racing against the clock

[Paulietsbj]

I live in Washington and I am going to court with my sister on Jan 12. She lives in Utah so I am doing all the foot work. Her x is taking her to court because he is angry that his 18 year old son chose to move back with his mom a couple of months ago because of the abuse from his father and step mom. He has filed a restraining order against my sister. She is not allowed to come within 700 yards of her two youngest boys 11 and 13. He is claiming that there oldest son sexually molested his brothers while in her care and he is trying to take away her custody rights. It gets worse. He did molest his brothers and he has recently admitted it to his mother. The horrible thing about it is, it was while he was in his fathers care who found out it was going on when he turned fourteen. Him and his wife decided to keep it from my sister for two years. She has only known for a few months and he is very sorry and hasn't done anything to his brothers since he was 16. The father and step mother are the ones who allowed it to go on for 2 years without getting him help. They are using this as leverage to take custody away from my sister. They have no proof and I had already planned to file contempt of court charges this coming Tuesday because he didn't put her two boys on the plane for their Christmas visit with their mom. My sister filed a police report in Utah and Washington and I have documentation to prove he is in contempt. The thing I am so frightened about is the fact that he will probably use his two youngest sons to testify. They have told their mom and my daughter that they love there brother because he protects them from their dad. They have also admitted to lying to their father and step mother because they are afraid to tell the truth. How can she protect herself in court from these false charges? I have done a lot of research and I feel prepared to face him in court along side my sister, but I want to cover all bases. The other question I have is can I speak on my sister's behave in court. She has been tormented by her x and his wife for 7 years. She is a mess and I would like to represent her if I can? There is so much more to this horrible story, but it would take to long to write it all. Please help if you can, I want to stop the torture my sister and my family have had to deal with these past 7 years.

[ceara19]

If the older child molested the younger children, as he has ADMITTED, the first and foremost concern of the court will be protecting the younger children. WHERE the abuse took place will be as important as where the children are presently. As long as the oldest child is living in mom's house, it is very likely that the younger children will NOT be placed in the same home as the person that molested them. Honestly, your sister needs to deal with the CRIMINAL matters before worrying about the civil issues.

[Paulietsbj]

Can she take him to court for criminal charges for allowing the abuse to go on in his home and only bringing it up when it was to his benefit?

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by Paulietsbj

Can she take him to court for criminal charges for allowing the abuse to go on in his home and only bringing it up when it was to his benefit?

She cannot take him to court for criminal charges -- only the state with jurisdiction (where dad lived and the crimes took place) can do that. Here is the other issue -- unless you are an attorney YOU cannot file ANYTHING for her. You would be in trouble for practicing law without a license. You can do footwork but you cannot write or file complaints for her.

[ceara19]

Originally Posted by Paulietsbj

Can she take him to court for criminal charges for allowing the abuse to go on in his home and only bringing it up when it was to his benefit?

Individuals can't bring criminal charges to court. The prosecutor in the jurisdiction that the crime took place in is the only one that can do that. She can file a criminal complaint. However she would FIRST have to file a complaint against her oldest son. Until it is legally proven that there was a crime committed, that dad knew about the crime AND that the criminal acts continued AFTER dad became aware of the proven crimes, dad has not committed a crime. No matter what the outcome of the criminal matter is, no Judge is going to allow the minor children to be placed in the same house as the oldest child.

[Paulietsbj]

The police officer I talked to said I can take care of the filing because she is not in Washington. I know I can't sign for her, but can I fax her the court papers for her to sign, or can she file while still in Utah? I understand the need to deal with the criminal matters first, but he has left her no choice. She has to defend herself against his false allegations in two weeks, and contempt of court is something that needs to be addressed on that day. Also is an attorney a good idea for her situation? My entire family is very hesitant because her last attorney really burned her. And she doesn't even know how she can possibly afford one.

[Paulietsbj]

One thing I would like to clear up. My nephew did not rape his brothers. He did the sexual experimenting that a lot of boys do. Don't get me wrong what my nephew did was wrong, but it didn't go as far as rape. Since it has been over two years and he didn't go any further than touching, will the judge still not allow the boys to be with their mother if the older brother lives there, and can she move him in with a family member during her visitation with her boys?

[ceara19]

Originally Posted by Paulietsbj

One thing I would like to clear up. My nephew did not rape his brothers. He did the sexual experimenting that a lot of boys do. Don't get me wrong what my nephew did was wrong, but it didn't go as far as rape. Since it has been over two years and he didn't go any further than touching, will the judge still not allow the boys to be with their mother if the older brother lives there, and can she move him in with a family member during her visitation with her boys?

Let me clear one thing up for you. That is NOT the way a court will see it. To say that a lot of boys experiment sexually with their own family members is absolutely absurd.

If the older child is living with mom and the court believes that the older child touched the younger children in a sexual manner at anytime, she should expect any visitation with the younger children to be supervised. the fact that he was "experimenting" on children younger then himself makes him a predator. Has the abuse been reported to the police by anyone yet? If so, by whom? If not, why?

