parent not being able to file for child support for said minor's child.
 
my name on this forum is gramommy. I am the grandmother...and we (my daughter who is 17 and myself who is 46) often call the father of the baby "babydaddy". It was not an attempt to make a joke, just to clarify who I was referring to. I am seeking real advice, not trying to be funny.

Classy.

FATHER is the appropriate term and its LESS LETTERS than 'babydaddy". If you used father, we would all be quite clear about whom you were speaking.

You obviously look down on this guy for your perceived notions of what he isnt doing right....but you have a teenage, unwed 'babymama'...you probably shouldnt be looking down your nose at him but rather doing something about your irresponsible daughter.

If you do a little research, your 'babymama' daughter is at a much higher risk than other females who dont have babies as teens for screwing up her life further by having more out of wedlock babies, has a higher risk of ending up on welfare, and a higher risk of not getting an education, etc. etc. etc.

Stop worrying so much about how much dad sees his kid and start worrying about parenting your child and keeping a closer eye on her.

I'm not sure how true it is that she cant file for support, but why not file for support and for a parenting plan and then keep your nose OUT of it?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Grandma, I do understand where you are coming from.

Apparently in TN you have some responsibility (ie the child support filing) that is a bit different than in other states.

I also understand that you are attempting to handle things in a manner that is "in the best interest of the child"...and very much agree with the points that you are making, and also understand that you are not attempting to keep dad out of the child's life.

I also do understand that dad does not apparently have much interest at this point...and has clearly not bonded with the child (or dad wouldn't be able to handle going 4-6 weeks without spending time with the baby..a bonded father wouldn't be able to handle seeing his child so little).

Your daughter is in charge of what happens regarding the baby until a court says otherwise. It would not be wise to deny dad contact with the child, but that also does not mean that she is required to hand the child over whenever dad demands that the child be handed over.

You have also indicated that the child does not seem to do well with the visits. I already gave you some ideas of how to make that work better for the child. I stand by that advice. The child will adjust better if there is some positive interaction between the two families...some "overlap". You seem to have a positive attitude about the other grandparents, so you could enlist their help in making that work better.

However, again, the bottom line is that your daughter is in control until a court says otherwise, and as long as your daughter is not denying contact between the child and dad, and is actively working on fostering a healthy relationship, she is NOT going to get dinged by the court for imposing reasonable boundries/stages/requirements etc.

However, at the same time you have to tread lightly, as the grandparent, and recognize your role as the grandparent. You have some responsibilities as the parent of a minor child who is a parent...but you also have to realize that you are not the parent of the infant, and that you don't actually have any rights that go along with those responsibilities (its a tough situation to be in)

Unfortunately this forum tends to view all unwed mothers as hostile to the fathers, and all grandparents of unwed mothers as hostile to the fathers...and tends to view all disinterest on the part of the fathers as the fault of either the mother or the maternal grandparents...even when its clear that the father is disinterested.

I could add a lot more about the hypocracy of this forum, but I won't. I am too tired.
 

CourtClerk

Senior Member
Unfortunately this forum tends to view all unwed mothers as hostile to the fathers, and all grandparents of unwed mothers as hostile to the fathers...and tends to view all disinterest on the part of the fathers as the fault of either the mother or the maternal grandparents...even when its clear that the father is disinterested.

I could add a lot more about the hypocracy of this forum, but I won't. I am too tired.
Oh really? Please do tell. I'd be interested where ANY of your statements have the least bit of truth to them
Add to the hypocrasy of this forum, please do Ld. It apparently has never stopped you from posting here. I mean, we're all just as hostile to unwed mothers and grandmothers of unwed mothers as you are anti-father. Oh, now I'm sure you'll tell me MY comment was uncalled for.
 
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