Legal Guardian refused to allow contact

[WhereRtheMorals]

What is the name of your state? Washington and Oklahoma

My husband's cousin and her husband have nonparental custody/guardianship of his 3 year old daughter. There is a residential schedule in place, but this last September we moved from Washington State(where his daughter is located) to Oklahoma. In July of 2006, the legal guardian decided to deny further visitation/phonecall from my husband. In the legal paperwork it stipulates that the only restrictions on my husband are that he was to:

1.) Take a parenting class approved by the courts(which he completed right after the paperwork went through)

2.)During visitation with his daughter, she will not be exposed to any cigarette, alcohol, or drug use. Further, the child be not exposed to any "significant other" until relationship has lasted at least one year.(my husband and I were already together for over a year when paperwork was filed)

3.)Visitations with the child my be at times and places, and under conditions, mutually agreed between the Biological parent and my husband's cousins. All such visits shall be scheduled with the cousins at least one week in advance.

My question is:
Does my husband's cousin have the right to deny ANY and ALL attempts my husband has made at visitation and or phonecalls to his daughter? How does my husband go about trying to get his daughter back? His cousin has denied him visitation since July of 2006. She beleives SHE is his daughter's mother, and has taught her to call my husband by his given name instead of dad. Not only does she collect State Aid in WA for suffering from mental illness, her husband collects from the state as well for his back. My husband and I are expecting our first child together this August and hope that my stepdaughter and this new daughter will be able to have a healthy relationship. PLEASE HELP!!! We are desparate to have a normal family again!

[Ohiogal]

Legal custody is permanent normally so he will not be able to get his child back most likely> He will be able to bring her to court for contempt or at least to modify the court order.

[FITFatherof2]

I dont get the "logic" here. In July of 2006 all visitation, and communication was stopped between the father and his daughter. That seems like a good time to address the issue. Instead, two months later he leaves the state to move to Oklahoma. Now, almost 10 months later,stepmom, not Dad,is asking what can be done. Does Dad have a pulse? How does any parent move away from their child and allow a guardian to prevent him any communication with his child when it is allowed by the court? A true parent would not have a take it, or leave it attitude. You take everything the court gives you while fighting for more until one of two things happen, either the court gives you your children back, or they turn 18. I would be looking to hire an attorney here in Washington, but it may not look too good for Dad. Someone will correct me if they believe I am wrong, but while fighting for my children I would never send the message to the court that your husband has sent.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

Legal custody is permanent normally so he will not be able to get his child back most likely> He will be able to bring her to court for contempt or at least to modify the court order.

I have to disagree with this. Custody is modifiable and parents have the constitutional right to the care and custody of their children.

Now, it does sound to me like this may have been a CPS case, or something similar, which means that dad might have to jump through some major hoops, for a very long time, but to say that he is unlikely to ever regain custody of his child is pushing the envelope.

Moving to Oklahoma was a big mistake, however. If he wants a real relationship with his child he needs to seriously consider moving back to WA. It sounds like he would have to take things in stages/phases, and that's not very realistic with that kind of distance.

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

I have to disagree with this. Custody is modifiable and parents have the constitutional right to the care and custody of their children.

Now, it does sound to me like this may have been a CPS case, or something similar, which means that dad might have to jump through some major hoops, for a very long time, but to say that he is unlikely to ever regain custody of his child is pushing the envelope.

Moving to Oklahoma was a big mistake, however. If he wants a real relationship with his child he needs to seriously consider moving back to WA. It sounds like he would have to take things in stages/phases, and that's not very realistic with that kind of distance.

Legal custody is to be considered statutorily permanent when third parties are involved and not parents. This is a third party case. It is not to be considered a temporary situation. You can disagree but the courts are going to look very strongly at the actions of dad and the permanent legal custodian. The reasons why legal custody was received by the couple are a big factor. Once legal custody is granted through a CPS case it is not changed. Unless on appeal it can be proven that something legally inappropriate or wrong happened.

[WhereRtheMorals]

The reasons behind the guardianship being granted over to my husband's cousin was due to many reasons. Some of those reasons are that my husband was currently married.. working full time and had just registered with the Army. His wife (at the time) left him without warning only a month after his daughter was born for an internet boyfriend accross the states. This left him as the sole parent to raise a newborn child (mind you he was a lot younger) where he was working full time and unable to afford to quit to take care of his child. That's when his cousin came into the picture. He went to go live with her because she offered to help him out with the care of the baby and he could continue to keep working full time to support his baby. This was a good plan at the time.

When his daughter turned 1 years old, I was already in the picture and getting to know her and her living situation. Well, the child's mother and my husband's ex , out of the blue came back to WA and decided she wanted to be a "mommy" again. SO we all worked out a plan of visitation. Unfortunatley every time the Mom would take the child on a visit something terrible would happen. On one day after a weekend visit with mom, the child came back to us near death... quite literally. That is when my husband's cousin started talking about protecting the child from the mom. We all agreed that the mom was not fit to take her whenever she felt like being a "mommy".

