Modification for Custody/Support in Missouri

[LdiJ]

OK. The old decree is written so that:

She has legal and physical custody. It was conceded that, because he was so young when we divorced that my chances of getting custody at that time were between slim and none (he was 1 or so). So we focused on getting as much access as I could to him.

But, the decree has the standard "the two parties shall confer on issues of schooling, medical, religion, etc. In the event the parties cannot agree, the custodial parent (her) shall have the ability to decide". That's not verbatim, but pretty close. The way it's been implemented to this point was her telling me that she was going to do this, that or the other. If I didn't agree, she'd just say "too bad, I have the last say". So, in essence, right now, I don't have the legal right to enroll him into the school I am now. I don't have the right to approve a surgery. Or, in this instance, he's considering converting to our faith (which to this point she's blocked), but I can't actually help him (it would be HIS decision, NOT MINE!). In all of these issues, I've asked him what he wanted to do, and, as long as it was reasonable, which to this point it has been, we've worked to make it happen. But, the way it's written now, I'm just taking advantage of her apathy to make my son's life better. But I can't guarantee that apathy will continue. And, if it doesn't, I have nothing backing me up.

Child support ends upon "emancipation", which I always took to mean 18. However, I read the statutes over the weekend, and they define it otherwise, even going into detail about the child having to provide grades within a certain time frame or the CS ceases, never to be restarted. It also says at that point they can pay the kid directly, which I'd be happy to oblige currently.

If there are other ways to approach this, I'm all for it. My goal has been, from the beginning, to make this as easy on everyone as I can be. I've paid support for 2 months that he wasn't even with her. I've offered to accept anything she can do. I've made sure she's informed of EVERY event, school function, grades, etc (which is way more than I was ever given). In other words, I've gone out of my way to treat her the way I'd want to be treated in her shoes...and I've BEEN in her shoes. But, I also need to make sure I don't leave myself open for a liability that far exceeds the costs.

In terms of me thinking the courts will care...well, I know better than that. But, if you look at my posts, I've never assumed that because she has those material things she could afford X in support. My determination of what she would pay was based off of a couple of online calculators I found that you entered your income, hers, and things like child care and insurance and it spits out a number. I used a guesstimate of what she makes to get my numbers. But, my issue is that she is saying she can't afford to pay ANYTHING. And, I have to believe the courts would believe her responsibility to pay for her son exceeds her responsibility to the Audi dealer.

I'd welcome the spreadsheet. Every piece of info helps me make better decisions. Thank you on the issue with the FAFSA. I was fairly certain we could work that out, but not 100%. I've always claimed him as a deduction, so I knew he could go to Kansas schools for in-state, even if he graduated from a MO school.

So, as a wrap up, I'd welcome your spreadsheet and any other ideas of how to handle this without a modify order. I'll take a look, and then decide which way to go, or if I just want to bite the bullet and have an attorney do it.

To be perfectly honest, there is no way to handle custody (and it sounds like you strongly feel that you need custody) without doing it through court. If you and mom can come to an agreement about custody, and you use an attorney, you might be able to avoid a trip to court for the custody modification, but the child support is going to be the kicker.

If you insist on child support from mom, its almost guaranteed that she will claim that she never intended for the child to stay with you after the summer, and that you simply refused to return him. It will then become a contested custody case, and it may not be over before the child's 18th birthday, at which point the child will no longer be subject to custody orders.

 

[Sens55]

Wow. If that's true, then that's a real kick in the face. I've faced the prospect (and the threat) for 14 years that if I didn't pay support (by a certain date) I'd face possible arrest, check garnishment and all kinds of ugly things. But she can walk away and owe nothing? That's sucks! When we were divorced I didn't have a nickel to my name. I was just out of the military and had a low-paying job (that I lost not long afterwards when the factory closed). I busted my buns to make sure all the money owed was paid and then some. By the time he came over here, I was basically paying for everything! I avoided her taking me back to court for more money by offering direct support, i.e, if he needs lunches at school, I'll buy them. He needs glasses, or school clothes or braces, I'll pay. I was paying many times my actual CS amount each month, and even THAT was still a few hundred dollars! And now she's making a fairly decent living, and she can walk away with no liability? That's pathetic.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Sometimes, it's almost better to leave things alone for a little bit. Now, if mom isn't filing a Family Access Motion to have the child returned by the end of the first quarter, you might be able to prevail in courts. Then you have the case of status quo on your side.

