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Rights as Single Mother in FL

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Chrissy1982

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Florida

I just wanted to know as a single mother in Florida (never married), what are my rights concerning child custody (legal & physical)? What are the rights of the biological father? Our baby (recently born in April 2004) lives with my mother and I, and I am the one that supports him, as well as take care of him every day. The father has discussed with me the idea of taking our to visit his family in another state (KY), but I told him no. What rights does he have concerning this and could he take me to court to take the baby out of state?

I would definitely appreciate any help anyone could give me.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Christine
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
Chrissy1982 said:
What is the name of your state? Florida

I just wanted to know as a single mother in Florida (never married), what are my rights concerning child custody (legal & physical)? What are the rights of the biological father? Our baby (recently born in April 2004) lives with my mother and I, and I am the one that supports him, as well as take care of him every day. The father has discussed with me the idea of taking our to visit his family in another state (KY), but I told him no. What rights does he have concerning this and could he take me to court to take the baby out of state?
You are in control until he takes it to court and petitions for visitation rights (and obligates himself for child support at the same time). If paternity isn't legally established he will have to do that first. His visitation will start out as short frequent visits, and it would be quite a while before he would have the kind of extended visitation that would allow him the TIME to take your child out of state to visit his family. Of course he could go to court and try to get a judge to give him permission to take your child out of state for an extended visit but the odds of that happening any time soon are extremely slim. His family should come to Florida to visit if they want to see the baby. That is just pure common sense.
 

Chrissy1982

Junior Member
LdiJ said:
You are in control until he takes it to court and petitions for visitation rights (and obligates himself for child support at the same time). If paternity isn't legally established he will have to do that first. His visitation will start out as short frequent visits, and it would be quite a while before he would have the kind of extended visitation that would allow him the TIME to take your child out of state to visit his family. Of course he could go to court and try to get a judge to give him permission to take your child out of state for an extended visit but the odds of that happening any time soon are extremely slim. His family should come to Florida to visit if they want to see the baby. That is just pure common sense.
Thank you so much for your reply and advice! We established paternity at the hospital when the baby was born. Right now I am allowing the father visitation with baby 7 days a week, before he goes to work, on his days off, and until 8 PM when he doesn't work at night. I am being very flexible and generous with him, as I truly think it is important that he be involved in our baby's life. However, the father seems to be a father when it is convenient for him, and I feel that is wrong. Regarding this, is there anything I can do to let him know that he needs to be involved 100% or not involved at all? Also, how would child support work in a case like this?

Regarding the travel, then there is no problem if I do not consent to traveling with him to KY with the baby or with him going to KY with the baby? I have repeatedly told him and his family that they are more than welcome to come visit (at my home) the baby whenever they want (just to let me know ahead of time).

Thanks again for helping me! I really appreciate it.

Christine
 

haiku

Senior Member
woah! hold it, it is correct that without any legal visitation established that you do hold all the cards BUT you have never stated whether or not paternity was established. in some states establishing paternity gives equal rights to both parents. (Florida being "kindof" a southern state makes me think it may not, but without seeing the laws I cannot tell you) this would mean he has as much right as you to keep the baby from YOU.

LDJ is not completely correct that visitation if requested would start out small. your ex has an established relationship with his child based on your own admission of daily visitation. (your comment about 100% involvment? You cannot expect that if you are going to control every minute of time he gets with HIS child)

there is really no reason why the court would not possibly grant overnight visitation at this time. (unless Fl. has some sort of ruling about that, but once again I don't know) it is actually quite common and NORMAL in ALL states,for daddies to get overnight visits with thier infants.


Also once visitation is granted he has every right to take his child out of state without your permission. visitation is time for the other parent to PARENT without interference form the other parent.

You should not wait for the ex to go for visitation. YOU need to petition the court yourself, for custody and visitation. this will only protect, you, your ex and most importantly the baby. If you and your ex are getting along, there should be no reason why you cannot work out a visitation plan that works for all of you. And will stop any misunderstandings you BOTH are currently having.

An attorney consult is cheap when it comes to the future for your child and you.
good luck to you!
 
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K

krispenstpeter

Guest
Chrissy, before you jump for joy over Ldij's response, you had better familiarize yourself with Florida law.

There is not a standard visitation schedule set out in the Florida Statutes.

