missouri move

[amagrl]

What is the name of your state? missouri

my family moved to missouri 4 years ago; I had a baby out of wedlock 2 years ago.
my family has moved back east and now I want to move back too.

I have a parenting plan with my son's dad and he gets him Wed. nights and EOW. He has always paid his child support and picked our son up on time for visitation. He has also done some extras; bailing me out until I got paid 2 or three times and paying my half of hospital bills that insurance did not cover.

I've searched past posts and the information seems very straight forward...
1. send notice of intent to relocate
2. wait for response within 30 days
3. no appeal then free to move after 60days

My question is...
1. Would a st louis missouri judge let me relocate to beaufort south carolina if my financial situation would be the same and my son's dad is a good dad?

I'm in discussions with my son's dad now about the possiblity but I wanted to be informed about what the legal standards are if the motives for the move are happiness of the custodial parent.

I was opposed to long visitations because my son is so young but now that I've been living the arrangement for the past year I think that my son could benifit more from less frequent but longer visits. It's almost like the visits come just often enough to confuse him

 

[CJane]

Yeah, it's pretty straightforward - as far as the notification process goes.

However, a move out of state is ALWAYS considered a significant enough change in circumstances to change custody.

When the father is involved with the child, a move to make YOU happier will not be allowed. If Dad fights this you'll have to prove it's in the child's best interests to be removed from regular contact with his father. That's not going to be easy.

If you're allowed to move with the child, you should be prepared to pay for all transportation to facilitate visitation, and to give up most of the summer, one weekend every month, extended holidays, half of Christmas break, e/o Thanksgiving, spring break, etc.

 

[proud_parent]

CJane knows Missouri family law; heed her advice.

I will point out, however, that Missouri Revised Statute 452.377 requires sixty days notice in advance of an intended move barring exigent circumstances. So when you tack on 30 days for a response, you are looking at 90 days and not 60 for a relocation without objection.

MO custodial parents attempting relocation have indeed been denied, even when citing financial and not strictly personal reasons, when the relocating party was unable to prove that the move would better the child's opportunities and not merely the parent's.

Finally, in your state a party seeking to relocate with a minor child bears the burden of proving that the proposed move is made in good faith and is in the best interest of the child. See Fohey v. Knickerbocker, 130 S.W.3d 730, 734 (Mo. App. E.D. 2004). In making a best interest determination, the trial court will consider the factors set forth in Section 452.375.2.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C400-499/4520000375.HTM

 

[CJane]

CJane knows Missouri family law; heed her advice.

I will point out, however, that Missouri Revised Statute 452.377 requires sixty days notice in advance of an intended move barring exigent circumstances. So when you tack on 30 days for a response, you are looking at 90 days and not 60 for a relocation without objection.

No.

Here's how it works.

You notify 60 days (minimum) by CRR letter of your intent to relocate. Statute requires very specific information.

The other parent has 30 days to file an objection. If no objection is filed w/in that 30 days, the relocating parent is free to move at the end of 60 days. So, it's not 90 days, it's 60 total.

 

[proud_parent]

CJane, I see what you are saying, and you are indeed correct per 452.377. I entirely misread the statute my first time through.

452.377.2. Notice of a proposed relocation of the residence of the child, or any party entitled to custody or visitation of the child, shall be given in writing by certified mail, return receipt requested, to any party with custody or visitation rights. Absent exigent circumstances as determined by a court with jurisdiction, written notice shall be provided at least sixty days in advance of the proposed relocation...

452.377.7. The residence of the child may be relocated sixty days after providing notice, as required by this section, unless a parent files a motion seeking an order to prevent the relocation within thirty days after receipt of such notice. Such motion shall be accompanied by an affidavit setting forth the specific factual basis supporting a prohibition of the relocation. The person seeking relocation shall file a response to the motion within fourteen days, unless extended by the court for good cause, and include a counter-affidavit setting forth the facts in support of the relocation as well as a proposed revised parenting plan for the child.


More proof for OP that she should heed your advice.

 

[amagrl]

pro se

If the other parent objects to the move and I am required to respond within 14 days...do you think I could be pro se and be able to fill out the paperwork myself.(No high drama in our case) I know that with motions to modify etc. the paperwork is almost impossible to complete properly. Also is anyone familar with MO March Mediation? Apparently it is a state funded mediation service that gives you 3 free hours of mediation and will submit the results to the court. I would just have to pay the filing fees.

