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A little confused about what constitutes kidnapping?

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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TN

They are in the process of filing for a divorce and the spouse keeps threatening to take the children and leave to an undisclosed location.

I was reading this Parental kidnapping – Just Don’t Do It! | MEMPHIS DIVORCE LAWYERS | The Divorce Attorney for Women | Ferrell Law Firm
which kind of makes it sound like kidnapping, but I was unsure if that really constituted it.

I asked the local police and they said that the spouse could take the children anywhere, at least up until the divorce. Does this sound correct?

The answer: [found later] Apparently only those references only apply when a custodial parent has assigned by the courts.
(what's interesting is that I found this answer from a lawyer on another, much more cordial, forum. Proof that lawyers don't have to be spiteful. Maybe it's just people who want to act like lawyers that feel the need...)


[I edited this to take it out of the first person, I disclaimed it, and thought that it would be easier to get a straight answer with, however it seems to have ended up in an upheaval. I'm also going to clean up some of my other comments that do not belong in this thread but in my main thread. If you would like to reply to that one, you can find it in my post history.]
 
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Then advise your friend to come and post his/her own situation. It would be preferable.
Can I asked a really sincere question? How come whenever I post seeking advice on behalf of my 45 year old mother, I get one of two responses: A. She needs to ask questions herself, or B. She needs to speak to a lawyer.

She IS asking these questions, directly to me, and asking me to post them on the forum for feedback. And she IS talking to a lawyer, at $250 an hour, and at the forum's encouragement seeking two more to review her mediated agreement.

p.s. roadwarrior made me lawl :) [edit <- I actually thought he was being humorous, not instigating, whoops.]
 
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Proserpina

Senior Member
Can I asked a really sincere question? How come whenever I post seeking advice on behalf of my 45 year old mother, I get one of two responses: A. She needs to ask questions herself, or B. She needs to speak to a lawyer.

She IS asking these questions, directly to me, and asking me to post them on the forum for feedback. And she IS talking to a lawyer, at $250 an hour, and at the FORUMS encouragement seeking two more to review her settlement.

I've said I was going to do this forever but I guess I'm really going to have to make an account for her and directly transcribe our phone calls in order to be taken seriously.

p.s. roadwarrior made me lawl :)


If she's talking to a lawyer - you don't need to be here at all on her behalf.

In fact, it is irresponsible for a) you to be asking questions and b) for us to second guess her attorney!
 
She lives in a town with a population of five thousand. The best attorney in that town would probably make a 1st year undergrad law student look good.

Anyway, the first attorney she's spoken with said that based on my dad making 86k a year and her making nothing she may to get $600 a month for even a couple of years. (I'm not sure if the attorney was speaking of just child support or what because the other forum said this sounded awfully low.) So she sent her to a mediator who couldn't even draw up legal documents with proper spelling, and so far has glanced over them and said, 'It looks good.'

These documents include my dad paying, for example, 500 a month in Cobra as rehabilitative alimony, however if my mom finds personal insurance for, lets say 200, my dad just gets to keep the difference. It has him paying for her apartment. Not paying her, but paying for it for her, and again, if she finds a cheaper place, he keeps the difference. So basically his alimony is set up on a sliding scale and no one seem to think this is odd except me.

Lastly, they put down that she makes minimum wage of 15k in the child support and marital assets calculation, saying that this was required for the state of TN. However, she does not make minimum wage. When they are divorced, she will be making zero. So how and where is this a law?

She's starting to think maybe she's just not asking the right questions. But I have no idea what questions to even tell her to ASK.

I mean their cost of living calculations have my father, who makes 6k a month take home (7.1k net) at a deficit of $400. I find that had to believe when on paper the personal budgets are inflated with things like 600/mth for food! They don't even spend that much COMBINED right now.

And of course, this agreement the mediator drew up as custody at exactly 50/50, meaning he gets a lowered child support payment, however there is NO WAY he will be able to keep the kids 182.5 days out of the year when he leaves for work at 5 am, comes home at 7pm, works 5 days a week, and travels at least one weekend or longer each month. Yet, somehow he is trying to say there's no primary custodian. She is the one who generally makes decisions about their health care, their doctors, their schooling, etc. I'm just so riveted by this whole thing right now and the complete lack of understanding from anyone.

And why am I concerned? Because I've seen parents take each other for a ride before and how it ends up. I want them to make a clean break and get on with their lives so that I don't feel obligated to come back and help my mother and three brothers when my dad decides he wants to (figuratively) run off with the hot secretary and stop paying his voluntary support in a couple years. (of course he says, that will never happen...) And to give him more credit than I did when I first wrote this. He is generally a man of his word. (However forgetful) But people change. 3-5 years from now, who knows? (I've gone into more depth below why it's personally important to me that my parents, particularly my mother, get a fair and impartial mediated divorce agreement and how it could potentially affect me in the future if it goes poorly.)
 
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stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Can I asked a really sincere question? How come whenever I post seeking advice on behalf of my 45 year old mother, I get one of two responses: A. She needs to ask questions herself, or B. She needs to speak to a lawyer.

She IS asking these questions, directly to me, and asking me to post them on the forum for feedback. And she IS talking to a lawyer, at $250 an hour, and at the FORUMS encouragement seeking two more to review her settlement.

I've said I was going to do this forever but I guess I'm really going to have to make an account for her and directly transcribe our phone calls in order to be taken seriously.

p.s. roadwarrior made me lawl :)
Because this is your mother's legal issue. At 45, she really should be able to ask questions about her own situation herself. She should be able to research her issues online herself. It is not that complicated. My 80+yo mother is capable of it.

You are not a party to the case. How old are you, btw?
 
