Question about Office of Children and Youth

[ren225]

I'm not sure that I am posting in the correct area,but the situation is my brother and his wife were accused of child abuse by there 16 year old daughter who had recently been in a lot of trouble I.E. probation, youth homes for troubled kids and "boot camp" for troubled kids. When she returned home they still had problems with her, as in breaking curfew, and generally still being defiant to them. Acouple of months later she went to the police and accused my brother and his wife of child abuse I.E. physically correcting her, and at one point physically holding her back as she was trying to strike out at her mother.Thier daughter then walked to the police station and reported it. The police called the Office of Children and Youth (OCY). They the OCY then came to the house and did a follow up investigation into the alleged child abuse ,they then ordered my brother to take the child to our sisters house for the time being or they would remove all the children from their custody. The OCY actually had taken my brother and his wife to juvinille court and had it arranged so the child would be in custodial care of her aunt (my sister)untill the next review by them, the OCY. That same afternoon my brother recieved a notice in the mail from the OCY that said the alleged child abuse was unfounded. My questions are, 1. How could the OCY remove the child from the house if they had found the allegations to be unfounded. 2. How and why would they take my brother and his wife to family court and sugest that the child stay with her aunt, knowing that they had already sent notice to my brother that the allegations were unfounded but waited till after the court hearing to notify him of this. Even at the second hearing they had, the court would not let my brother enter the paper work that stated that the OCY had considered it an unfounded case of child abuse. To this day they will still not give custody of the child back to my brother. I would also like to explain that in this city the OCY is under investigation for 3 defined cases that they were incompentaly handling, one of wich caused the death of a child. If some one could give me information on this it we be greatly appreciated.

 

[LdiJ]

I'm not sure that I am posting in the correct area,but the situation is my brother and his wife were accused of child abuse by there 16 year old daughter who had recently been in a lot of trouble I.E. probation, youth homes for troubled kids and "boot camp" for troubled kids. When she returned home they still had problems with her, as in breaking curfew, and generally still being defiant to them. Acouple of months later she went to the police and accused my brother and his wife of child abuse I.E. physically correcting her, and at one point physically holding her back as she was trying to strike out at her mother.Thier daughter then walked to the police station and reported it. The police called the Office of Children and Youth (OCY). They the OCY then came to the house and did a follow up investigation into the alleged child abuse ,they then ordered my brother to take the child to our sisters house for the time being or they would remove all the children from their custody. The OCY actually had taken my brother and his wife to juvinille court and had it arranged so the child would be in custodial care of her aunt (my sister)untill the next review by them, the OCY. That same afternoon my brother recieved a notice in the mail from the OCY that said the alleged child abuse was unfounded. My questions are, 1. How could the OCY remove the child from the house if they had found the allegations to be unfounded. 2. How and why would they take my brother and his wife to family court and sugest that the child stay with her aunt, knowing that they had already sent notice to my brother that the allegations were unfounded but waited till after the court hearing to notify him of this. Even at the second hearing they had, the court would not let my brother enter the paper work that stated that the OCY had considered it an unfounded case of child abuse. To this day they will still not give custody of the child back to my brother. I would also like to explain that in this city the OCY is under investigation for 3 defined cases that they were incompentaly handling, one of wich caused the death of a child. If some one could give me information on this it we be greatly appreciated.

I really think that your brother and his wife need to get an attorney to help them with this. However, is their daughter doing any better with her aunt?

 

[SMURFEELAW]

How much is the fight worth it. It sounds to me like there are other children in the house, the dughter seems to be needing a lot of attention and the other children may suffer for it. Depending on how old the child is now still 16? The fight maybe longer than the Courts would even retain jurisdiction. I'm not saying they shouldn't continue to love her and try to build a relationship but if it has even the slightest chance of hurting the other children or getting them removed then maybe it would be better to leave her where she is.

 

[ren225]

Thanks for the replies. I do realize that the "system" could have them wrapped up in thier beurocracy at the rate things are going for them until the child is 18 and then they can just be done with her. 16 know, 17 very shortly.The problem though is they have a child who is very delinquent and my sister is also having problems with her. Me being in the middle of my brother and sister they both use me as a sounding board about it, and they no longer are on speaking terms with each other. The problem is my brother and his wife were wise to the kids lies, problems, deceitfullness and realized that they do/did have only a short time to "mold" thier daughter into being a good /respectable person. They do have 1 son that is an a.p. student and carries straight A's, they do have another son who is a "special needs child" this child was in the classroom of another "special needs child" whom the OCY neglected reports of child abuse -even the ones the school itself made and did not investigate upon it, know recently the child was found dead and a couple of arrests have been made but is still under investigation. The OCY is well aware of the fact that that child of my brothers were friends with this student. This child of my brothers is also scared as he knows that the OCY took the other child out of her home and know she is dead,He being Mentally retarded only understands that this other girl died when she was taken and now the OCY has taken his sister. How can the OCY have the power to remove a child from the parents custody even when they said it was an unfounded case of child abuse. My brother was told to go to the public defenders office to obtain an attoney as they cannot afford a private sector attoney. They were told by the public defenders office that the income guidline for a family of 4 was a maximum of $135 wkly and therefor cannot be appointed an attoney. My brother had also told the OCY that he was going to contact the newspaper about this ,and a few days later was served papers from the family court judge that said any of the matters pertaining to this hearing will be a "closed door session" and he would be found in defience of a court order if the newspaper came with him. Sorry to make such a lengthy post, but I do care greatly as to what happens to my niece and am still baffled as to how OCY could take a child away from their parents when the OCY even stated it was unfounded. To top it all off they are also making my brother and his wife pay child support to my sister. They just want thier daughter back before it is to late to instill a good set of morales into this child as even I don't feel my sister is capable of helping my niece. Any further guidance in any form would be tremendously helpful.

