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Police force to remove a 12 1\2 year old?

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free2bmom

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota:(
My son is 12 1\2 and has never had unsupervised visits with his dad. Now the judge ordered it unsupervised and said in the order that "police will assist to ensure that the child be removed from my vehicle to his father's". I had this happen today when my son was unwilling to get out of the car. Brief history: My ex molested my now 19 year old at the age of 13 to 15. Charges were filed then dismissed due to her age. At least that is what they tell me. Now the judge goes from super to unsupervised visits. Even though the County determined that ABUSE did occur! Up to this point my ex would scream and threaten me in front of our son. He had me served with an HRO right in front of him, he then yelled that I ran him over..and it goes on. This has been a bad experience for my son and all I want is to keep him safe, happy and shelter him from all these bad happenings. Judge ruled in his favor 1 week ago, because he lied in court to say I had not been showing up for court and now I have to go back for a contempt charge. Yet I have documentation and ICR Reports to prove I was where I was suppose to be and in fact he has not shown up for 4 months. When I got served it was untimely service, legal aid would not help me so I hired my previous legal aid atty for a $500 retainer. We did not get our paperwork in on time and Judge did not listen to our testimony at all. I was so unfairly treated at the hearing. Yet She is the Judge who signed the papers in an untimely fashion. My ex made it sound like I only showed up for 2 visits, yet I will prove him wrong come April13. What can I do until then? Has anyone ever heard of having police handcuff a 12 year old to get him out of a car to go on a visit with a dad who keeps yelling at him and his mother?:confused:
 


Proserpina

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota:(
My son is 12 1\2 and has never had unsupervised visits with his dad. Now the judge ordered it unsupervised and said in the order that "police will assist to ensure that the child be removed from my vehicle to his father's". I had this happen today when my son was unwilling to get out of the car. Brief history: My ex molested my now 19 year old at the age of 13 to 15. Charges were filed then dismissed due to her age. At least that is what they tell me. Now the judge goes from super to unsupervised visits. Even though the County determined that ABUSE did occur!

But the abuse did NOT happen to the 12 year old - correct?

The abuse happened to your now-adult FEMALE child, correct?

Charges were dismissed because of her age? That doesn't sound accurate, but okay.

Up to this point my ex would scream and threaten me in front of our son. He had me served with an HRO right in front of him, he then yelled that I ran him over..and it goes on. This has been a bad experience for my son and all I want is to keep him safe, happy and shelter him from all these bad happenings. Judge ruled in his favor 1 week ago, because he lied in court to say I had not been showing up for court and now I have to go back for a contempt charge. Yet I have documentation and ICR Reports to prove I was where I was suppose to be and in fact he has not shown up for 4 months. When I got served it was untimely service, legal aid would not help me so I hired my previous legal aid atty for a $500 retainer. We did not get our paperwork in on time and Judge did not listen to our testimony at all. I was so unfairly treated at the hearing. Yet She is the Judge who signed the papers in an untimely fashion. My ex made it sound like I only showed up for 2 visits, yet I will prove him wrong come April13. What can I do until then? Has anyone ever heard of having police handcuff a 12 year old to get him out of a car to go on a visit with a dad who keeps yelling at him and his mother?:confused:


You're probably going to get two different responses from the folk here.

There are those who will tell you that you should abide by the court order no matter what, unless there's an emergency.

And there are some who will advise you that in this circumstance, withholding visitation would be "okay".

Given that THIS child has not been abused, and given that the judge in your case has ordered that Dad be allowed unsupervised visitation, I'd probably go with "send the child per the court order".