She is not educated when it comes to technology at all, yes she will have to become that way, but now isn't the best of time when she has soo much else to worry about. He's a computer engineer and a lot of it stems from pulling an SNL's Nick Burns The Computer Guy and just pushing her out of the way to do it himself. He thinks smart phones are a waste, laptops should only be for work, and will not allow a wifi router to be installed.

What does my age have to do with this?
I will have to deal with the consequences of how this divorce is handled for the rest of my life.
As much as I would like to say pfft, that's your problem and move on, I really don't see any circumstance where that is the right answer.

Maybe if she was as confident and capable as my dad sure I could. But then she wouldn't even need my help.
 
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OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
Maybe he thinks she is stupid and in order for their relationship to stay on course, he needs to keep her socialization levels controlled. There is nothing wrong with a subservient marriage, that both partners are content with. Introducing change is not the business of interlopers, unless one of the parties seems to be in danger. This applies equally to subservient men and woman.
 
Basically you're saying that if he is able to rake her for everything by getting out of paying child support (which he desperately wants to because he views it as unfair and no amount of reasoning will change that opinion.), getting out of rehabilitative spousal support, and/or getting out of alimony then he should, and I should stay out of it?

Puh shaw. :cool:

I'm willing to spend my own money speaking to lawyers to make sure that doesn't happen.
 
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Maybe he thinks she is stupid and in order for their relationship to stay on course, he needs to keep her socialization levels controlled. There is nothing wrong with a subservient marriage, that both partners are content with.
I get this, and sure, the amount he wanted to control her, and his children, was ok when they were ok with it.




Introducing change is not the business of interlopers, unless one of the parties seems to be in danger. This applies equally to subservient men and woman.
Uhm, he's filing for divorce. So I have NO idea what the rest of your comment means unless you skipped over that part. I'm not meddling. She has asked for the help, advice, and support of her family and friends. I'm the closest person to her right now besides maybe one of her girlfriends.

Edit: Re-reading your comment has be even more confused and leaning towards angered. How is it not ethical for me to help my own mother not get the **** end of a bad deal? When I posted this in the general divorce forum the consensus was a bit more along the lines of 'WTF is he thinking?' At least until they realized I was speaking on behalf of my mother, at which point everyone clammed up and goes 'TALK TO A LAYWER!'
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
That is not what I said. What I said was you have no business sticking your nose in their relationship. If he has put her into an apartment, paying the bills, he is allowing her to distance herself from the relationship, or attempting to teach her something, while still taking care of her. If he has dumped and abandoned her, without support, she needs assistance and to get a job. Unless you know the exact circumstances, butt out. If she is not working, why not come and take care of the kids while he works, cleaning up after them. Be careful how you nose into another persons life.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
Maybe that is because I am older, wiser and more open minded. If you do not present the entire situation, you get information based on the information you gave. Years ago puppy, when your grandma n grandpa were married, these types of relationships were common. You assume the limited lifestyle info you possess, applies to the type of relationship mom n dad have had over the years.
 
Maybe that is because I am older, wiser and more open minded. If you do not present the entire situation, you get information based on the information you gave. Years ago puppy, when your grandma n grandpa were married, these types of relationships were common. You assume the limited lifestyle info you possess, applies to the type of relationship mom n dad have had over the years.

I really needed to take a step back from this completely insane thread and cool down, get some perspective, and re-address this.

First, since age apparently factors in to whether you speak to someone with respect or not I'll throw you a bone. I'm almost 20 years older than my third youngest brother who is in middle school. I am very aware of how relationships used to work. I assure you that my limited lifestyle encompasses more than you care to admit.

If calling me 'puppy' makes you feel better about yourself then have at it. :) (Especially if you're that much older than me, since it only reinforces the fact that you left your maturity in your 20's.)

Second, I'm sorry that this thread got out of control. As soon as I saw the direction it was headed I should have quit posting and started another one. It's just agonizingly frustrating to not get a straight answer out of people about some simple questions. I have not violated any TOS. I did not threaten anyone, I did not knowingly provide falsified information. I asked hypotheticals.

Third, I asked a simple question. I wanted a simple answer. It pertained to custody so I posted it in the custody forum. I already have a thread going on in the other divorce forum where all the above details are laid out very clearly, though it does need updating.

Despite that you replied with all these really odd responses about it not being my business and how he was just 'putting her up in an apartment' in order to control her or take a break from the relationship. I'm not even entirely sure what you were talking about since the things you've said don't even apply in this situation. We are talking about two people, getting a divorce, going their separate ways, assets being split, child support, and alimony, that is it. It's simple. You are making it something that it is not.

Fourth, I have known details and struggles of my parents relationship for a long time now. We have a close familial bond and I am also very protective of my brothers and their well being. I'm sorry if that's not how it works in your family, but that doesn't make it the only way. I have spoken with both my parents about this and my father has encouraged me to help my mom figure this out in any way I can. He just wants out. But you know what? I shouldn't even have to share that with you. I simply asked for opinion on the law.

Listen, if you can show me in writing where it's illegal for me to be involved, something that shows that, when asked by both parties mind you, I should have refused then I invite it. I am not being flippant.

I'm sorry that you are of the opinion that I should not be involved. My 18 year old little brother, yeah, maybe he shouldn't be involved. But me? I would rather not end up having to support my mother because she accidentally signed something that screwed her over.

He removed her from the life insurance. He told her that a lawyer would be a waste of time. Maybe in your world it's fine for him to attempt to force that kinda of control over the situation. But that is one thing and one thing only. Your opinion.
 
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Oh wow...

After rereading all of this, I'm not entirely convinced you even believe I'm the son! LOL. I get it. All your responses make sense now. :eek: And when you found out I was, in your mind, I had to be young. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that. You weren't either.
 

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