 

[BL]

They just want their daughter back before it is to late to instill a good set of morales into this child as even I don't feel my sister is capable of helping my niece. Any further guidance in any form would be tremendously helpful [quote ]

You have posted some history on the 16 , soon to be 17 year old. You stated when this daughter came back home she was DEFIANT . You may " want to "
mold her and instill a good set of morales, but what you want and what is reality is two different things.

Step back and think about this ? " what If " What if your brother was successfully in winning the right to bring the daughter back home ?
More defiance ? more not fallowing the rules of the house? more restraining - more false accusations ?

I know what it's like helping to raise a child with defiant oppositional disorder ,also diagnosed as ADAH. We've been through it , to the point of false allegation because we didn't want to bring the child back home from the hosp., and the child wanting me arrested and put in jail for restraining him when he was busting windows.
He is 17 now , and still has a " Attitude " and defiance toward us. He pretty much knows his boundaries at home,and knows if he gets in trouble outside the home the results will fall on him squarely.

At least your brother's daughter has a roof over her head,and hopefully is staying out of trouble .

If this is just about support and he were to be given custody back , you'd be right back in some sort of mess in short time .

Also, you do not have to allow yourself to be in the middle . That is what you have chosen to do.

 

[ren225]

to Blonde Lebinese

You are probably correct, they would still have a "defiant" child in the house if she came back home, as she is starting to show her true self again after living with my sister for the past several months. It probably would be better for my brother and his wife not to have her come back into the home as who knows what kind of allegations she could then make. I am in the middle of this because I care about what happens to my family members, all of them. I am still at a loss as to how this was an unfounded case as the OCY stated and they were still able to take this kid away from there family. The OCY is putting some very harsh and unrealistic demands on my brother and his wife even so far as to make them miss a couple of days of work a week to have meetings and counseling etc. All on a unfounded Case of child abuse. I do still agree with you that it is probably not in there best interest to have thier child return home. I am still at a loss though as how was she even legally removed from their home in the first place.

 

[Soontobedivorce]

I used to have two defiant teenagers

so I know how it is horrible to try to raise them...Umm...I agree that it is best for daughter to stay away from her parents if she keeps giving false allegiations your brother does not need that at all right now.

I disagree that court would make them miss a couple of days to go to counseling that is very wrong....should be in evenings or something because counseling is very good. I like parenting and counseling classes but always work them around.They help us understand how to control out of control kids.

For example, if a kid pushes through the window, being so defiant and very stubborn....then parents need to call police and make the report, forcing the kid to face consquences that is why I never go tin trouble with police because parenting classes helped me understand how to control two oldest kids.
Kids can be liars, maniplative, everyuthing as long as theythink they can get adults in their control. That is very sad...

It is not really worth it to try to fight to get daughter back because she will beback to same old problems if she NEVER was ordered to go to counseling, or whatever. Is she on drugs??? That could be the reason why she is behaving like that. I read alot of troubled teens stories and most of them were on drugs.Have her tested.....NOT by urinate because it is not accurate, hair test is very expensive...but worth 100 percentage result. if she is on drugs, demand that she gets into Rehab or something. Good luck!!!
Encourage your brother to speak with sister and try to put alot of love and positive enforcement in daughter/niece altho I believe sister probably is giving her alot of freedom and it is very wrong...how does she do in school? How is she doing now? If she improves alot better better leave where she is. If she is horrible, have her drug tested...that can be one reason why she is out of control and put her in Rehab.

 

[BL]

For example, if a kid pushes through the window, being so defiant and very stubborn....then parents need to call police and make the report, forcing the kid to face consquences [ quote ]

you think so ? When we called them one police officer was Pi**** off.
He said this is a family matter and you shouldn't have called us. On the other hand a Female police officer said he needed a foot you know where ( when he told them he wanted me arrested ).

We had to take him for an eval. and guess what ? as manipulative as he is, The eval. said it was all his mothers fault,just as the hosp. called false CPS allegations on us .( No judge would have found us unfit for not bringing him home for the 3rd time,and his history - fire setting,threats of bodily harm,Etc ). And guess what , all the promises were just manipulations.

