Not being flexible with visitation, for childs events.

[missdd22]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I have full legal custody. My daughter is 6. Her dad was out of her life for 2.5 years. In Sept. 08 he was granted supervised visits. Those continued once a month until Feb. 09. March 14th was their first unsupervised visit. Their next visit is March 28th. This weekend my daughter has a birthday party, which is a classmate and also family friend. She also has a talent show practice. When I found out about these two events and knew they were on days that she had visits I told her, her dad can take her to these events. She told me she did not want him taking her, and asked if I could just take her. When I told her dad this, he said absolutely not. He will be taking her. If the case was that he has been actively in her life a lot longer, then I would enforce him taking her. But since this is a new change in her life, I feel we should take her feelings into consideration, to a certain extent. His argument is that her opinion doesn't matter until she is 12, legally. She cried a lot after her first visit. He said she is happy when she is on her visit. Of course she is, he plays "disneyland dad" with her. We only have 5 business days until the next visit, so I don't know if I can file a court date. I don't even know that I want to take this to court, I feel we should be flexible with her feelings, and be adults and be able to come to a mutual agreement. Would it be wrong of me to go to the birhtday party, when he takes her? The party is a adults VS. children soccer game, so she was so excited to play a soccer game with me. I am so confused. I don't know my legal rights. And I do not have an attorney.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I have full legal custody. My daughter is 6. Her dad was out of her life for 2.5 years. In Sept. 08 he was granted supervised visits. Those continued once a month until Feb. 09. March 14th was their first unsupervised visit. Their next visit is March 28th. This weekend my daughter has a birthday party, which is a classmate and also family friend. She also has a talent show practice. When I found out about these two events and knew they were on days that she had visits I told her, her dad can take her to these events. She told me she did not want him taking her, and asked if I could just take her. When I told her dad this, he said absolutely not. He will be taking her. If the case was that he has been actively in her life a lot longer, then I would enforce him taking her. But since this is a new change in her life, I feel we should take her feelings into consideration, to a certain extent. His argument is that her opinion doesn't matter until she is 12, legally. She cried a lot after her first visit. He said she is happy when she is on her visit. Of course she is, he plays "disneyland dad" with her. We only have 5 business days until the next visit, so I don't know if I can file a court date. I don't even know that I want to take this to court, I feel we should be flexible with her feelings, and be adults and be able to come to a mutual agreement. Would it be wrong of me to go to the birhtday party, when he takes her? The party is a adults VS. children soccer game, so she was so excited to play a soccer game with me. I am so confused. I don't know my legal rights. And I do not have an attorney.

Have you considered seeing if dad would be interested in trading days or weekends?

 

[missdd22]

Have you considered seeing if dad would be interested in trading days or weekends?

Yes I sent him an email, giving him option of switching weekends, picking her up the day before (when she gets out of school) to make up the lost hours, or just having me take her to the events, and he can pick her up immediately when she is done. He just won't cooperate.

 

[MichaCA]

You will have to follow your court order. When you don't like the visitation outlined, all you can do is like LdiJ suggested, write him and make an offer to change. But when dad says no, he has the right. You will have to learn to be careful when making all plans, get used to looking at your calender as to when its dads' weekend, and making no plans, nor leading your daughter to believe in any way, that maybe you can change things. That is part of what upsets her...as she was led to believe you would be there.

She will get over this. And it sounds like she has fun with him, perhaps she will have a good time. Perhaps you can plan another special activity with her on your time, thats what I have done in situations like this, where child really wanted me to be part of something on her time with her dad.