 

[Sens55]

OK. I just thought of something after reading the last post. I've had 2 people say that the next tactic from her side would be to claim that she never intended to let him stay and that I refused to return him. How valid would that be?

I would think it would be relatively easy to show that he'd been with me, by her consent, since April. And that she never made a police report, or called him or me, or emailed or texted either of us, for him to return. And, considering he's 16 and has a car, he could have left anytime he wanted and I would not/could not stop him.

But, if she claims that AFTER getting served, how much weight could the judge possibly give that? She has a document stating she had custody. It clearly states when he should be back. If it were an issue, it would have been VERY easy for her to call the police, tell them I didn't return him and I'd have been arrested a month ago! Not to mention I have emails from her showing she agreed to him staying here and going to the school he does. And, I'll do what I can to keep my son from having to testify. But, if need be, he can clearly state that she packed his bags for him and when he returned to get his stuff a week later, she had it sitting on the porch and that in 6 months she hasn't called him once to ask him to visit, stay or live with her.

 

[LdiJ]

OK. I just thought of something after reading the last post. I've had 2 people say that the next tactic from her side would be to claim that she never intended to let him stay and that I refused to return him. How valid would that be?

I would think it would be relatively easy to show that he'd been with me, by her consent, since April. And that she never made a police report, or called him or me, or emailed or texted either of us, for him to return. And, considering he's 16 and has a car, he could have left anytime he wanted and I would not/could not stop him.

But, if she claims that AFTER getting served, how much weight could the judge possibly give that? She has a document stating she had custody. It clearly states when he should be back. If it were an issue, it would have been VERY easy for her to call the police, tell them I didn't return him and I'd have been arrested a month ago! Not to mention I have emails from her showing she agreed to him staying here and going to the school he does. And, I'll do what I can to keep my son from having to testify. But, if need be, he can clearly state that she packed his bags for him and when he returned to get his stuff a week later, she had it sitting on the porch and that in 6 months she hasn't called him once to ask him to visit, stay or live with her.

You are wrong that you would have been arrested. The police might have tried to talk you into returning the child, but with a 16 year old most likely the police would have just told mom to take it to court.

Yes, your son could testify differently, but 1) that means your son would have to testify against his mother in court, (which is a bad thing to do to a child) and 2) the judge might not believe him because clearly your child wants to live with you.

You couldn't get away without paying child support, because you were court ordered to do so. Mom is not court ordered to do so, therefore she can get away with it, up until the point where the court orders her to pay.

You would be getting vastly different advice if you hadn't stated that your child was 16, almost 17. You are getting this advice because at age 18, your son is no longer subject to custody orders, and mom might honestly be able to drag this out until he is 18...and your son might end up having to go back to mom's in the meantime.

However, if you give this longer, so that you at least have "status quo" on your side, you would have much better luck with a judge giving YOU temporary custody pending the outcome of the case...and if you give up on the idea of child support, you may be able to get the custody issue handled very quickly and expeditiously.

 

[Sens55]

Thanks guys. I do understand his age plays a role. But, I guess I was raised to believe that right is right.

I won't have my son testify. He doesn't need that in his life. He's doing fantastic and there's no need for him to get in the middle. I've tried hard to shield him from as much of this as I can. But, at 16 he's not a little kid. He knows whats going on, if not in detail, at least in concept. It's got to be painful for him having been kicked out of his mom's for something pretty trivial. I've talked with him about it when's he's felt like talking, but he seems to want to put it behind him, so we don't dwell on the past.

But, in the end, I do want to say this to any people that are facing losing custody of their children. I know how hard it can be. And, when we first divorced, I spent a lot of time and energy fighting her over every little thing. A few things happened that made me reevaluate my priorities. I realized that having physical custody was secondary in importance to being his father. I had to decide what was more important, being his father or "possessing" him in my house. Well, I realized that, to me, the definition of a father for my son was when he turned 16, was becoming a man, was a little confused and needed advice and felt confident in turning to me...THAT was my definition of being a true father. So I worked from that day forward (he was 4 or 5 at the time) in building that kind of relationship. I refused to talk bad about his mom in front of him. I wouldn't let him talk bad about her either. I spent the last 2 years acting as a mediator for their arguments.

