Railroaded!

[quorumangelorum]

What is the name of your state?California
Hello, I will try to be concise with my description-- About 1&1/2 yrs ago, my parents took me to court over custody of my only son, who was then 11. They first obtained an ex parte order for temp. emer. custody. They made no attempt to notify me until after this was done. The transcript of that hearing are not in the file, only the order. My parents were represented in court by THREE attorneys free of charge, all paid for by a program jointly administered by the State Bar and their local Legal Aid society. I could find no one to represent me, and was forced to proceed in pro per. There was no police or CPS involvement, and no allegations of abuse or neglect. I was not found unfit, and the only reason they wound up with physical custody (we have joint legal custody, which they ignore) was that I did not clearly understand at the time that they had no real grounds to force me to give him up. I was very frightened and intimidated. My questions:
1.) I cannot ascertain if the situation (they were asking to terminate my parental rights!) was one in which I was entitled to a public defender. This case was in San Mateo County, incidentally, which does not seem to have a PD's office per se. My understanding is that TPR cases are considered "quasi-criminal" and as such do entitle one to a PD. Is this so? If so, was someone supposed to inform me of this?
2.) Is it too late to appeal this decision, on the grounds that I did not have an attorney and was not fully capable of defending myself?
3.) Legal Aid is funded in part with Federal money. The agency which paid for my parents' attorneys flatly refused to represent me, or direct me elsewhere. The program is funded through legislative directives intended to increase access to legal assistance to those who could not otherwise afford it. (my parents are far more affluent than I, despite their claim of being retirees on a "fixed income") This seems to me as if it must somehow be discriminatory.
If you wish more details, there is an article here:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/40597/your_tax_dollars_subsidizing_legal.html

My son, when he lived with me, always got good grades, was on the honor roll, and had been recommended to the gifted students program. After being taken by my parents, his grades began to slide, and this last semester he got all D's & F's. He was suspended twice for fighting, and then was kicked out of summer school on the 1st day. My parents have had him in "therapy" the whole time. Now they want to have him tested for a "learning disability"! (Their idea, not the therapist's. They only said this after I pointed out that some of the behavior they don't like is actually kind of normal for gifted students. It really seems retaliatory to me -- not only is it childish, but it could profoundly affect my son psychologically!)

I am at this point very frightened for my son's well-being. We go back to court Monday for a 6-month review. Can you help?

Thank You.

 

[CandiceH]

I hope that you meant 18 1/2 months ago. No legal advice here but you definitely need an attorney ASAP.

 

[quorumangelorum]

Yes, 18 months.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Yes, I think I do need an attorney -- but how? I have tried every pro bono resource I can find.

I know family law is a thankless, acrimonious and often sad legal speciality, and it probably doesn't pay too well comparatively. Why would anyone want to do it for free? Yet that seems to be my only hope.

 

[tigger22472]

What is the name of your state?California
Hello, I will try to be concise with my description-- About 1&1/2 yrs ago, my parents took me to court over custody of my only son, who was then 11. They first obtained an ex parte order for temp. emer. custody. They made no attempt to notify me until after this was done. The transcript of that hearing are not in the file, only the order. My parents were represented in court by THREE attorneys free of charge, all paid for by a program jointly administered by the State Bar and their local Legal Aid society. I could find no one to represent me, and was forced to proceed in pro per.

I'm lost here or confused, not sure which, how did you not know anything about it but yet were available for court to represent yourself?

There was no police or CPS involvement, and no allegations of abuse or neglect. I was not found unfit, and the only reason they wound up with physical custody (we have joint legal custody, which they ignore) was that I did not clearly understand at the time that they had no real grounds to force me to give him up. I was very frightened and intimidated.


First, ignorance of the law isn't a defense. However, you are leaving out a lot of information here that I suspect is very relevent. People do not just walk into court and get custody of a child without SOME grounds, especially when they are not a parent. Had the child been in their care for quite some time? How old is/was the child at the time?

My questions:
1.) I cannot ascertain if the situation (they were asking to terminate my parental rights!) was one in which I was entitled to a public defender. This case was in San Mateo County, incidentally, which does not seem to have a PD's office per se. My understanding is that TPR cases are considered "quasi-criminal" and as such do entitle one to a PD. Is this so? If so, was someone supposed to inform me of this?

Have you been to court over the TPR issue yet? You say you have joint legal custody so your rights have not been terminated. If you have not been to court over the TPR then you need to get a consult with an attorney and see what your rights are. If, in fact, this qualifies for a PD then you will be offered one at court.


