protective custody order by someone other than DFS

[jessistl]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

I live in Missouri. In July my rights for my seven children were terminated. There was alot of wrong doing by the foster care case manager contracted by DFS. That decision is pending appeal. Monday I had a new baby. Wednesday we noticed it was taking a while for us to get our discharge papers. A social worker from the hospital came to my room and explained to me that there was a note in my file from my old foster care case manager, stating that a newborn crisis call should be made, and that she wanted them to call her before I was discharged from the hospital. They did make a call to DFS and I was quickly called back by the Childrens Division employee stating she was not taking any action at that time everything with my pregnancy, and baby was fine. She just wanted me to call her when I got home so they could check out the house. That is totally understandable. 5 minutes later the social worker came to my room with a court order stating that my baby was being taken into custody. A few minutes later my old foster care case manager came to take my baby from me. The request for removal was made by the old foster care case manager, who identified herself a current case manager contracted by DFS. She was escorted out with my baby by security. I called DFS, and talked to my real case worker and she informed me that they had not contracted the foster care case manager, and they did not request for my child to be removed. They told me since the judge signed the order there was nothing they could do at that moment, but things would be straitened out at court in two days. She then made an appointment to come view my house because she still had to finish her investigation so she could make a reccomendation when we went to court. We went to court and the judge even after DFS testified to everything I just named. She ordered my daughter be held in custody. She refused all objections by my lawyer. Im terrified. Can I press criminal charges. I just dont know what to do or think here. They said my child was removed because of the prior termination, even though there is a pending appeal. Someone please help me.

 

[Proserpina]

OP, it's Saturday evening and you have an attorney - I'm really not sure how a message board can help you before you speak with your attorney on Monday.

Nothing is going to happen before then, anyway.

I will say though, that having SEVEN children removed from your home and then having all of your rights severed, is generally going to be considered a red flag and I'm not surprised at what happened.

(Even if it turns out that DFS are completely in the wrong, I do understand their actions at least on the surface).

That's also NOT saying that I condone their actions - just that I understand them.

 

[sandyclaus]

What was the basis for having the other seven children removed from your custody and your parental rights terminated?

If those reasons still exist, then the Court was within its rights to remove your new child from your custody and place it in foster care. Doesn't matter if your case is under appeal (most people appeal their cases, for the simple reason that they do not understand or agree with the Court's decision). If they feel that you are a danger to your child, then they are going to do what is in the child's best interest FIRST AND FOREMOST.

 

[Proserpina]

What was the basis for having the other seven children removed from your custody and your parental rights terminated?

If those reasons still exist, then the Court was within its rights to remove your new child from your custody and place it in foster care. Doesn't matter if your case is under appeal (most people appeal their cases, for the simple reason that they do not understand or agree with the Court's decision). If they feel that you are a danger to your child, then they are going to do what is in the child's best interest FIRST AND FOREMOST.

And for the most part, they will err on the side of caution.

Even if it all turns out perfect in the end.

(This is child... #8? Kelly?)

 

[Ohiogal]

How was your file flagged? Unless they got a court order demanding they flag your file, there may be a HIPPA violation on the part of the hospital. Did they see anything that caused them to believe the newborn was abused/neglected? Did you make all your prenatal appointments? Did you ever test positive for drugs while pregnant? Did you argue with anyone while in the hospital? Did you and the baby's father get in a fight while in the hospital? Did you disclose to the doctor/hospital that you were a battered woman?

 

[mistoffolees]

How was your file flagged? Unless they got a court order demanding they flag your file, there may be a HIPPA violation on the part of the hospital. Did they see anything that caused them to believe the newborn was abused/neglected? Did you make all your prenatal appointments? Did you ever test positive for drugs while pregnant? Did you argue with anyone while in the hospital? Did you and the baby's father get in a fight while in the hospital? Did you disclose to the doctor/hospital that you were a battered woman?

Those are all great questions - and summarize why responding to posts like this one make me nervous. The state doesn't like to just swoop in and take kids away - it's very expensive for the state, if nothing else. There's always a back story which can affect the answer.

Oh, btw, as you know (but for OP's benefit in case she tries to search for it), it's HIPAA.

 

[Ohiogal]

Those are all great questions - and summarize why responding to posts like this one make me nervous. The state doesn't like to just swoop in and take kids away - it's very expensive for the state, if nothing else. There's always a back story which can affect the answer.

Oh, btw, as you know (but for OP's benefit in case she tries to search for it), it's HIPAA.

Yeah it's HIPAA. I have had a case extremely similar to this and won it at the appeals level. Actually this is a hybrid of two cases I had. One mom had seven kids (I represented the oldest four children) and her termination was overturned at the appellate level due to my and her attorney's briefs. The other case dealt with hospitals phoning in referrals based upon requests from DHS/CPS/CSB or whatever you want to call them. HIPAA may very well have been violated. Agencies quite frankly aren't allowed to manufacture their own referrals. They do it with astonishing frequency but legally, that is a violation of several civil rights.

As for cost -- nothing is worth more than a healthy newborn when it comes to adoption. Cynical idea, yes. But I have seen it happen. It almost happened to my client until the appeals court came back and said there was NO REASON that CSB could step in and remove her newborn from the hospital. Just having another child when she had rights terminated to a former child was not enough. Though the county STILL sends out letters to all hospitals in the county if they find out by any means (gossip, rumor, innuendo) that someone whose rights were terminated for ANY reason may be pregnant. The hospitals voluntarily inform CSB who takes it as a referral and then removes the newborn for any reason. A violation of HIPAA unless they have good reason -- and receiving a letter requesting a referral is NOT good reason. One day I will be suing them all for this.