Needless to say he is 17 now and if he acts up he knows he goes out the door until he can respect us adults and the home .

 

[ren225]

The daughter is an honor role student, starting back when my brother had her last year. After she had spent some time in a juvinile correction facility along with juvinile "boot camp". She is a very intelligent, smart mouthed, little brat, but manages to stay on the honor role even under my sisters care. As time goes on my sister is know starting to have the same problems with kid, dissapearing, mouthy, defient,and such.

My brother has tried numerous ways of correcting her I.E. grounding, taking away possesions and such. Nothing seems to have worked. She feels at 16 she should be able to come and go as she pleases any hour day or night. Drink and hang out with a boy very much her senior(20ish).

As far as my brother calling the police, it has happened so many times that he knows several of them on a first name basis. One time in particular the daughter wrote in black permanent marker on her bedroom walls that "she f-ing hates her parents, she's going to burn the house down, and a few more verses all over her entire bedroom. My brother did call the police and she did recieve a ticket for destruction of property, here's the fun part, she is a minor so my brother was responsible for paying the fine. That really taught her a lesson.

The OCY has giving my sister permission for this girl to be aloud to go out with this 20ish yr old kid, the same kid my brother was trying to keep her away from. My sister has also aloud her to have her nose pierced, something that would never have been allowed under my brothers care.

I would still like to see if anybody has an answer as to how an unfounded case of child abuse could result in a child being removed from the home. If the OCY has the power to do it to them they could also do it to any one of us, at any time. Seems a little scary when it's put in that form, hugh?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

She is better off with her aunt that way there won't be any more false abuse charges agiant your brother, at least it is still in the family. She will regret much of what she doesn in the future but is how children learn, at least your brother is not responsible for what she does at this point. Instead of fines, community service allows a child to pay the fine which might make some impact. Tell your brother she will be an adult soon enough and to concentrate on the others, there is no way to change her at this point, it wasn't working before.

 

[ren225]

rmet

I realize you are probably correct. It is just very frustrating to me, as you have read in other posts where you offered advice to me, it's just very frustrating that gov't agencies have the power to ruin peoples lives and instead of actually doing there job correctly there just doing wether it's the right thing or not.


I once heard a conversation were an elderly gentleman had borrowed his nephews car and during the time he had it the clutch broke. An argument between them ensued, at one point the elderly man said "I have been driving cars for 40 years" and the nephew replied "that doesn't mean you have been doing it rite"


To me it seems like most of our Gov't is being run this way, they may have been doing there jobs for a long time, but it doesn't mean they have been doing it rite.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Look at it this way, if she was at home they would be having to deal with her false accusaitons all the time, a waste of taxpayers money and producing no good end, it is for everyones best interest she not be at home and they can make that decision.

 

[BL]

Just to respond how OCY or CPS can remove children , then when the allegations are unfounded still have control .

These agencies are often granted that power by a judge to take them out of the home on an emergency basis . Judges most always fallow CPS recommendations.
Once they have and make recommendations , the parents have to fallow these recommendations in hopes of the child being allowed to return to the home.
Even though the allegations were unfounded, Judges will still go along with there recommendations. Even if he had a Lawyer , most Lawyers are local,and don't want to get on the bad side of the Judges,so they will also recommend going with the program. I've seen a case where it took 6 months for the children returned to the home once the mother quit having contact with the offender ( their father ) that was founded , and only fallowing the program. The offender is now in prison for the act and the mother is still in the programs under the agency's watch.

In your brother's case because of the daughters age , and what could take place if she returned home , I agree.Your brother is better off .

It was 2-3 yrs ago that my girlfriends' son wanted me arrested for restraining him. I haven't touched him since. I have told him to leave and come back when he is able to be respectfull.

 

[ffwife026]

I was just sitting here reading this forum and a similar thing happend to my husband about a year ago.
He has 2 daughters that live in Fla. One lives with his ex wife the other with a ex girlfriend. The ex wife was a convicted felon, had several DUI's,Hit a school bus and left the seen,(children on bus)and was busted with a meth lab,drugs,and so on. She had been in jail a month before anyone contacted my husband. We done everything the courts asked.We travled 1800 miles to court spent thousands of dollars on attorneys,just so that the judge would let her stay in Fla.
The dept of chidrens services visited our home done drug test on us talked to our children and found that our home would be in the best intrest of the child.The dept of childrens services was on our side but for some reason us not knowing why the judge didn't want to remove her from Fla. because that was where she went to school. I don't understand Laws when it comes to childern looks to me like it would be what is in the best intrest.
Today was the first time in a year that we have talked to the child.We would call her because that is what we were told to do,but she was in her grandparents home and her mother was court ordered to live there with the child while she was doing her year probation.When we would call they would tell us she wasn't home or she didn't want to talk to us.I guess I will never understand.
If anyone could explain this please feel free because I can't.