 

[mommyof4]

Allow me to direct you to this thread. Please ignore all of the unrelated back and forth.

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=406928

 

[CJane]

If the other parent objects to the move and I am required to respond within 14 days...do you think I could be pro se and be able to fill out the paperwork myself.(No high drama in our case) I know that with motions to modify etc. the paperwork is almost impossible to complete properly. Also is anyone familar with MO March Mediation? Apparently it is a state funded mediation service that gives you 3 free hours of mediation and will submit the results to the court. I would just have to pay the filing fees.

I would NOT recommend going pro se with a motion to modify. Which is exactly what this is going to turn into if he wants to fight the move. Too much is at stake.

Your best bet is to 'sell' dad on the move and get him to agree to a VERY FAIR parenting plan that follows the public policy of Missouri which is to provide consistent, meaningful and frequent time with both parents - and it's going to be 100% at your expense.

 

[LdiJ]

I would NOT recommend going pro se with a motion to modify. Which is exactly what this is going to turn into if he wants to fight the move. Too much is at stake.

Your best bet is to 'sell' dad on the move and get him to agree to a VERY FAIR parenting plan that follows the public policy of Missouri which is to provide consistent, meaningful and frequent time with both parents - and it's going to be 100% at your expense.

As far as a fair parenting plan is concerned, a bit of modern technology can be helpful. If you can ensure that both homes have high speed internet service, and purchase webcams for both homes, you can ensure that dad and the child can both see and speak to each other frequently. Young children don't usually do well on the phone, but if they can see someone at the same time, the interaction can be more meaningful. Plus, its much cheaper than long distance calls.

 

[nextwife]

What is the name of your state? missouri

my family moved to missouri 4 years ago; I had a baby out of wedlock 2 years ago.
my family has moved back east and now I want to move back too.

I have a parenting plan with my son's dad and he gets him Wed. nights and EOW. He has always paid his child support and picked our son up on time for visitation. He has also done some extras; bailing me out until I got paid 2 or three times and paying my half of hospital bills that insurance did not cover.

I've searched past posts and the information seems very straight forward...
1. send notice of intent to relocate
2. wait for response within 30 days
3. no appeal then free to move after 60days

My question is...
1. Would a st louis missouri judge let me relocate to beaufort south carolina if my financial situation would be the same and my son's dad is a good dad?

I'm in discussions with my son's dad now about the possiblity but I wanted to be informed about what the legal standards are if the motives for the move are happiness of the custodial parent.

I was opposed to long visitations because my son is so young but now that I've been living the arrangement for the past year I think that my son could benifit more from less frequent but longer visits. It's almost like the visits come just often enough to confuse him

It is REALLY unfair to both your child and his dad to try to remove your child from their dad because of a YOUR PARENT'S decision to up and move so far away. Why should this have any bearing on where you, as an adult, choose to live? A NCP is supposed to have to fight for access to their own child because a set of GRANDPARENTS of an adult women, adult enough to have been living away from home and to have started a family, decided to move? Their residence choices should really have no bearing on custody issues between two adult parents.

Think about this- you are saying that you want to move your kids, you, an adult with a child you chose to have and raise in Missouri, because your child's grandparents have decided to move? Taking a child way from an involved father because of your parents residence choices? Be a grown up. Think about your child's need for their daddy, it's more important than your grown up need for your own mom and dad.

 

[amagrl]

visitation

Thanks for the advice my son's dad is a good guy so I did not plan on taking him to court if necessary but I wanted to be informed of my options. He is open to discussing it and I think the web cam idea is great. I wanted to ask some veterens(not a legal question) about visitation. My son is only 2 and at first I did not want extended visits but now that we have been doing wed. and EOW I think that long distance really could work well. he is two, he does not understand Wed and EOW so his dads visits are almost random(frequent) but random. I think he could have a bond with dad just as well as he has now if they talk on the phone and web cam 2-3times a week and go on a mini vacation together every two months and holidays. I think about the dad's in Iraq and just because they are gone doesn't diminish their role as a dad or stunt bonding?? Dad is just the hero working for the family. Anyway not a legal question but I have no friends with children and the ones I do know have nasty relationships with the dad and don't care about facillitating a relationship.
I wish I knew an adult child who went through this and could tell me what they think my son would wantLOL