So the cousin went out on her own, and got some paperwork made up. She had just told my husband to sign it and his daughter would be protected from the mom. (My husband had no reason to question his cousin's motives at the time and was convinced that the paperwork would help his daughter... he again was very young and ignorant of any type of court paperwork) Soon after he got served with more paperwork from his cousin, and was informed that he had been tricked into giving the cousins guardianship of his daughter. The realationship with the cousins grew very stressed. They forced him to move out with another relative.. and they kept his daughter.

My original post decribes the court order.

My husband being the loving dad he is. Took the class right away and would go over to the cousin's house for lunch with his daughter everyday.... and we went over to visit EVERY Sunday. Then things started to get really weird... the child started calling him by his given name... and not how a child naturally learns the name, but by a forced two sylable name. Like it was TAUGHT. Then my step daughter started calling the cousins mom and dad.

Not only that, but all of a sudden the cousin didn't want to let us take his child on visits anymore to our home... she wanted to stay at her house, so we complied. (we wanted any visit we could get) On the 4th of July the cousins outright came out with their plan all along. They flat out said that they were his daughter's new mom and dad and that's how it was going to stay. My husband felt very betrayed and defensless.

My husband and I had been planning our wedding all year and got married in August.... so finances were REALLY tight. His parents in Oklahoma were GIVING us a house and 2 acres for a wedding gift. We knew that getting a house and land would help us out especially with getting his daughter back because we had a place for her, instead of the highcost living in WA... it would be years and years before we could provide a stable home if we had stayed up there...

My husband did NOT abandon his daughter. He has been living each day to better our situation. Shortly after the 4th of July event, his cousins started to party hard. THey even started letting thier underage son(who by the way is a known criminal and drug addict) drink at home in the presence of my husband's daughter. If we had the money we would have been in court then. We were faced with two options: 1.) we drop everything, go to court and lose all the money we had and lose our house in the process leaving us in court with nothing to show.... or 2.) we could save our money, move to OK, create a warm, safe, and stable life with a good family environment. At the time we thought we were making a good decision.

This cousin is a very intimidating woman... When we moved down to OK.. we tried calling (have the phone records to prove it) we called about 38 times between sept-Dec. It wasn't until Christmas did someone finally answer the phone. My husband got to talk to his daughter for UNDER 5 mins... and that was it. The cousin on the phone took it away said thanks for the gifts (for his daughter) and hung up. After that everytime we called up there we didn't get an answer or brief talks with the female cousin telling us that my husband's daughter was acting out and that she has been getting kicked out of daycare for being violent... and other disturbing news.

This whole time I, the step mom was not allowed to talk to my stepdaughter at all since the wedding. I finally called up there by myself to tell my Step daughter that I had a baby in my tummy and it was going to be her sister. Suprisingly, the cousin let me actually talk to her... only after 2 hours of pleading. About three weeks later I finally get a hold of the cousin agian. She informed me that my stepdaughter was in the hospital with a KIDNEY INFECTION! NOw, I don't know if the people reading this are aware... UNDER 2% OF THE WORLDS POPULATION UNDER 4 YEARS OF AGE DEVELOP KIDNEY INFECTIONS. That means that the only way my StepDaughter would have gotten this is if she had had a UTI that had gone untreated for some time.. and now she is facing kidney failer in her future... (this all from a doctor.)

YOu see there are a lot of factors as to how we ended up in this situation.. I assure you my husband loves his daughter with all his heart... He has spent the last three years cleaning up the peices so that he can better provide for his family. We just want our normal family back. I posted to get advice... please help.

[Ohiogal]

The reasons behind the guardianship being granted over to my husband's cousin was due to many reasons.

STOP RIGHT THERE. Come back when you find out exactly what the person has -- if it is guardianship or legal custody. THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT and ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE TERMS.

[WhereRtheMorals]

The cousin always talked about it being a Temporary Guardianship, but when I'm looking at the Residential Schedule, it uses terms like:

The custody of: child
and
"agreed nonparental custody"

[FITFatherof2]

If I were Dad I would be taking out a home equity loan on that wedding gift and hire an attroney in Washington. I wouldnt let anymore time pass asking questions here. You need to start calling attorneys in Washington and set up some free phone consultations. Buy a fax machine.

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by WhereRtheMorals

The cousin always talked about it being a Temporary Guardianship, but when I'm looking at the Residential Schedule, it uses terms like:

The custody of: child
and
"agreed nonparental custody"

What does the COURT ORDER state. Not the residential schedule BUT THE COURT ORDER that incorporates the schedule?