 

[mistoffolees]

Yeah it's HIPAA. I have had a case extremely similar to this and won it at the appeals level. Actually this is a hybrid of two cases I had. One mom had seven kids (I represented the oldest four children) and her termination was overturned at the appellate level due to my and her attorney's briefs. The other case dealt with hospitals phoning in referrals based upon requests from DHS/CPS/CSB or whatever you want to call them. HIPAA may very well have been violated. Agencies quite frankly aren't allowed to manufacture their own referrals. They do it with astonishing frequency but legally, that is a violation of several civil rights.

As for cost -- nothing is worth more than a healthy newborn when it comes to adoption. Cynical idea, yes. But I have seen it happen. It almost happened to my client until the appeals court came back and said there was NO REASON that CSB could step in and remove her newborn from the hospital. Just having another child when she had rights terminated to a former child was not enough. Though the county STILL sends out letters to all hospitals in the county if they find out by any means (gossip, rumor, innuendo) that someone whose rights were terminated for ANY reason may be pregnant. The hospitals voluntarily inform CSB who takes it as a referral and then removes the newborn for any reason. A violation of HIPAA unless they have good reason -- and receiving a letter requesting a referral is NOT good reason. One day I will be suing them all for this.

The really unfortunate thing about the entire scenario is that due to parental rights, it is essentially impossible to do things to PREVENT tragedies. Instead, the state can't do anything until AFTER tragedy occurs.

Someone with 7 kids already removed should NOT be having more kids.

 

[jessistl]

DFS didnt take them

Ok as for all of the questions. Originally my other seven children were taken because I admitted to DFS that I had used drugs. I havent had a positive drug screen since July 2, 2010. DFS did not remove my new daughter. They did not request a removal of my child at all. The foster care case manager in the case of my other children actually wrote a letter to the hospital and requested upon delivery that a newborn crisis call be made, and for them to contact her. I understand the crisis call. For privacy sake I will just call the DFS casework assigned to my case Jane. I was contacted by Jane, and she said we have no reason to believe your daughter needs to be removed. I passed a urine drug screen and also a machonium drug screen which goes back months. She said when you are discharged from the hospital call me so I can check out your house and conduct an interview, so I can close your case. She also told me we have talked to the foster care case manager and let her know we are not persuing this. Just a few minutes later a social worker at the hospital brought me a court order that stated she was being taken into custody. The old foster care case manager that is only hired by dfs if a child is in need of foster placement took it upon herself to request the removal of my daughter. In the request misrepresents herself as being contracted with DFS. I have a sworn statement by DFS stating the did not request my daughter be removed she was not in imminant danger, and that upon the time that the old foster care case manager lied in stating that she had been hired by DFS ,for this matter. I had a hearing on friday and DFS testified to all of these facts including the the day after my release from the hospital DFS ( Jane still had to close my case. She checked my house which she deemed appropriate and checked to make sure I had all of the things required to having a baby there, and I passed it all. The judge refused to allow objections, and reguardless of the evidence in my favor and the fact that DFS also testified that there is no abuse or neglect even suspected, the judge ordered her remain in custody. I have filed for a new judge. My lawyer currently, was appointed to me for purposes of appeal and has no experience in family court. Oh and living with me is my mother whom is a licensed foster parent.

 

[jessistl]

What was the basis for having the other seven children removed from your custody and your parental rights terminated?

If those reasons still exist, then the Court was within its rights to remove your new child from your custody and place it in foster care. Doesn't matter if your case is under appeal (most people appeal their cases, for the simple reason that they do not understand or agree with the Court's decision). If they feel that you are a danger to your child, then they are going to do what is in the child's best interest FIRST AND FOREMOST.

Ok as for all of the questions. Originally my other seven children were taken because I admitted to DFS that I had used drugs. I havent had a positive drug screen since July 2, 2010. DFS did not remove my new daughter. They did not request a removal of my child at all. The foster care case manager in the case of my other children actually wrote a letter to the hospital and requested upon delivery that a newborn crisis call be made, and for them to contact her. I understand the crisis call. For privacy sake I will just call the DFS casework assigned to my case Jane. I was contacted by Jane, and she said we have no reason to believe your daughter needs to be removed. I passed a urine drug screen and also a machonium drug screen which goes back months. She said when you are discharged from the hospital call me so I can check out your house and conduct an interview, so I can close your case. She also told me we have talked to the foster care case manager and let her know we are not persuing this. Just a few minutes later a social worker at the hospital brought me a court order that stated she was being taken into custody. The old foster care case manager that is only hired by dfs if a child is in need of foster placement took it upon herself to request the removal of my daughter. In the request misrepresents herself as being contracted with DFS. I have a sworn statement by DFS stating the did not request my daughter be removed she was not in imminant danger, and that upon the time that the old foster care case manager lied in stating that she had been hired by DFS ,for this matter. I had a hearing on friday and DFS testified to all of these facts including the the day after my release from the hospital DFS ( Jane still had to close my case. She checked my house which she deemed appropriate and checked to make sure I had all of the things required to having a baby there, and I passed it all. The judge refused to allow objections, and reguardless of the evidence in my favor and the fact that DFS also testified that there is no abuse or neglect even suspected, the judge ordered her remain in custody. I have filed for a new judge. My lawyer currently, was appointed to me for purposes of appeal and has no experience in family court.