Leaving Children Alone?

[StampGirl]

What is the name of your state? California

Hope everyone had a good Christmas

My ex and his wife are pushing the issue of our 12yr to babysit her sisters ages 9yr and 6yrs. They started two weeks ago with leaving them alone for about an hour. When I expressed my concern (safety being the largest) because the oldest has NO emergency training etc and is not very mature, I was ignored. My daughter came to me after the first time it happened and told me she was uncomfortable and didn't want to be responsible because she was afraid something would happen to her sisters while she was alone with them.

Apparently, they left the girls alone again last Saturday for almost 2hrs while they went to the store (in the evening) and paid all three girls for being "so good". When I asked my oldest one if she was ok with it, she said no but she was "more afraid to call me and have her dad find out that I knew they were left alone because she would be in trouble with her dad and step-mom". Those are her words, not mine.

This idea of theirs never entered their heads until a few weeks ago we were in mediation and the mediator told him if he was going to have the girls when he was working then he had to provide a babysitter for the children. Then *bamm* all of a sudden they are now pushing the 12yr old to babysit.

I am afraid they are working up to leaving them all alone while they are both at work in Feb when the girls are off-track and they are supposed to be with him for a week.

Am I being silly or are my concerns substantiated? What can I do , if anything, to stop this from continuing?

My next issue is that the step-mom and my ex are punishing the 9yr old because last weekend she missed me and was crying. They put her in time-out and told her that "she was making them feel bad because she was missing her mom and that she wasnt allowed to miss her mom since she had only been gone one day". Those again are her words and not mine. When I picked them up on Christmas, the 9yr old ran out of his car with tears streaming down her face that she was so happy to be home. She was crying so hard she almost threw up. This happens every weekend they spend with their dad.

This needs to stop and I am unsure of how to deal with both of these issues. Can someone point me in the right direction as far as legal ways to address these? The mediator already recommended counseling to my ex for the kids but he says the kids are just fine.

Thank you for any advice you can give.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? California

Hope everyone had a good Christmas

My ex and his wife are pushing the issue of our 12yr to babysit her sisters ages 9yr and 6yrs. They started two weeks ago with leaving them alone for about an hour. When I expressed my concern (safety being the largest) because the oldest has NO emergency training etc and is not very mature, I was ignored. My daughter came to me after the first time it happened and told me she was uncomfortable and didn't want to be responsible because she was afraid something would happen to her sisters while she was alone with them.

Apparently, they left the girls alone again last Saturday for almost 2hrs while they went to the store (in the evening) and paid all three girls for being "so good". When I asked my oldest one if she was ok with it, she said no but she was "more afraid to call me and have her dad find out that I knew they were left alone because she would be in trouble with her dad and step-mom". Those are her words, not mine.

This idea of theirs never entered their heads until a few weeks ago we were in mediation and the mediator told him if he was going to have the girls when he was working then he had to provide a babysitter for the children. Then *bamm* all of a sudden they are now pushing the 12yr old to babysit.

I am afraid they are working up to leaving them all alone while they are both at work in Feb when the girls are off-track and they are supposed to be with him for a week.

Am I being silly or are my concerns substantiated? What can I do , if anything, to stop this from continuing?

My next issue is that the step-mom and my ex are punishing the 9yr old because last weekend she missed me and was crying. They put her in time-out and told her that "she was making them feel bad because she was missing her mom and that she wasnt allowed to miss her mom since she had only been gone one day". Those again are her words and not mine. When I picked them up on Christmas, the 9yr old ran out of his car with tears streaming down her face that she was so happy to be home. She was crying so hard she almost threw up. This happens every weekend they spend with their dad.

This needs to stop and I am unsure of how to deal with both of these issues. Can someone point me in the right direction as far as legal ways to address these? The mediator already recommended counseling to my ex for the kids but he says the kids are just fine.

Thank you for any advice you can give.

I really do think that the kids need counseling, particuarly the 9 year old. They need help in handling what goes on at their father's house, and probably help in general regarding the divorce.

Obviously if the mediator told him that he needed to get a babysitter, the mediator wasn't saying that the 12 year old should BE the babysitter.

Get the kids some counselling and take both issues to court.

 

[StampGirl]

Our court order says both of us have to give permission for counseling. He has already stated that he believes the kids to be "fine and well adjusted" even in front of hte mediator.

Do I need to make the appointment then just email him to notify him? Or do I need to email him for permission first?

I really want this done now as they are a mess today. I have until Jan 18th before he has any visitation with them.