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I have full legal custody. My daughter is 6. Her dad was out of her life for 2.5 years. In Sept. 08 he was granted supervised visits. Those continued once a month until Feb. 09. March 14th was their first unsupervised visit. Their next visit is March 28th. This weekend my daughter has a birthday party, which is a classmate and also family friend. She also has a talent show practice. When I found out about these two events and knew they were on days that she had visits I told her, her dad can take her to these events. She told me she did not want him taking her, and asked if I could just take her. When I told her dad this, he said absolutely not. He will be taking her. If the case was that he has been actively in her life a lot longer, then I would enforce him taking her. But since this is a new change in her life, I feel we should take her feelings into consideration, to a certain extent. His argument is that her opinion doesn't matter until she is 12, legally. She cried a lot after her first visit. He said she is happy when she is on her visit. Of course she is, he plays "disneyland dad" with her. We only have 5 business days until the next visit, so I don't know if I can file a court date. I don't even know that I want to take this to court, I feel we should be flexible with her feelings, and be adults and be able to come to a mutual agreement. Would it be wrong of me to go to the birhtday party, when he takes her? The party is a adults VS. children soccer game, so she was so excited to play a soccer game with me. I am so confused. I don't know my legal rights. And I do not have an attorney.

Dad is wrong -- her opinion does not matter legally until she is 18. Until then you have a COURT ORDER. And the court order controls. Truthfully you should stay away from the party if you know for a fact he is taking her because that could interfere with dad's new visitation. But dad does NOT have to take her to the party at all.

 

[Drake01]

Dad is wrong -- her opinion does not matter legally until she is 18. Until then you have a COURT ORDER. And the court order controls. Truthfully you should stay away from the party if you know for a fact he is taking her because that could interfere with dad's new visitation. But dad does NOT have to take her to the party at all.

That's not right either. Her opinion matters as much as the judge hearing the case wants to give it weight. There are no rules as to how much weight a judge can put on a child's preferences, or age scales as to how much weight those prefences will carry. Like everything else in a kangraoo court system whose only standard is the subjective and abstract "child's best interests" the milage you get will vary wildly.
No, he doesn't have to take her this time. However, non-custodial parents that regularly refuse to cart their children around to activities can expect to have their visitation reduced.

 

[Just Blue]

That's not right either. Her opinion matters as much as the judge hearing the case wants to give it weight. There are no rules as to how much weight a judge can put on a child's preferences, or age scales as to how much weight those prefences will carry. Like everything else in a kangraoo court system whose only standard is the subjective and abstract "child's best interests" the milage you get will vary wildly.
No, he doesn't have to take her this time. However, non-custodial parents that regularly refuse to cart their children around to activities can expect to have their visitation reduced.

Really? Got any case law that back up your assertions?

 

[LdiJ]

Really? Got any case law that back up your assertions?

I actually don't disagree with Drake...a family court judge does have quite a bit of latitude to decide what is in the best interest of the child, and therefore does have the authority to give the child's wishes however much weight the judge feels is appropriate.

However, most judges don't give much weight to the children's preferences unless the children are teens...and even then some judges won't give much weight to their preferences.

 

[Just Blue]

I actually don't disagree with Drake...a family court judge does have quite a bit of latitude to decide what is in the best interest of the child, and therefore does have the authority to give the child's wishes however much weight the judge feels is appropriate.

However, most judges don't give much weight to the children's preferences unless the children are teens...and even then some judges won't give much weight to their preferences.

In this situation the child is SIX. Have you EVER heard of a court taking away custody or visitation time because the Judge listened to a SIX YEAR OLD "needs" to go to a party or soccer match??

 

[penelope10]

OK I'm a little confused. The way I read the thread was that daughter did not want Dad taking her to the events. Mom asked if he would trade with her and he said absolutely no. That HE would take her to these events.

If this is the case, why is this a problem? It is his weekend and is will be taking the child to these events.....I also see no problem with Mom showing up to the party since it is an adult-child soccer game and sounds like Mom was also invited to the party. Both grown ups will simply have to grin and bear it during the party for the sake of kiddo.

 

[Ohiogal]

That's not right either. Her opinion matters as much as the judge hearing the case wants to give it weight. There are no rules as to how much weight a judge can put on a child's preferences, or age scales as to how much weight those prefences will carry. Like everything else in a kangraoo court system whose only standard is the subjective and abstract "child's best interests" the milage you get will vary wildly.
No, he doesn't have to take her this time. However, non-custodial parents that regularly refuse to cart their children around to activities can expect to have their visitation reduced.