Florida is divided into several court districts, and each of these districts may have adopted it's own "standard visitation" schedule.

Visitation, however, is discussed in Chapter 61.13 of the Florida Statutes.

Unless a couple can agree on a visitation schedule, the court may determine visitation based on several factors, including the child's age.

Denial of court ordered visitation, to the non-custodial parent, may result in the loss of custody of the child, for the custodial parent, and can be a cause for a "substantial change of circumstances."

I would also strongly suggest you visit the following site and search for Florida Attorney General opinions on visitation:

http://www.flcourts.org/index.html

Because the father has as much right to his child as you do, YOU have no say in the scope and/or type of visitation any longer. Now it's up to the court.

So, what is your next step?
 

Whyte Noise

Senior Member
You said the father has visitation:

"with baby 7 days a week, before he goes to work, on his days off, and until 8 PM when he doesn't work at night."

Then, you say:

"I am being very flexible and generous with him, as I truly think it is important that he be involved in our baby's life. However, the father seems to be a father when it is convenient for him, and I feel that is wrong."

If he's seeing the child 7 days a week, how much more "involved" do you want the man to be? Should he take the child to work with him too?

Sorry, I don't see your rationale in saying he's only a father when it's convenient for him, then saying that he sees his child 7 days a week.
 
K

krispenstpeter

Guest
Now how did I know that MG would be here in a flash ??? :D
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
haiku said:
LDJ is not completely correct that visitation if requested would start out small. your ex has an established relationship with his child based on your own admission of daily visitation. (your comment about 100% involvment? You cannot expect that if you are going to control every minute of time he gets with HIS child) !
Actually I am correct, however you are correct too. She is starting the short, frequent visits voluntarily, so that step is already in the works, and a court won't have to deal with it.

haiku said:
Also once visitation is granted he has every right to take his child out of state without your permission. visitation is time for the other parent to PARENT without interference form the other parent.!
True again, but in order to take the child from FL to KY he is going to need a longer visitation period than a single overnight. Its going to be a while before he has more than a single overnight at a time.

haiku said:
You should not wait for the ex to go for visitation. YOU need to petition the court yourself, for custody and visitation. this will only protect, you, your ex and most importantly the baby. If you and your ex are getting along, there should be no reason why you cannot work out a visitation plan that works for all of you. And will stop any misunderstandings you BOTH are currently having.

An attorney consult is cheap when it comes to the future for your child and you.
good luck to you!
That isn't always the best choice. Sometimes if the father has inappropriate ideas, (like traveling out of state with a one month old) its better to put off going to court for a bit so that the mother retains full control while the infant is tiny. Its a matter of timing.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
You know what? Married parents travel "out of state" (there is such a thing as airplanes) with young babies all the time. I know many parents who have traveled with very young babies to their "out-of state" family gatherings for this or that holiday or wedding.

Also, Adoptive parents pick up their kids and travel "out of state" to their new homes all the time- I know a great many who have made such trips with very young babies, and travelled considerably further than FL to KY. Some of these were even special needs kids. Even from Guatamala, Mexico and China! A newborn SLEEPS most of the trip. Plenty of new moms travel "out of state" with their new child to their own parents.

It is NOT inappropriate just because it is dad doing it. This is potentially merely a plane ride, NOT a dash across the Alps. And there are unmarried parents on these forums whose babies had weekends with dad from about the beginning- not just overnights.
 
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haiku

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
Actually I am correct, however you are correct too. She is starting the short, frequent visits voluntarily, so that step is already in the works, and a court won't have to deal with it.

***UMM, in some states, father sdon't start with short visits with thier newborn they get regular weekly and weekend overnights right away.***



True again, but in order to take the child from FL to KY he is going to need a longer visitation period than a single overnight. Its going to be a while before he has more than a single overnight at a time.

***And how do YOU know what a judge will rule?***



That isn't always the best choice. Sometimes if the father has inappropriate ideas, (like traveling out of state with a one month old) its better to put off going to court for a bit so that the mother retains full control while the infant is tiny. Its a matter of timing.

*** full control? umm no...its about BOTH parents getting equal time with THIER baby. She needs a legal agreement in place NOW or she could risk losing what she already has. And what the heck is wrong with traveling out of state with a 1 month old? sheesh.....***

Please, OP get a in person lawyer consult.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
nextwife said:
You know what? Married parents travel "out of state" (there is such a thing as airplanes) with young babies all the time. I know many parents who have traveled with very young babies to their "out-of state" family gatherings for this or that holiday or wedding.