I endured 14 years of torture handing him over every other weekend. I would go into a fit of depression at the end of every summer. I felt as if my heart was being ripped from my chest. I prayed endlessly that I was doing it right. I had the means to fight custody a long time ago. I held off. And then, in the blink of an eye, he was here. Sometimes it feels like a dream. But all those years of trying to do the right thing, even when the selfish side of me wanted to strike out, paid off. Having him here for the last 5 1/2 months has been wonderful. No fights, no troubles, just a family. It truly is an answered prayer. So, don't lose hope. Do the right thing. Someday, someway it'll pay off.

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks guys. I do understand his age plays a role. But, I guess I was raised to believe that right is right.

I was also raised to believe that right is right, so I can understand your frustration. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on someone's personal opinion, our constitution requires "due process".

I endured 14 years of torture handing him over every other weekend. I would go into a fit of depression at the end of every summer. I felt as if my heart was being ripped from my chest. I prayed endlessly that I was doing it right. I had the means to fight custody a long time ago. I held off. And then, in the blink of an eye, he was here. Sometimes it feels like a dream. But all those years of trying to do the right thing, even when the selfish side of me wanted to strike out, paid off. Having him here for the last 5 1/2 months has been wonderful. No fights, no troubles, just a family. It truly is an answered prayer. So, don't lose hope. Do the right thing. Someday, someway it'll pay off.

And that is what is the most important. You have him now, he is with you and doing well. That is what is the most important thing to preserve. If you decide to do something legally, wait until he has been with you for at least a full six months, so that you have "status quo" on your side.

 

[CJane]

This is what I've been trying to splain to you.

It's not that I think it's OK, or even that Moms are favored. This is advice that is without gender bias. Sometimes, when you have what you WANT (in this case, kiddo living with you and doing well) what's LEGALLY CORRECT (you having custody and Mom paying support) is, for whatever reason, impractical to pursue.

You don't have legal custody, so technically you can't make medical / educational decisions. But the consequence for doing so would be if Mom filed contempt and could prove that you did it maliciously. The school doesn't care, or they wouldn't have enrolled Jr to begin with. The doctor/hospital isn't going to ask for your decree before treating your son.

My suggestion is that you send a letter to the division of CSE that handles your case.

Family Support Division
11 South Water
Liberty MO 64068
ATTN: Ron Fuenfhausen

Fax: (816) 792-7667
Attn: Family Support

State that pursuant to RSMo 452.340.2, child support should be abated for any period of time in excess of 30 days that the other parent voluntarily relinquishes custody to you. (Section 452-340 Child support, how allocated--factors t) Inform them that the child has been living with you since XX/XX/XXXX and include the enrollment paperwork that shows your address.

If they turn you down, come back.

If they turn you down, come back.

 

[Sens55]

OK. I've decided to let this rest. After taking all of your advice, and cornering a friend who's an attorney for the "what if" scenario, I now realize my biggest concern isn't as big as I thought it to be. I guess after 14 years of her having the ability to make all the decisions concerning him with, or without, my input, I felt that I had no rights. I was concerned that I could be arrested for failing to comply with a court order (she attempted it once before).

But, I guess that because he's here, the worst that could happen is she calls the police, but they wouldn't necessarily arrest me (again, I almost 'went downtown' once, so I was gunshy). But, him living here for so long and being older, most feel they would't enforce it, just ask her to file a court order. And, if she wants to go to court, well...I guess THEN I'll take the gloves off and bury her.

I'll make one more attempt to reach her to pay something. If she doesn't want to do it...well, then I guess she can't complain if he doesn't call her. I won't hold him back from her (in fact, I constantly encourage him to call her). But, if she can't be bothered, I can hardly put the onus on him to be more adult than her...although it could be argued he already is.

Again, thanks to all that have contributed. This is a long, and somewhat confusing ordeal. I've never understood why and how all this is happening. And, I guess if she'd have offered me what I'm offering her, I'd have jumped on it in a heartbeat. But, as they say, if we were really good at working out our differences, we probably wouldn't be divorced now would we?