Dud the child does NOT choice or have a LEGAL choice until she turns 18. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. And there is caselaw that states how much weight is put on a child's preferences -- it deals with maturity but at no time is the CHILD's choice the only factor. And no where did it say that this father was refusing to cart his child anywhere. He was refusing to let mom and the child dictate. Which is his right. And this is not a normal activity. It is a party.

 

[summerdawn]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I have full legal custody. My daughter is 6. Her dad was out of her life for 2.5 years. In Sept. 08 he was granted supervised visits. Those continued once a month until Feb. 09. March 14th was their first unsupervised visit. Their next visit is March 28th. This weekend my daughter has a birthday party, which is a classmate and also family friend. She also has a talent show practice. When I found out about these two events and knew they were on days that she had visits I told her, her dad can take her to these events. She told me she did not want him taking her, and asked if I could just take her. When I told her dad this, he said absolutely not. He will be taking her. If the case was that he has been actively in her life a lot longer, then I would enforce him taking her. But since this is a new change in her life, I feel we should take her feelings into consideration, to a certain extent. His argument is that her opinion doesn't matter until she is 12, legally. She cried a lot after her first visit. He said she is happy when she is on her visit. Of course she is, he plays "disneyland dad" with her. We only have 5 business days until the next visit, so I don't know if I can file a court date. I don't even know that I want to take this to court, I feel we should be flexible with her feelings, and be adults and be able to come to a mutual agreement. Would it be wrong of me to go to the birhtday party, when he takes her? The party is a adults VS. children soccer game, so she was so excited to play a soccer game with me. I am so confused. I don't know my legal rights. And I do not have an attorney.

I think you should have talked it over with dad befre telling her he could take her. By her thinking he could possibly take her it could really be playing on guilt. my 6 year old and 4 year old are not informed of any fun things that they have been invited to on dad's time because I know he is not usually flexible with his time and I know he won't take them even though I ask. What they don't know can't hurt them.

I would NOT take this to court.

 

[missdd22]

So far in our case, the judge has taken my daughters thoughts into consideration. Her dad seems to always argue anything, and everything. And the judge sees that. I think that discussing things to her dad before she knows about it, is a great idea. And I will remember that in the future. Thanks The only thing is, this particular birthday party invitation was sent home in the homework folder...like the majority of notices. So she had brought it to me. Thank you to everyone who gave me advice on this. I am a new user here, and I am thankful I found this forum.

 

[stealth2]

So far in our case, the judge has taken my daughters thoughts into consideration. Her dad seems to always argue anything, and everything. And the judge sees that. I think that discussing things to her dad before she knows about it, is a great idea. And I will remember that in the future. Thanks The only thing is, this particular birthday party invitation was sent home in the homework folder...like the majority of notices. So she had brought it to me. Thank you to everyone who gave me advice on this. I am a new user here, and I am thankful I found this forum.

Seriously - this is where you say "Okay, sweetie - I'll take a look later what we have that day." and then talk to Dad. He doesn't HAVE to take the kiddo, and no judge is going to ding him for a one-time refusal to take the child to a birthday party. For all you know, he has plans of his own that day.

 

[cyjeff]

To circle back...

A court order is an ORDER. The default answer is that you follow it.

However, if BOTH parties agree, there can be occasionally modifications without the court caring to intervene.

In this case, the party is on dad's scheduled visitation. Therefore, dad makes the call.

Period. Even if.

You have already asked to switch. He said no.

I would ask if you could participate in the party WITH HER and WITH HIM. Look at it this way... this could be seen, from your daughter's point of view, as Mom and Dad being together without drama... both for her benefit... and then, afterward, she goes with Dad to finish out visitation.

Co-parenting requires adults to make adult decisions. This means that you have to associate in positive and adult ways with a person you don't like very much.

Okay. Deal with it.

You made a lover into an enemy. Take this as the first step towards making him a friend... your daughter will thank you for it.