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  1. #1
    Whyte Noise is offline Senior Member
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    Recording "in person" conversations

    What is the name of your state? Missouri

    OK, this might not be the right forum, but I'm going to ask anyways...

    I know Missouri is a one party state for recording phone conversations, already have that going. But what about in person conversations? CJ's ex is bringing the girls between 2 and 3 today so he can give them their Christmas gifts, and he wants to ask her about getting the girls for his weekend visitation next Friday. He and I both know she's going to deny it. She's going to use every excuse she can think of. (You have a cat, they are allergic... His dad and step-mom have a cat also, but she lets the girls go there at least one weekend a month. You smoke outside, but it's still on your clothes.... his step-father smokes outside when him and CJ's mom has the girls, and she doesnt deny them visitation because of that.... etc. etc. etc.) *Oh, these are all old excuses, she uses at least one of them every time*

    I have looked, but all I can find are phone recording laws. We know she's gonna raise holy hell when he asks for his court ordered visitation today, and I'm wondering if we can record the entire conversation, from the time she gets here, til the time she leaves. Anyone know??
  2. #2
    karma1 is offline Senior Member
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    are you talking video recording or tape?

    Since he doesnt get to see the kids much, I would think a video recording would not only seem more natural-he's taping the gift exchange-his Christmas with the kids, that sort of thing---
    not sure about if its a voice recording and you are sneaking it?
  3. #3
    Lil Miss Smarty Panties Guest
    shoot, if you don't find out before the visit happens, record it anyways. I don't see why this would be any different than recording a phone call. And you're not even dealing with FCC laws with a face to face convo. What law COULD be broken?
  4. #4
    CMSC is offline Senior Member
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    Wow! Good question, I do know that MIssouri has an eavesdropping law, if you aren't party to a conversation you can't record it at all. But if CJ got out a video camera and held it in her face then she obviously knows she is being recorded.


    I don't know if not telling her would be illegal, sorry, I am not much help!LOL

    I guess just get out a recorder and tell her you are taping her. If she denies you have it on tape, if she accepts and doesn't show up, you have it on tape!
  5. #5
    Whyte Noise is offline Senior Member
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    Anyone have a cam corder they can ship to me in 3 hours?

    It's just a voice recording. Not a video recording. We do have a 35mm camera that we're going to take pictures of the kids with, because we know they'll be here in stained up holey clothes.... they always are. She doesn't care about how she dresses her children. The only time those girls get new clothes is when CJ and his mom buys them. Otherwise, the get hand me downs from cousins that are too big for them. Last time CJ saw them his youngest had on a pair of shoes that kept falling off her foot while she was sitting in his lap at Pizza Hut. Not to mention the deal back in April when his real mom got them for the weekend.....

    I wish we did have a video recorder. Not just to document today, but so that he'd have something to remind him of Christmas with them. Yes, LW.... he's gonna "sneak it". He's going to have the recorder in his jeans pocket and be recording. So, he IS a party to the conversation at least and he's the one that's doing the recording. It's not me recording from around the corner eavesdropping on their conversation. She may not even come inside. She didn't when she brought them to our other apartment back in June. So he might have to go outside to talk to her about it, and I won't even be out there. I look at it like this.... I'll help him all I can... write up court filings, parenting plans, write documentation, transcribe phone conversations, etc. But I will NOT get into any type of argument with her whatsoever. The only reason I talked to her the other night was because when she called here, CJ was in the bed. He had to work that night. She's the one that started in on me on the phone, talking about his CS and all.

    So, it's just basically a little voice recorder that he's going to have in his jeans pocket. Didn't know if that would violate any laws on recording because I can only find laws about phone conversation recording. I guess he can just record it, and if it's not admissable, it's not admissable. She'll still be getting a letter of Intent to exercise visitation Tuesday anyways...
  6. #6
    CMSC is offline Senior Member
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    Whoa! Hang on there hon! Just don't want you to get into trouble, CJ is much better off telling her he is recording, he can just say out loud, "You are being recorded" but don't show her the recorder and maybe she won't believe him and say something stupid. Missouri has a hefty fine for violating a person's rights when recording. So if you can't find the statute about recording in person then I would just tell her flat out what he is doing. It is better than the fine!
  7. #7
    Whyte Noise is offline Senior Member
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    All I can find are wiretapping statutes...

    2. It is not unlawful under the provisions of sections 542.400 to 542.422:

    (2) For a person acting under law to intercept a wire or oral communication, where such person is a party to the communication or where one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception;

    (3) For a person not acting under law to intercept a wire communication where such person is a party to the communication or where one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless such communication is intercepted for the purpose of committing any criminal or tortious act

    Although, I wonder if #2 above would apply... it does say "oral". (No comments from the Peanut Gallery please )

    What exactly does "Acting under law" mean? The phone recordings are covered under #3 for sure, but I need a definitiion of that "acting under law" part to know if CJ will be doing that by gathering evidence for his case....

    Where's IAAL when ya need him??
  8. #8
    CMSC is offline Senior Member
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    hehe, you said oral!