 

[Gryphon68]

Check the jusidiction

I am assuming that the original Divorce decree was from Clay county. You may find that the original court that decreed the divorce is the one that has to handle modifications even if you live outside the state. I live in and was divorced in Missouri so I have had to look this up myself.

Check RSMO-Chapter 452

“Missouri Revised Statutes 452.450 1. A court of this state which is competent to decide child custody matters has jurisdiction to make a child custody determination by initial or modification decree if:
(1)This state:
(b) Had been the child's home state within six months before commencement of the proceeding and the child is absent from this state for any reason, and a parent or person acting as parent continues to live in this state;”

Also if the original degree for child support was from Missouri you may find that Missouri Statutes govern the decree. These statutes may assist. Like....

“Missouri Revised Statutes 452.340 2. The obligation of the parent ordered to make support payments shall abate, in whole or in part, for such periods of time in excess of thirty consecutive days that the other parent has voluntarily relinquished physical custody of a child to the parent ordered to pay child support, notwithstanding any periods of visitation or temporary physical and legal or physical or legal custody pursuant to a judgment of dissolution or legal separation or any modification thereof. In a IV-D case, the family support division may determine the amount of the abatement pursuant to this subsection for any child support order and shall record the amount of abatement in the automated child support system record established pursuant to chapter 454, RSMo. If the case is not a IV-D case and upon court order, the circuit clerk shall record the amount of abatement in the automated child support system record established in chapter 454, RSMo. “

 

[sharice]

HHHMMM,,,answers

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? - Missouri

Sorry up front for the long post, but here goes. I've been divorced for over 14 years in Clay County, MO. My son from that marriage is 16, almost 17. He's lived with my ex since the divorce. I had a fairly standard visitation, summers, every other weekend and every other Wednesday. But, I've worked hard to get as much access as I could (volunteered to coach, etc) over the years. As he got older, bought him his cell phone and a text package so we could stay in contact. As a result, my son and I are very close.

I remarried 11 years ago and have a child from that marriage (9 yo) and moved from Clay County to Johnson County, KS (both in the Metro Kansas City area) . My current wife has always loved my son and we've worked hard to create a family environment for him here. We're all very close. He'd made it clear a couple of years ago he'd prefer to live with us, but being in High School and having known his classmates since Kindergarten, he didn't want to have to leave them. I understood and didn't want to move him during High School either, as I felt it might open him up to negative influences.

Well, fate is a fickle mistress. I always knew my ex was controlling, and might have difficulties with a teenager spreading his wings, but it was worse than that. Keep in mind, he's a good kid. Straight A student, no drugs, no alcohol, never been in fights or trouble at all. One Friday night he wants to stay out with his friends until midnight at a public place. She isn't sure "she can trust him" and says "no." He's upset, he stays out anyway. As a result, she calls me at 7 am the next morning to say she's sending him to live with me for a while. I was shocked, but went along. I figured by the end of the weekend they'd both mellow out, we'd all talk and he'd go back. The next day he was ready to meet with her to discuss it, but she "was still upset and wasn't ready to meet him". She felt a week at my place would be best. After a week, she STILL wasn't ready, so we agreed he'd stay at my place for the rest of the school year and drive back and forth to school (45 miles one way!!!). Since he stayed summers with me, we'd work it all out then.

During the summer, he said he wanted to stay with us and she agreed.

In the past, our relationship was sometimes contentious, but mostly civil. We'd made many "modifications" to our agreement by mutual consent and it worked well for 14 years. So, when we discussed it, she said she'd pay me some money in August (when summer custody would normally switch back for the school year). He was accepted into a prep school and prepared for our first school year together. Then she decided that 1) she wouldn't sign the paperwork acknowledging custody now resided with me and 2) said she "couldn't pay child support"! I told her to just tell me what she could afford and, if it was reasonable, I'd agree. She said she couldn't pay ANYTHING! Of course, I think that's totally unacceptable.

So, I attempted to file here in Johnson County, KS for modification but now know that, because she still resides in Clay County, MO, I have to file there. In KS, I can file Pro Se and it'll cost me less than $100. I can download the papers online or pick them up at the court. But, when I called Clay County, they said they didn't know of anything to give me and that I HAD to get an attorney. I spoke to 2 attorneys and they want $1000 up front, and it'd probably be more than that befores it's over.