[bononos again]

So, his parents are giving the two of you a home as a wedding gift???
Where was their generosity when he needed a place to stay with the child when she was 1month old?

He wastes your money on a wedding instead of his child???

Sept. - Dec., So approx. 120 days he tried to call only 38 times? What was he busy doing?

None of what you say leads me to believe he is or will be a good parent to his future child and none of this really adds up.

[WhereRtheMorals]

"So, his parents are giving the two of you a home as a wedding gift???
Where was their generosity when he needed a place to stay with the child when she was 1month old?

He wastes your money on a wedding instead of his child???

Sept. - Dec., So approx. 120 days he tried to call only 38 times? What was he busy doing?

None of what you say leads me to believe he is or will be a good parent to his future child and none of this really adds up"

That hurts.
Yes, we were given a home for our present. The home was owned by his parents, whom rented it out to just come even on THIER bills. His parents are old with a lot of medical problems... for you to suggest they are not giving people couldn't be farther from the truth. My husband needed to KEEP the job he had and stay in WA where his wife at the time was... she still was MIA. They had not gotten a divorce yet and still had issues to deal with.

As for the wedding... The wedding was very low cost and MY family (hello- bride's family pays) was the one to help us out on that.. What money we did have was going to bills... rent... food, etc.... you know in order to survive.

The 38 calls I mentioned were UNANSWERED calls... He has called on his phone and mine every couple days during that period. We also followed a social worker's advice and have written two letters a month using certified mail to his daughter. You forget, we had just moved and getting settled DOES take a huge chunk of time when both wife and husband are working full time and pulling 40-60 hours/week each. I'm sorry if you think ALL our efforts have been fruitless.

As far as you thinking you know my husband enough to judge him as a bad father and to say he is going to be a bad father to our new child hurts even more. He loves his family and is working VERY hard to make things as they should be. I know lack of experience and education on the court system has hindered us... that is why we are looking into all resources to help us... like I'm doing on this message board.. Looking for advice- NOT HATE.

[Silverplum]

Nobody is "hating" you -- no one cares enough to hate you. These are actually questions your H will face if he goes to court. Certainly he will face these qs from his attorney. Certainly from the opposing attorney. Likely from the judge.

If you can't take it here, don't bother to go to court. Just lie down and give up.

Originally Posted by WhereRtheMorals

That hurts.
Yes, we were given a home for our present. The home was owned by his parents, whom rented it out to just come even on THIER bills. His parents are old with a lot of medical problems... for you to suggest they are not giving people couldn't be farther from the truth. My husband needed to KEEP the job he had and stay in WA where his wife at the time was... she still was MIA. They had not gotten a divorce yet and still had issues to deal with.

As for the wedding... The wedding was very low cost and MY family (hello- bride's family pays) was the one to help us out on that.. What money we did have was going to bills... rent... food, etc.... you know in order to survive.

The 38 calls I mentioned were UNANSWERED calls... He has called on his phone and mine every couple days during that period. We also followed a social worker's advice and have written two letters a month using certified mail to his daughter. You forget, we had just moved and getting settled DOES take a huge chunk of time when both wife and husband are working full time and pulling 40-60 hours/week each. I'm sorry if you think ALL our efforts have been fruitless.

As far as you thinking you know my husband enough to judge him as a bad father and to say he is going to be a bad father to our new child hurts even more. He loves his family and is working VERY hard to make things as they should be. I know lack of experience and education on the court system has hindered us... that is why we are looking into all resources to help us... like I'm doing on this message board.. Looking for advice- NOT HATE.

[Blue Meanie]

What does the COURT ORDER state. Not the residential schedule BUT THE COURT ORDER that incorporates the schedule?

__________________


You need to answer this question to get the help you want.

[WhereRtheMorals]

My husband and I will NOT lie down and give up. I understand that these are the questions that we will be faced with in court. I also know that my husband and I have beat ourselves up over every little pety thing that WILL be brought up in court. We know how vindictive his cousin is and we have spent a lot of time preparing for those kind of questions. I get defensive because I know that we are the underdogs because sooo much time has already gone by. Where we are at now is stable and consistant.. Now we are ready for the fight.. I only wish to get some good advice and Ideas from whoever will listen. Ideas on other things that we might not have thought of to help our case... or things that we could be doing that we haven't yet... Or that maybe someone reading this has information or good ideas from a personal experience that has helped them.. could also help us in our goals.. We both love her and miss her so much.. even just help with how to get some solid visitation would benefit us. The steps we need to take and what not else.

As far as the paperwork.. "What does the COURT ORDER state. Not the residential schedule BUT THE COURT ORDER that incorporates the schedule?" All that She ever gave us/sent us WAS the Residential Schedule. IT is the ONLY paperwork my husband has ever had to sign.