Hopefully you've ALL been involved with counseling?
 

sandyclaus

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota:(
My son is 12 1\2 and has never had unsupervised visits with his dad. Now the judge ordered it unsupervised and said in the order that "police will assist to ensure that the child be removed from my vehicle to his father's". I had this happen today when my son was unwilling to get out of the car. Brief history: My ex molested my now 19 year old at the age of 13 to 15. Charges were filed then dismissed due to her age. At least that is what they tell me. Now the judge goes from super to unsupervised visits. Even though the County determined that ABUSE did occur! Up to this point my ex would scream and threaten me in front of our son. He had me served with an HRO right in front of him, he then yelled that I ran him over..and it goes on. This has been a bad experience for my son and all I want is to keep him safe, happy and shelter him from all these bad happenings. Judge ruled in his favor 1 week ago, because he lied in court to say I had not been showing up for court and now I have to go back for a contempt charge. Yet I have documentation and ICR Reports to prove I was where I was suppose to be and in fact he has not shown up for 4 months. When I got served it was untimely service, legal aid would not help me so I hired my previous legal aid atty for a $500 retainer. We did not get our paperwork in on time and Judge did not listen to our testimony at all. I was so unfairly treated at the hearing. Yet She is the Judge who signed the papers in an untimely fashion. My ex made it sound like I only showed up for 2 visits, yet I will prove him wrong come April13. What can I do until then? Has anyone ever heard of having police handcuff a 12 year old to get him out of a car to go on a visit with a dad who keeps yelling at him and his mother?:confused:
WHY was the 12-1/2 year old unwilling to leave the car? Were they afraid of their father?

Was this child ever abused? If not, then why EXACTLY would this child be afraid of being with their father? (HINT: Did it have anything to do with you telling him that his father was going to abuse him, "just like he did with your sister"?)

As far as the alleged molestation of the older daughter, when exactly was the abuse reported? And if the judge dismissed those charges, was it because the statute of limitations on filing those charges had expired (my interpretation of "she was too old"), or was it actually because the allegations were unsubstantiated? (I tend to believe the latter, because of the fact that the judge even changed dad's visits from supervised to unsupervised, which would have only happened if they were convinced there was no danger of abuse to the younger child.)

As for the part about handcuffing the child, I seriously doubt that is going to happen. Police won't put handcuffs on people unless they are under arrest, or considered a threat to the officers or others around them.

Just based upon that statement, I am having a very difficult time believing that the entire problem with dad is with the alleged abuse of the older daughter. In fact, I happen to believe that the problems with the son refusing to get out of the car to visit dad has everything to do with your influence and nothing to do with an actual problem between the two of them. I also believe that you are making it all far more dramatic than it has to be because of some personal agenda you have against dad, and trying to put the kids squarely in the middle of the mess.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota:(
My son is 12 1\2 and has never had unsupervised visits with his dad. Now the judge ordered it unsupervised and said in the order that "police will assist to ensure that the child be removed from my vehicle to his father's". I had this happen today when my son was unwilling to get out of the car. Brief history: My ex molested my now 19 year old at the age of 13 to 15. Charges were filed then dismissed due to her age. At least that is what they tell me. Now the judge goes from super to unsupervised visits. Even though the County determined that ABUSE did occur! Up to this point my ex would scream and threaten me in front of our son. He had me served with an HRO right in front of him, he then yelled that I ran him over..and it goes on. This has been a bad experience for my son and all I want is to keep him safe, happy and shelter him from all these bad happenings. Judge ruled in his favor 1 week ago, because he lied in court to say I had not been showing up for court and now I have to go back for a contempt charge. Yet I have documentation and ICR Reports to prove I was where I was suppose to be and in fact he has not shown up for 4 months. When I got served it was untimely service, legal aid would not help me so I hired my previous legal aid atty for a $500 retainer. We did not get our paperwork in on time and Judge did not listen to our testimony at all. I was so unfairly treated at the hearing. Yet She is the Judge who signed the papers in an untimely fashion. My ex made it sound like I only showed up for 2 visits, yet I will prove him wrong come April13. What can I do until then? Has anyone ever heard of having police handcuff a 12 year old to get him out of a car to go on a visit with a dad who keeps yelling at him and his mother?:confused:
I happen to believe you.