So, here's my concern. First, he's almost 17. Secondly, I know she's not doing well financially, and based off of most of the calculators I've seen online, I'd only get $200 to $400/month. If I spend $2000 to get $200, I'll barely break even. If I push for a lot more money, I'm afraid I'll bury her, and my son will resent me for "doing it to her". And, I don't want to bankrupt her. I just want some help. After enrolling him in the school thinking we'd get some support, we're struggling now!

Additionally, although I know custody has changed "de facto" because he's been with me for 5 months now and she not only consented, she ASKED him to. But, without a court order, or something signed by her, I really don't have anything showing legally that I am the custodial parent if I have to make any legal decisions (and I'm not even going to get into enrolling in college issues!) Secondly, although I paid her directly, I don't have anything "protecting" me from owing her child support.

So, first off, is there anyplace I can go to get the modification forms? I've looked online, but haven't seen anything in particular. I did ask the Clerk of Courts, and they did say, if I got a hold of it, they'd accept it with the filing fee. And, is there anything else I can do? It'd be easy if she'd see reason and just do the right thing. But, if she won't, I don't know if I have any other choice but to spend a lot of money to do something that, in my mind, is a pretty clear cut issue.....custody has changed and she owes support.

Thanks,

I am in the exact position you are, only I am the mother.
I haven't seen her in a month, don't have her cell phone number they gave her. ( She had a phone there that was from me, but I shut it off due to her smart mouth). She is 16, and will be 17in February.
Financially, it is not in your best interest to hire an attorney. Definitely file an Motion to Quash, to stop any support you are paying, minimal cost to file and it will go through.
School, who choose to place him in a private school? If it was solely you, and there was no agreement, then you should pay for it. Courts won't make her.
My ex makes 3 times my income and I have been giving him his child support back because I'm being nice. Now he has served me with Modification, and wants child support from me,,,SERIOUSLY?! $240 a month. He is doing this modification as his own representation. The others are correct, if your son is happy, leave it alone. Maybe talk to him about how he feels about you getting child support from her and why. He is old enough to ask, it effects him.
Otherwise, sounds like you have worked hard to make a happy home and take good care of your son. But remember this, that is his mom. Boys are very loyal to their mom's (usually) and he is a teenager. His thoughts and feelings are going to change tomorrow and in 6 mos. Do your best to keep your home happy and stable, with in the parameters that you can control. Let the rest go.
Best of Luck to you,

Shari

 

[Proserpina]

I am in the exact position you are, only I am the mother.
I haven't seen her in a month, don't have her cell phone number they gave her. ( She had a phone there that was from me, but I shut it off due to her smart mouth). She is 16, and will be 17in February.
Financially, it is not in your best interest to hire an attorney. Definitely file an Motion to Quash, to stop any support you are paying, minimal cost to file and it will go through.
School, who choose to place him in a private school? If it was solely you, and there was no agreement, then you should pay for it. Courts won't make her.
My ex makes 3 times my income and I have been giving him his child support back because I'm being nice. Now he has served me with Modification, and wants child support from me,,,SERIOUSLY?! $240 a month. He is doing this modification as his own representation. The others are correct, if your son is happy, leave it alone. Maybe talk to him about how he feels about you getting child support from her and why. He is old enough to ask, it effects him.
Otherwise, sounds like you have worked hard to make a happy home and take good care of your son. But remember this, that is his mom. Boys are very loyal to their mom's (usually) and he is a teenager. His thoughts and feelings are going to change tomorrow and in 6 mos. Do your best to keep your home happy and stable, with in the parameters that you can control. Let the rest go.
Best of Luck to you,

Shari

You did note the date of the thread, right?

If you a legal question, please start your own.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? - Missouri

Sorry up front for the long post, but here goes. I've been divorced for over 14 years in Clay County, MO. My son from that marriage is 16, almost 17. He's lived with my ex since the divorce. I had a fairly standard visitation, summers, every other weekend and every other Wednesday. But, I've worked hard to get as much access as I could (volunteered to coach, etc) over the years. As he got older, bought him his cell phone and a text package so we could stay in contact. As a result, my son and I are very close.