2.) Is it too late to appeal this decision, on the grounds that I did not have an attorney and was not fully capable of defending myself?

Appeal which decision? The custody? Um.. yeah probably... At this point the child has seriously established residency at the home and it is even now, more than ever a concept of the best interest of the child and to get an order to disrupt the child's life at this point would take some serious changes of circumstances and likely YOU proving them to be unfit. If you are trying to appeal a TPR... there's not been one according to the information you have given.


3.) Legal Aid is funded in part with Federal money. The agency which paid for my parents' attorneys flatly refused to represent me, or direct me elsewhere.


And they are not required to. Legal Aid CANNOT represent two parties from the same case. It's unethical and a conflict of interests. If they HAD represented you and you would have loss you would be here saying they didn't represent you correctly cuz they represented your parents. They also have no obligation to direct you anywhere else.

The program is funded through legislative directives intended to increase access to legal assistance to those who could not otherwise afford it. (my parents are far more affluent than I, despite their claim of being retirees on a "fixed income") This seems to me as if it must somehow be discriminatory.

See answer above.

If you wish more details, there is an article here:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/40597/your_tax_dollars_subsidizing_legal.html

You realize this link is an opinion, correct. The language within is questionable and likely not one you would want to use as a reference.

My son, when he lived with me, always got good grades, was on the honor roll, and had been recommended to the gifted students program. After being taken by my parents, his grades began to slide, and this last semester he got all D's & F's. He was suspended twice for fighting, and then was kicked out of summer school on the 1st day. My parents have had him in "therapy" the whole time. Now they want to have him tested for a "learning disability"! (Their idea, not the therapist's. They only said this after I pointed out that some of the behavior they don't like is actually kind of normal for gifted students. It really seems retaliatory to me -- not only is it childish, but it could profoundly affect my son psychologically!)

I'm sure your son is affected by this. Having him 'tested' isn't against the law. You would have to PROVE all of the above and PROVE that it is THEIR influence that's caused this.


I am at this point very frightened for my son's well-being. We go back to court Monday for a 6-month review. Can you help?

Thank You.

What do you mean you go back for a 6 month review? You said it's been a year and a half.

 

[stealth2]

I hope that you meant 18 1/2 months ago. No legal advice here but you definitely need an attorney ASAP.

What you read as an "8" was actually an "&" (an ampersand - standing for AND)

 

[nextwife]

What you read as an "8" was actually an "&" (an ampersand - standing for AND)

Righto!

Anyway, I agree that parts of the story MUST be missing.

 

[stealth2]

We go back to court Monday for a 6-month review. Can you help?

Thank You.

I have to wonder why you waited until the Friday before to start asking for help.

 

[quorumangelorum]

Aaaah, sarcasm...the failsafe yardstick of emotional maturity.

Okay -- I didn't know about the EX PARTE hearing -- they are supposed to notify you when one is being held in your honor. The guardianship hearing was filed for on the same day, after they were sure he was out of my evil clutches.

Ignorance of the law is not a defense. However, you don't need a defense for a probate matter, or for an appeal, because it is not a criminal proceeding. What you do need is competent representation, or grounds for overturning a decision, respectively.

I was indeed leaving out some information. As I said, I was trying to be brief. That's why I referenced the web page with the details. And a sad fact of our modern society is that people CAN walk into court and steal a child without real grounds. All you have to do is create a paper trail based on the Original Lie, and magically, it assumes the status of fact. My parents went to every agency they could find, and said I was a drug addict. My problem with that: it isn't true. They said my friends said I used drugs, and they listed some friends I had had a falling-out with, thinking I wouldn't be able to refute it. I brought in sworn statements from those friends, saying they had said nothing of the kind. They said things like, "my handwriting was erratic". They produced a poem I had written and claimed it was a suicide note. (I said, anyone who leaves a suicide note in the form of poetry probably deserves to die.)

I mentioned the TPR aspect because I thought it may have a bearing on my right to a PD. They went for TPR as part of the guardianship proceedings, probably because there was just no case at all unless they did so. My rights were NOT terminated. I was NOT found unfit. Yes, I do need a consult with an attorney -- that's what I thought I was doing here.

The Judge awarded them guardianship, and set further followup hearings at 6 month intervals, towards what end specifically I'm not clear on...but I'm glad the case isn't just closed.