 

[texastepmom]

I wish I knew an adult child who went through this and could tell me what they think my son would wantLOL

well, i'm an adult child whose parents never lived in the same town after divorce and for most of my life didn't even live in the same state. my father had custody of my brother and i lived with my mother. it sucked. i would never recommend moving away from a parent. my father never got to see my band concerts, dance recitals, meet my teachers, my friends, my boyfriends... and vice versa for my mother and my brother. my brother was an athelete and my mom missed all of his big events because she couldn't afford to fly out and rent a car and hotel room for them. i would fly to visit my dad for thanksgiving, spring break, and most of the summer. it wasn't enough.

my husband is divorced with two kids, his decree does not allow for his ex to move more than one county over, which she has done and it does limit a lot of his time with them, but he can still maintain EOW, holidays, etc. he can still go to school functions, he can meet the teachers, we can have thier friends visit us at our house. i can't tell you how much i wish i'd had the same opportunity to have this kind of a relationship with my dad.

my parents decision to live in separate states has definately damaged my relationship with my father, there is just no way around that.

 

[proud_parent]

Thanks for the advice my son's dad is a good guy so I did not plan on taking him to court if necessary but I wanted to be informed of my options. He is open to discussing it and I think the web cam idea is great. I wanted to ask some veterens(not a legal question) about visitation. My son is only 2 and at first I did not want extended visits but now that we have been doing wed. and EOW I think that long distance really could work well. he is two, he does not understand Wed and EOW so his dads visits are almost random(frequent) but random. I think he could have a bond with dad just as well as he has now if they talk on the phone and web cam 2-3times a week and go on a mini vacation together every two months and holidays. I think about the dad's in Iraq and just because they are gone doesn't diminish their role as a dad or stunt bonding?? Dad is just the hero working for the family. Anyway not a legal question but I have no friends with children and the ones I do know have nasty relationships with the dad and don't care about facillitating a relationship.
I wish I knew an adult child who went through this and could tell me what they think my son would wantLOL

I intend no offense...but what does your son's father think? You both will need to be equally committed to make any parenting plan work -- whether you choose to remain in Missouri or not.

Truthfully, I'd advise you to solicit the father's opinions about appropriate and feasible levels of contact, and work toward a compromise from there. Your son would want to know and to be loved by both of his parents; how to go about achieving that is entirely up to the father and you.

 

[CJane]

Well... I've done more than a little bit of research into this, and my little sister got her master's in family studies - specifically the impact of a 'missing' father on a young boy's development.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing, once a bond is established (and by 2, there's a bond) is consistent contact. While that contact being frequent is ideal... we don't live in an ideal world. Second best is very very structured contact. By that, I mean a child who can say "I see my Dad every 3rd weekend of the month for 3 days (or whatever). Or even "I don't get to see my dad very often, but we get together every single Christmas Eve and Fourth of July."

Kids need to be able to count on the same thing happening at the same time so that they can plan. And, so that they can answer questions. After all... "I see dad every 3rd weekend" is a WAY better answer for a kid being asked a question than "I dunno, I see him whenever he is in town (or mom lets me)."

Focus on a schedule. Make a calendar that shows the times he'll be with Dad. Color code it or use stickers or something.

That is, IF you're allowed to move.

But honestly - if Dad chooses to fight this - it's not likely that you're going anywhere.

 

[amagrl]

dad

dad and I are in the process of discussing it. Meaning I have brought the subject up to him and he is open to the idea but said he would be more likely to support it if it meant I was going to be making more money and could support myself better. My deal is: hey why don't ____ and I go live by my HUGE family 20min from the ocean while he is two and not in school since I have only lived in this cold,crime ridden st louis for four years and I know no one.I am asking him in a Please like way. He is like it sounds good but not unless you are moving for more money. He feels like fun at the ocean is not a good enough reason.He feels like I am saying the ocean is more important in his son's life then he is.. I definitly appreciate the personal experiences you guys shared because really his dad and I want what's best but we have never experienced anything like this. I feel like I can convince dad but I don't want to do that and then regret it later when ______ is like "yea mom I liked living by the ocean instead of the midwest but I would have rather had my dad there every week"