Or do I need to file an ex parte hearing to get court ordered counseling if he refuses?

I was hoping to just go through Kaiser (their insurance).

Is there anything legally I can do about him leaving the kids home alone?

Thanks for your advice Ldj.

 

[LdiJ]

Our court order says both of us have to give permission for counseling. He has already stated that he believes the kids to be "fine and well adjusted" even in front of hte mediator.

Do I need to make the appointment then just email him to notify him? Or do I need to email him for permission first?

I really want this done now as they are a mess today. I have until Jan 18th before he has any visitation with them.

Or do I need to file an ex parte hearing to get court ordered counseling if he refuses?

I was hoping to just go through Kaiser (their insurance).

Is there anything legally I can do about him leaving the kids home alone?


Thanks for your advice Ldj.

If the court orders specifically state that you both have to give permission for counseling, then you will have to take it to court and get the judge's permission if dad won't agree. I also think that you need to take it to court about the babysitting too. I would take both issues at the same time.

 

[StampGirl]

If the court orders specifically state that you both have to give permission for counseling, then you will have to take it to court and get the judge's permission if dad won't agree. I also think that you need to take it to court about the babysitting too. I would take both issues at the same time.

That is what I was thinking also but wanted to make sure I was correct.

Now, I have access to the forms online however, I am unsure what forms to file.

To me, this doesn't fall under modification of visitation or anything of that nature.

I guess I need someone to point me in the right direction as far as the correct forms to file (which I can do tomorrow).

I emailed my ex requesting permission asap for counseling. If he doesn't agree, I can throw that in with the babysitting.

Thanks for your help LdiJ I appreciate it very much.

 

[LdiJ]

That is what I was thinking also but wanted to make sure I was correct.

Now, I have access to the forms online however, I am unsure what forms to file.

To me, this doesn't fall under modification of visitation or anything of that nature.

I guess I need someone to point me in the right direction as far as the correct forms to file (which I can do tomorrow).

I emailed my ex requesting permission asap for counseling. If he doesn't agree, I can throw that in with the babysitting.

Thanks for your help LdiJ I appreciate it very much.

It would be a modfication. You would be asking the judge to modify the orders to specifically instruct dad to cooperate with counseling, and to NOT allow the 12 year old to babysit.

 

[StampGirl]

When I file the paperwork, should I request an emergency hearing so it can be faster? The dates are usually 2-3 months wait.

My reasoning is that I want the children in counseling as soon as possible.

I am looking at the website for the county I am in.

Is it the form to modify visitation? All I see for modification forms is for custody/modification and support. I must be blind!!

 

[profmum]

It would be a modfication. You would be asking the judge to modify the orders to specifically instruct dad to cooperate with counseling, and to NOT allow the 12 year old to babysit.

I dont know if a judge would force dad to cooperate with counselling or order that kiddo get counselling purely based on what Mum says, imagine what a can of worms that would open! I suspect if Mum and dad do not agree, the courts might appoint a GAL or request an evaluation to see if counselling is necessary. As for an emergency hearing, I do not think that is the way to go. The baby sitting issue is not an " emergency" since the child is 12 and is legally allowed to babysit and the 9 y's old's anxiety has been going on for a while now, so cant be an emergency if the behavior has been on going for a while. In my experience, judges do not like motions that are filed as emergency motions simply to be heard earlier.

 

[LdiJ]

When I file the paperwork, should I request an emergency hearing so it can be faster? The dates are usually 2-3 months wait.

My reasoning is that I want the children in counseling as soon as possible.

I am looking at the website for the county I am in.

Is it the form to modify visitation? All I see for modification forms is for custody/modification and support. I must be blind!!

I think it would be a custody modification....or a parenting plan modification. Both issues fall under "joint legal custody" decision making. Yes, you can certainly try for an emergency order. If the judge agrees that its an emergency the judge will treat it as an emergency, if the judge doesn't agree that its an emergency, the judge will set it for hearing within the regular schedule.

 

[wileybunch]

StampGirl, another route to go ... maybe a babysitter class would be a good way to go so that she feels more prepared.

 

[StampGirl]

StampGirl, another route to go ... maybe a babysitter class would be a good way to go so that she feels more prepared.

I have thought about that however, my issues are this.

To me, babysitting and the chance to earn money is a priviledge and a major responsibility. Her grades are not good right now (failing two classes) and she is under alot of stress with school. She has trouble handling even the smallest amount of responsibility at home (picking up clothes, dishes and basic chores). I stressed that with her dad saying that when her grades pick up then we can open this discussion again but until then I am against it. He went ahead and did it anyway knowing how I feel.