At this point, my parents still insist at every opportunity to try and defame my character and characterize me as "emotionally unstable". They have filed one hundred and nine pages of "evidence" for this next hearing -- things like the report cards, paperwork from discipline at school, an email I sent the therapist with an article attached that I had found about common behavior in gifted children being misdiagnosed as pathology (i.e., ADHD, OCD, etc.) --- and all this is somehow supposed to make ME look bad.

What's going on is that my mother is on an extended, particularly cruel power-trip, and she's loving every minute of it.

***********************************************

[P.S. Thanks, Stealth.]

 

[quorumangelorum]

Oh, Jeez, you guys! I did not wait until the Friday before to start asking for help! I have been asking for help all along, everywhere I could think of! (and helping myself, as best I can.)

I posted here because I had SPECIFIC questions for which only an attorney could provide a reliable answer, and the button said, "post your case to an attorney" !

So if none of you attorneys actually knows if a natural single mother facing possible TPR in a guardianship proceeding as respects her minor son was legally entitled to a public defender in the State of California -----

Then I'll thank you for your time and kind attention, and keep looking.

 

[ceara19]

Aaaah, sarcasm...the failsafe yardstick of emotional maturity.

Okay -- I didn't know about the EX PARTE hearing -- they are supposed to notify you when one is being held in your honor. The guardianship hearing was filed for on the same day, after they were sure he was out of my evil clutches.

An EX PARTE hearing is just that. It means "for ONE party" and it is perfectly legal in certain circumstances, including temporary custody hearings.

Ignorance of the law is not a defense. However, you don't need a defense for a probate matter, or for an appeal, because it is not a criminal proceeding. What you do need is competent representation, or grounds for overturning a decision, respectively.

Theoretically, that's true. You don't really NEED a defense. However, you now what happens when you DON'T have one.

I was indeed leaving out some information. As I said, I was trying to be brief. That's why I referenced the web page with the details. And a sad fact of our modern society is that people CAN walk into court and steal a child without real grounds. All you have to do is create a paper trail based on the Original Lie, and magically, it assumes the status of fact. My parents went to every agency they could find, and said I was a drug addict. My problem with that: it isn't true. They said my friends said I used drugs, and they listed some friends I had had a falling-out with, thinking I wouldn't be able to refute it. I brought in sworn statements from those friends, saying they had said nothing of the kind. They said things like, "my handwriting was erratic". They produced a poem I had written and claimed it was a suicide note. (I said, anyone who leaves a suicide note in the form of poetry probably deserves to die.)

There is still SOMETHING that you are not telling. I have never heard of a single case where a child was taken away from a parent due to "bad handwriting".

I mentioned the TPR aspect because I thought it may have a bearing on my right to a PD. They went for TPR as part of the guardianship proceedings, probably because there was just no case at all unless they did so. My rights were NOT terminated. I was NOT found unfit. Yes, I do need a consult with an attorney -- that's what I thought I was doing here.

You don't build your case around a TPR request. There has to be a REASON for it. As YOU pointed out, a defense is not REQUIRED. Therefore, you are not eligible for a public defender.

The Judge awarded them guardianship, and set further followup hearings at 6 month intervals, towards what end specifically I'm not clear on...but I'm glad the case isn't just closed.

We need you to finish the following sentence. When the judge was reading the verdict, "The GP's are awarded guardianship BECAUSE**************"

At this point, my parents still insist at every opportunity to try and defame my character and characterize me as "emotionally unstable". They have filed one hundred and nine pages of "evidence" for this next hearing -- things like the report cards, paperwork from discipline at school, an email I sent the therapist with an article attached that I had found about common behavior in gifted children being misdiagnosed as pathology (i.e., ADHD, OCD, etc.) --- and all this is somehow supposed to make ME look bad.

What's going on is that my mother is on an extended, particularly cruel power-trip, and she's loving every minute of it.

***********************************************

[P.S. Thanks, Stealth.]

You are still leaving SOMETHING out. You still haven't told us what the basis for your parents case was. Are you a criminal, child abuser, dating a child molester, negligent, have multiple personalities?

 

[stealth2]

I posted here because I had SPECIFIC questions for which only an attorney could provide a reliable answer, and the button said, "post your case to an attorney" !

Then you clicked on the wrong button. Because the one you clicked on and got is for general info from various posters vs specifically getting an attorney.

And no - you don't get informed of an ex parte hearing - the whole point is that it is held at one party's request. However, there should have been a follow-up that you would have been informed of. BTDT.