I remarried 11 years ago and have a child from that marriage (9 yo) and moved from Clay County to Johnson County, KS (both in the Metro Kansas City area) . My current wife has always loved my son and we've worked hard to create a family environment for him here. We're all very close. He'd made it clear a couple of years ago he'd prefer to live with us, but being in High School and having known his classmates since Kindergarten, he didn't want to have to leave them. I understood and didn't want to move him during High School either, as I felt it might open him up to negative influences.

Well, fate is a fickle mistress. I always knew my ex was controlling, and might have difficulties with a teenager spreading his wings, but it was worse than that. Keep in mind, he's a good kid. Straight A student, no drugs, no alcohol, never been in fights or trouble at all. One Friday night he wants to stay out with his friends until midnight at a public place. She isn't sure "she can trust him" and says "no." He's upset, he stays out anyway. As a result, she calls me at 7 am the next morning to say she's sending him to live with me for a while. I was shocked, but went along. I figured by the end of the weekend they'd both mellow out, we'd all talk and he'd go back. The next day he was ready to meet with her to discuss it, but she "was still upset and wasn't ready to meet him". She felt a week at my place would be best. After a week, she STILL wasn't ready, so we agreed he'd stay at my place for the rest of the school year and drive back and forth to school (45 miles one way!!!). Since he stayed summers with me, we'd work it all out then.

During the summer, he said he wanted to stay with us and she agreed.

In the past, our relationship was sometimes contentious, but mostly civil. We'd made many "modifications" to our agreement by mutual consent and it worked well for 14 years. So, when we discussed it, she said she'd pay me some money in August (when summer custody would normally switch back for the school year). He was accepted into a prep school and prepared for our first school year together. Then she decided that 1) she wouldn't sign the paperwork acknowledging custody now resided with me and 2) said she "couldn't pay child support"! I told her to just tell me what she could afford and, if it was reasonable, I'd agree. She said she couldn't pay ANYTHING! Of course, I think that's totally unacceptable.

So, I attempted to file here in Johnson County, KS for modification but now know that, because she still resides in Clay County, MO, I have to file there. In KS, I can file Pro Se and it'll cost me less than $100. I can download the papers online or pick them up at the court. But, when I called Clay County, they said they didn't know of anything to give me and that I HAD to get an attorney. I spoke to 2 attorneys and they want $1000 up front, and it'd probably be more than that befores it's over.

So, here's my concern. First, he's almost 17. Secondly, I know she's not doing well financially, and based off of most of the calculators I've seen online, I'd only get $200 to $400/month. If I spend $2000 to get $200, I'll barely break even. If I push for a lot more money, I'm afraid I'll bury her, and my son will resent me for "doing it to her". And, I don't want to bankrupt her. I just want some help. After enrolling him in the school thinking we'd get some support, we're struggling now!

Additionally, although I know custody has changed "de facto" because he's been with me for 5 months now and she not only consented, she ASKED him to. But, without a court order, or something signed by her, I really don't have anything showing legally that I am the custodial parent if I have to make any legal decisions (and I'm not even going to get into enrolling in college issues!) Secondly, although I paid her directly, I don't have anything "protecting" me from owing her child support.

So, first off, is there anyplace I can go to get the modification forms? I've looked online, but haven't seen anything in particular. I did ask the Clerk of Courts, and they did say, if I got a hold of it, they'd accept it with the filing fee. And, is there anything else I can do? It'd be easy if she'd see reason and just do the right thing. But, if she won't, I don't know if I have any other choice but to spend a lot of money to do something that, in my mind, is a pretty clear cut issue.....custody has changed and she owes support.

Thanks,

Of course its only right that she have to pay child support. However, I can also see why it might be almost impossible for her to do so in the short term. To both lose part of your household income, plus have to pay more out, both at the same time, really does a major number on someone's budget.

You are going to have to file for custody and child support. You cannot just file for child support because legally mom still has custody.

 

[Mnemosyne]

Of course its only right that she have to pay child support. However, I can also see why it might be almost impossible for her to do so in the short term. To both lose part of your household income, plus have to pay more out, both at the same time, really does a major number on someone's budget.

You are going to have to file for custody and child support. You cannot just file for child support because legally mom still has custody.

*cough* Do you ever get the feeling that you've answered this poster before? *cough*