    What I read about wiretapping is that the statute was written with regards to law enforcement, hence the term "under law". In Missouri you have to get an order from the courts to allow law enforcement to wire tap...atleast that is how I read what i saw.
  9. #9
    Rldunc Guest
    I think the "under law" means wearing a wire, as in undercover drug deals or mafia stuff. The person wearing the wire knows he's recording everybody, plus he might have a warrant. For CJ, as in #3, as long as he knows he's being recorded, I think it's OK. He's the one party. I would tell him to mention the date and time somewhere in the convo, and then he can tell her he's recording. This way it places her voice, his voice, Dec 29, 02, all on the tape, better chance of it being admissible.
    I've heard that courts don't like tapes and photos for evidence, too easily doctored. It's different when law enforcement does it and turn it in to the DA right away with the arrest.
    Goodluck!
  10. #10
    Whyte Noise is offline Senior Member
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    Wiretapping doesn't apply in this case though I don't think. There is no wiretap on the phone, it's an external recording device. In order to place a wiretap you have to have consent of a judge. BUT, a party to a phone conversation in a one party state can record that conversation without the other parties knowledge. It's the recording of the visit itself I wasnt sure about...

    The visit came and went. And went like we thought it would. He took her on a tour of our apartment. Showed her the bedroom where the girls would sleep. While he was doing that his youngest told me, "I hope mama lets us stay on weekends. I miss my dad." She told her dad, "I'm glad I FINALLY get to see you! I miss you all the time." And one of the reasons his ex uses for denial of visitation is "The girls don't want to see you anyways." Yeah..... right.

    Right before they left, his oldest went to put some of her gifts in the room they have here so that when (not IF, but WHEN) they come here, they'll have them. When she did, her mom went with her back there. They came back up here, and she said, "Come here dad". He had his youngest on his lap and he told her "YOU come here kiddo". She walked over and whispered to him... (You know how kids whisper, it's loud enough for everyone to hear....) "I wish you'd start paying all the child support." Now, TELL me that when her and her mom went back to the bedroom to put those toys up, the mom didn't tell her to tell her dad that!! Putting her child up to saying something like that... I'm sorry, but a 9 year old child who just seconds before was all lovey-dovey on her dad and wanting to stay with him, does NOT just come up with that off the wall.

    After this was said, his youngest asked if they were going to stay with him next weekend. He told her "You'll have to ask your mom if it's ok, she won't answer me." (He'd mentioned it 3 times by this time, and not once did she respond to him.) She looked at her mom and said, "MOM??" And Mom said, "We have OTHER things that have to be worked out first." He told her... "No time like the present." Again, she didn't answer him. Then, she told her youngest, "So you better make SURE you want to leave your gifts here, because there's no telling when you'll get to see them again." The youngest said, "I do want to leave them here." Mom said, "Well then, go get in the car, we have to go."

    I still didn't find anything under the Missouri Statutes, but I did under Federal..

    18 U.S.C 2511
    (2)(d) It shall not be unlawful under this chapter for a person not acting under color of law to intercept a wire, oral, or electronic communication where such person is a party to the communication or where one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless such communication is intercepted for the purpose of committing any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States or of any State.

    Under Federal Law, it's not unlawful for a person who is NOT under color of law to intercept oral communications as long as they are a party, or one party has given consent. If it's not admissable, then it's not admissable. But from what I can find, it looks like it would be. And I'll find out for sure tomorrow when I make a few calls. Even if it's not, since his ex didn't give him any answers about the girls spending next weekend other than "We have other things to work out first" and not explaining what those "things" are, he'll be phoning her tomorrow about that. I'm sure she'll repeat what was said today plus a whole lot more....
  11. #11
    Whyte Noise is offline Senior Member
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    OK, found out the law in Missouri on oral or in person communications.

    Called three different attorney's. Each one of them said that yes, as long as you are a party to the conversation and know you are being recording, or are the one recording your own conversation it can be admissable as evidence. So now it's on tape that his children do want to come here, and that just proves that the other tapes we have of his ex saying "The girls don't want to see you anyways" is her attempt to come up with excuses for denial of visitation. It's on tape where his 9 year old daughter asked him about child support right after she'd left the room with her mother and came back. It's on tape of his children asking her to let them come and stay with him, and her saying "We have other things to work out first." (don't know if the children's voices will be allowed to be heard or not though.) So with these being admissable, it just kinda digs her hole even deeper, because her own children prove her to be a liar...
  12. #12
    fried eggs is offline Member
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    I distinctly recall reading that a US court upheld that a person can be recorded as long as they do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy. You can record whatever you want in your own home, outside of the bathroom, etc. Recording in someone else's home with out their knowledge, taboo.

    A UK court OTOH, in a ruling regarding a man using a camera pointed up to see up women's skirts, ruled that they did not have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

    No, I don't have references for this information, I just gleaned it in passing.
  13. #13
    local498 Guest

    wisconsin

    Hi.
    Can anyone tell me if it is permissible under Wisconsin law to tape record a conversation with another person? Must the other person be informed of the taping prior to the act? The setting would likely be a public place (mall store). Is this admissible in court for filing harassment charges or for seeking a restraining order?
  14. #14
    KCMR Guest
    thank you for pointing that out.
  15. #15
    kidoday is offline Senior Member
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    Brilliant Cryrose - just brilliant not only can you read you can search for people.

    Don't you think trolls do the same?

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