We agreed to discuss it however, he went ahead and left her alone without my knowledge of it. Both times were done behind my back (so to speak). The first time he emailed me telling me he and his wife were hiring a babysitter for the girls so they could attend a Xmas party. Fine I have no issue with that. Nowhere was it mentioned that the babysitter was our 12yr old. They ended up not going out that night (wife was sick) and for that I am grateful.

My daughter has been put in the middle of this and I can't stand that. His wife is very controlling and on a vengeful path because she didn't get her way with the holiday visitiation modification a few weeks ago.

I only want an emergency hearing so that I can get them into counseling as soon as possible. I can't even make the appointment without his permission (which is ridiculous if you ask me).

 

[stealth2]

I would be very surprised if a judge told him he can't let the 12yo babysit. That is a parenting decision, and you don't get to tell him what to do on his time, in his home. HE feels she IS mature enough. I think it's foolish and short-sighted of you not to get her the skills she needs in terms of handling emergencies, etc.

Counseling, however, could be useful. So I'd go to court for that if Dad refuses. But not the babysitting. Dad is not required to parent according to your standards.

 

[StampGirl]

I would be very surprised if a judge told him he can't let the 12yo babysit. That is a parenting decision, and you don't get to tell him what to do on his time, in his home. HE feels she IS mature enough. I think it's foolish and short-sighted of you not to get her the skills she needs in terms of handling emergencies, etc.

Counseling, however, could be useful. So I'd go to court for that if Dad refuses. But not the babysitting. Dad is not required to parent according to your standards.

Even if she has expressed that she doesn't want to babysit? But was afraid to tell her dad and step-mom because she didnt' want to get in trouble? Yes that is how things work at their house. The kids are made to feel guilty for missing their mom, not wanting to do things that they want them to do and the kids are even punished for all of the above.

He didn't feel she was mature enough until 3 weeks ago, after the mediator told him he needed to have a babysiter (adult) to watch all the kids during his time if he is working.

We discussed her babysitting about 4-5 weeks ago. We both agreed she wasn't ready or mature enough. But hey know that his wife states that "she babysat when she was 12yrs old (back in 1970)" its ok? I don't buy that.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

To me, babysitting and the chance to earn money is a priviledge and a major responsibility. Her grades are not good right now (failing two classes) and she is under alot of stress with school. She has trouble handling even the smallest amount of responsibility at home (picking up clothes, dishes and basic chores). I stressed that with her dad saying that when her grades pick up then we can open this discussion again but until then I am against it. He went ahead and did it anyway knowing how I feel.

I would be very surprised if a judge told him he can't let the 12yo babysit. That is a parenting decision, and you don't get to tell him what to do on his time, in his home. HE feels she IS mature enough. I think it's foolish and short-sighted of you not to get her the skills she needs in terms of handling emergencies, etc.

IMHO, if the daughter is expressing that SHE is NOT comfortable babysitting, then she shouldn't be doing it. A class might help with some of that. Stampgirl has valid, provable facts to why the daughter isn't responsible enough to babysit. She also has tangible steps that must be met in order to babysit. This is child-dependent, not age dependent, as to when a child is ready to babysit. Personally, I dislike the whole older children watching younger siblings because it blurs the lines of authority. I've done it, but only once the child hit high school. It gets easier as they are in high school, but I have found that it doesn't work as well with middle schoolers. Personally, I would take it to the judge.

 

[stealth2]

Even if she has expressed that she doesn't want to babysit? But was afraid to tell her dad and step-mom because she didnt' want to get in trouble? Yes that is how things work at their house. The kids are made to feel guilty for missing their mom, not wanting to do things that they want them to do and the kids are even punished for all of the above.

He didn't feel she was mature enough until 3 weeks ago, after the mediator told him he needed to have a babysiter (adult) to watch all the kids during his time if he is working.

We discussed her babysitting about 4-5 weeks ago. We both agreed she wasn't ready or mature enough. But hey know that his wife states that "she babysat when she was 12yrs old (back in 1970)" its ok? I don't buy that.

BTDT, and that is why you give your children the skills to cope instead of patting them on the head and telling them you'll fix it all. Both of mine have been in the same situation, so I made sure that they knew how to handle themselves in a variety of potential situations. If anything, it's made them MORE responsible and capable. Much (if not all) can even be done w/o the aid of a counselor - role play, make sure she knows emergency numbers - help her find them and write them down, discuss what sorts of things can happen and what potential solutions are, etc.