 

[quorumangelorum]

Well, no, I'm really not leaving anything out. You see, my mother is aggressive and manipulative, and always gets her way, while appearing every inch the fine upstanding innocent standing firmly on the high moral ground. She had three attorneys, corporate/investment lawyers actually, doing their pro bono, and the lead attorney was a brand new lawyer who had just passed the bar -- just my luck, I was on the wrong side of her first case. I guarantee you there was a definite element of "awww, isn't that cute, her first case" going on. Everyone wanted her to win her very first case.
But primarily, although I diligently researched as best I could, and wrote and filed answers to everything properly, and had a good defense foe each allegation, the fact is that I was not yet as informed about my rights, precedents like Troxel, procedural strategy, etc. as I have since become; that coupled with the fact that the whole situation was enormously upsetting and rendered me far less articulate in the face of my parents' betrayal than I am in writing --- well, that's how it happened. I genuinely did not know that I could refuse. There was no point at which the judge said, "I order such-and-such because X."
I don't know if I've mentioned that I have a problem with social anxiety in situations where I feel scrutinized and/or judged, of which I would say this was surely the pinnacle.

You are absolutely correct about the buttons, my apologies. I don't mean to get testy, I guess I'm a little defensive though at this point. No offense.

 

[ceara19]

Well, no, I'm really not leaving anything out. You see, my mother is aggressive and manipulative, and always gets her way, while appearing every inch the fine upstanding innocent standing firmly on the high moral ground.

Morality and legality are 2 completely separate issues. She is the grandparent, it doesn't really matter if she is on "moral high ground" or not. A GRANDPARENT cannot take a PARENT to court over custody just because they feel that the child is "better off" with them. She needed to present SOMETHING to the court. It may have been a lie, but "I'm a better parent then my daughter" isn't enough.

She had three attorneys, corporate/investment lawyers actually, doing their pro bono, and the lead attorney was a brand new lawyer who had just passed the bar -- just my luck, I was on the wrong side of her first case. I guarantee you there was a definite element of "awww, isn't that cute, her first case" going on. Everyone wanted her to win her very first case.

Maybe things are different in California, but I have never heard of any case where Legal Aid assigned, pro bono, corporate and investment attorneys to a family court case. A person going through legal aid is lucky to get ONE attorney to spend a MINIMAL amount of time on their case. I find it had to believe that your mother managed to get 3 lawyers to spend ANY time on this case unless she had SOME type of proof that you were a DANGER to the child.

As to this being the lead attorney's first case, in my experience new attorneys are scrutinized more closely because of the fact that they are inexperienced. No judge is going to allow a reversible error to go unchecked just because they are trying to be nice to a new attorney.

But primarily, although I diligently researched as best I could, and wrote and filed answers to everything properly, and had a good defense foe each allegation, the fact is that I was not yet as informed about my rights, precedents like Troxel, procedural strategy, etc. as I have since become; that coupled with the fact that the whole situation was enormously upsetting and rendered me far less articulate in the face of my parents' betrayal than I am in writing --- well, that's how it happened. I genuinely did not know that I could refuse. There was no point at which the judge said, "I order such-and-such because X." I don't know if I've mentioned that I have a problem with social anxiety in situations where I feel scrutinized and/or judged, of which I would say this was surely the pinnacle.

I still don't understand what it is you think you could have refused. Was an AGREED order issued? If the judge issued the order, you have to follow it. You CAN'T refuse a court order.

You are absolutely correct about the buttons, my apologies. I don't mean to get testy, I guess I'm a little defensive though at this point. No offense.

I don't think anyone is offended. It's just that there IS more to this story. Maybe you honestly don't KNOW what it is, but there IS more. What was the basis of the Ex Parte hearing? What EXACTLY (word for word) did the judge order as a result of the hearing?

So far, all of the information you have given has been long on emotion and short on actual FACTS. What evidence did your mother present in court to support her claim that you are unable to properly care for the child? What evidence did YOU present?

These are questions that HAVE to be answered before anyone can give you PROPER legal advice. You don't have to give any more information then you want to here, but a private attorney isn't going to be able to help you any more then the people here have until these questions are answered.

 

[LdiJ]

No one can give you any truly valid advice without understanding what happened. You are NOT giving us the facts that we need. You are dancing around things instead of answering questions.

When you decide to consult with a local attorney, please save yourself some money by giving the specific facts.