However, Pro is right. If the judge is willing to take it so far that the judge orders that the police be present to force the child from one car to another, the judge might be willing to take it so far as to give dad custody if you do not comply with the judge's orders. Under the circumstances that is simply too big a risk for you to take.

Sandyclaus....don't you realize that siblings actually TALK to each other?...and that children are remarkably observant and understand far more than we realize as to what is going on?

If you think somebody should be blamed for the child being afraid of his sister's abuser you should likely blame the sister rather than the mother.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
How long has Dad had supervised visitation? Also, it is likely that the judge saw no reason for concern that the son would be molested.

And yes, if the judge ordered police assistance in facilitating visitation, to the point of having them make the child get out of one car and into the other? You should quite definitely follow the court order. You may need to sit the boy down and explain the reality to him - if he continues to refuse, he may end up living with Dad.

I'd suggest a cell phone for him, so he can call 911 if he is truly in danger (not to call you and cry that he misses you) - but remind him that that action is NOT a game and should ONLY be used in a real emergency. And counseling is a must. For your son, for you, and for your daughter.
 

davidmcbeth3

Senior Member
I could see officer's handcuffing the child to affect an easy extraction from a car ... especially a wild child.

I'm sure the kid loves police officers now.
 

divona2000

Senior Member
...As for the part about handcuffing the child, I seriously doubt that is going to happen...
...I had this happen today when my son was unwilling to get out of the car....Has anyone ever heard of having police handcuff a 12 year old to get him out of a car to go on a visit with a dad who keeps yelling at him and his mother?...
OP seems to be saying it has already happened...
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Am I the only one thinking that the OP may have some issues as well? The cascade failures on her part certainly lead a neutral party to decide against her.

As to the use of police to enforce a court order:

File:Inselian.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I really don't think we can compare the Elias Gonzales case to this one. Although that picture was horrendous.

I am also not sure of what you mean by cascade failures on mom's part. While dad apparently did not go to jail for abusing his daughter 6-7 years ago he apparently was only recently granted unsupervised visitation with his son. Therefore there must have been some fallout from the criminal charges, even if they ended up dismissed.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
I am also not sure of what you mean by cascade failures on mom's part
Dad's charges were dropped. What was the reason given?
My ex molested my now 19 year old at the age of 13 to 15. Charges were filed then dismissed due to her age.
Now, I don't think that was the real reason, do you?

Now, mom believes dad has no right to see son because she wants to keep him "safe, happy and shelter him from all these bad happenings". However a JUDGE decided against her and went so far to inform the OP the police will help enforce the order. I wonder if that is a standard thing the court says or was it mentioned specifically for the OP and what the court felt might be a problem. Sure enough, there were STILL problems where the police needed to come. (Called by dad I suspect.):
He had me served with an HRO right in front of him, he then yelled that I ran him over..and it goes on.
And:
Judge ruled in his favor 1 week ago, because he lied in court to say I had not been showing up for court and now I have to go back for a contempt charge.
It seems to me the OP does not agree with the judge on this matter. I wonder if she is complying with all court orders?
Yet I have documentation and ICR Reports to prove I was where I was suppose to be and in fact he has not shown up for 4 months.
Why didn't the court believe her when she claims official reports showing she complied when dad only "lied"?
When I got served it was untimely service, legal aid would not help me so I hired my previous legal aid atty for a $500 retainer.
Says the OP. She must have made the claim to the judge at some point.
We did not get our paperwork in on time and Judge did not listen to our testimony at all.
Do you believe this error was the first for the OP, or was the judge getting tired of her arguments and just used it as an excuse?
I was so unfairly treated at the hearing.
How unusual, the losing side feels they were mistreated by the neutral and detached magistrate who is hell bent on giving a molester unfettered access to a victim of the age he likes to molest.

All I'm saying is that there is more here than the side we're hearing. The OP is losing in court like crazy. Maybe not forever and maybe the short end of the stick has just been given to the OP for no reason repeatedly. Maybe.
 

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