[Paulietsbj]

I think I'm being misunderstood here. I am not condoning whatsoever, or even defending my nephew. So forgive me for asking if the judge might look at the whole big picture here. I was raised in a wonderful home by two very outstanding parents, and for the past 23 years have loved my husband and raised 4 very amazing children. Despite all that, I have heard many stories of this type of abuse. It doesn't make it ok, but it is a fact, and I live a very quiet life, I shutter to think how very common it is. So it is not absurd, it is the sad truth that needs to be taken more seriously than it does. The pain and heartache I am feeling here is the fact that my sister just recently learned of this and it is being dumped all on her, taking the blame away from the real monster here. On the other hand the real predetar here is the father who has exposed his son to porn and made sickening perversive remarks to him since he was very young, and only God knows what else. He was extremely sexually sick with my sister during their 12 year marriage. Unfortunately my sister CAN'T prove it! His father became very angry when he moved in with his mother and only then did he report it. Not to help his son, but to hurt my sister. My sister is taking her son to counseling for this, because she does CARE. Again I say,yes he was wrong, but his father is using him for the wrong reasons I'm just trying to get answers so my other two precious nephews don't have to continue go through the abuse. I understand that the courts will do what they think they feel is necessary to protect the boys, but leaving them in her x's care is far worse than anything that would ever happen in my sister's care. And just so you don't think I am just angry, I have proof that the abuse took place while in the fathers care, because the time frame for which the boys were supposedly being abused while in her care, was the same time the father wouldn't allow their oldest son to visit his mother. I have records of his work history to prove he was in Washington State during this time. Since my nephew has moved in with his mom, which has only been 3 months, he has worked a steady job, opened up his own bank account and is willing to admit to his wrong doing and seek help to make sure, although it hasn't happened for over 2 years, that it will never happen again. So although he is in fact a predetor, he was young enough to get help, but that help only came after he moved in with his mom, and would have never been reported had he chose to stay with his father. And as much as I completely agree that the younger boys need protection, the horrible abuse that takes place in the home of the father is far sicker than what took place when my nephew was 15. And please don't misunderstand, I am not saying they would be better off being molested by their brother than their father, I am saying my sister would make sure it never happened again, whereas if they continue in their fathers care it will continue to happen only it will be far worse. And yes it has been reported to CPS several times, but he is slick and they can never get enough on him. I'm sorry for going off like this, but the real problem hear is going unaddressed. I know life is unfair, and I know many others are going through the same pain, and they feel so helpless, but I came to this forum because I thought for once I could get some good advice and a little understanding. I'm not stupid I know life kicks hard, but it would be nice to find a place that doesn't kick as hard as the rest of the world. So can anyone tell me, is there a way to fight back?

[ceara19]

Your sister is in the unfortunate situation of having to choose between her oldest child and her younger ones. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is. The family court is ONLY concerned with the minors subject to the court orders at this time. Proving that the molestation occurred while the children were in the father's care could go a long way for her. However, the court will not even CONSIDER changing custody if that would mean the children would be exposed to the abuser. Is dad getting help for the youngest boys?

[Paulietsbj]

No he's not getting help for them, he can't risk the counselor exposing his own sick behavior toward the boys. That's what's tearing me up, we can't seem to get anyone to see what's going on in his home. We learned something very disturbing a few months back that happened to my nephew at the hand of his father when he was very young. A lot has come out now that he is away from his father. It makes me cringe, and brings tears to my eyes every time I think of it. It is very hard to comprehend and probably has never been heard of, and something I will not mention on an open forum. Believe me he is a very very sick man. No matter how wrong my nephew was for his behavior, he is also very much a victim. Thanks for your advice. All I can do now is pray that justice will be served.

[ceara19]

Originally Posted by Paulietsbj

No he's not getting help for them, he can't risk the counselor exposing his own sick behavior toward the boys. That's what's tearing me up, we can't seem to get anyone to see what's going on in his home. We learned something very disturbing a few months back that happened to my nephew at the hand of his father when he was very young. A lot has come out now that he is away from his father. It makes me cringe, and brings tears to my eyes every time I think of it. It is very hard to comprehend and probably has never been heard of, and something I will not mention on an open forum. Believe me he is a very very sick man. No matter how wrong my nephew was for his behavior, he is also very much a victim. Thanks for your advice. All I can do now is pray that justice will be served.

The judge will most likely ORDER dad to get counseling for the kids. What did he do to your nephew? Your sister may have a good chance at changing custody depending on what occurred.

[Paulietsbj]

I can't say what he did unless it's through a private message. I can't risk him finding out what we know before we take it to court.

[ceara19]

Originally Posted by Paulietsbj

I can't say what he did unless it's through a private message. I can't risk him finding out what we know before we take it to court.

That's fine. You can PM the info. The reason I'm asking is because depending on what it is, legal recourse may still be possible.