Also, Adoptive parents pick up their kids and travel "out of state" to their new homes all the time- I know a great many who have made such trips with very young babies, and travelled considerably further than FL to KY. Some of these were even special needs kids. Even from Guatamala, Mexico and China! A newborn SLEEPS most of the trip. Plenty of new moms travel "out of state" with their new child to their own parents.

It is NOT inappropriate just because it is dad doing it. This is potentially merely a plane ride, NOT a dash across the Alps. And there are unmarried parents on these forums whose babies had weekends with dad from about the beginning- not just overnights.

Its not the traveling that is the issue (although my pediatrician recommended no traveling for the first 6 weeks of my daughter's life) its the separating a newborn from their primary caretaker for the duration of the trip. Its a well known fact in child developement circles that separating a newborn infant from its primary caretaker for more than 8 hours or so at a time can and does cause attachment disorders.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
Please advise which of the infant/attachment studies you are quoting that has an 8 hour window of attachment damage?
 

nextwife

Senior Member
If a father has ample opportunity to be caregiver to his own child as well as mom, he will also be a primary caregiver, FYI.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I think that some of the posters here may not be very up to date on how visitation orders are working these days when we are talking about situations where the parents are not together at the time the child is born. (the situation is completely different if the parents lived together for the first few months of the infants life).

Please do some research. Fathers truly are not getting immediate overnights and weekends with newborns, at least not unless its done through an agreement rather than by a judge's decision. The other exception is where the actual orders are made after the infant is already 8 or more month old and the bonding process between the infant and child has been ongoing since birth.

In addition, a mother who is cooperating with visitation, even if she doesn't allow overnights or extended visitation is not considered to be "denying visitation". Certainly the mother in this case is not denying visitation since the father and child see each other basically 7 days a week.

Visitation generally starts out with short, frequent visits in the mother's home to allow the child and father the opportunity to bond. Then it graduates to short and frequent visits outside the home, then to longer visits outside the home, and then to the occasional overnight, then to a more normal type of schedule. This is all based on child developement and the needs of the child at various stages of infancy.

The Gal's, casa workers, and others who assist the judges in making these decisions are very up to date on child developement and what is best for a child at each stage. Sure, you can have a Gal or casa worker who is an exception to this, but it wouldn't be the norm. Sure there are state's out there that do not have laws or formal guidelines spelling these things out, but to assume that the courts and the court helpers are not following child developement patterns in making best interest decisions, simply because formal guidelines don't exist, is making an incorrect assumption.

You can't compare the one time disruption to an infant that occurs with an adoption, to the consistant back and forth that occurs in parental visitation.

This is an issue that I have studied heavily. It has everything to do with child developement and is intended to facilitate the bonding between the father and child, not to deny the father his rights. A happily bonded infant, that is not dealing with attachment issues responds well to his/her father and the time they spend together is quality time. An infant who is dealing with attachment issues can actually begin to fear his father and can be severely stressed or even traumatized by visitation and it can bode badly for the father/child relationship.
 

Whyte Noise

Senior Member
And LdiJ, I don't think you understand what the others are saying.

The father in THIS situation is spending time with his child each and every day of the week according to the OP. I also don't think you understand or remember that a one month old infant spends the majority of each day sleeping. Therefore, the child would have NO difficulty in being with the other parent 8 hours a day.

Tell me, just how is this poster's situation different than a married couple, where the father works 8, 10, 12 hours a day, comes home, and spends some time with his infant child? The OP says that he spends time with her before work (as would a married father), on his days off (as would a married father), and until 8 PM on the nights he doesn't work nights (as would a married father, because the child's bedtime is probably 8 PM or so.)

Explain how your analogy would apply in THIS OP's situation, when according to her, the father is spending a substantial amount of time with the infant now.

It doesn't matter what your "studies" say "can" happen, ALL that applies is the OP's situation. And quite frankly, by her own admission, this so-called "absent" father is spending as much time with this one month old child as my ex husband (who was the breadwinner in our family) spent with OUR children when they were the same age, and he and I were still married and living in the same household.

Quite frankly, with the staus quo having been established already by this father having a substantial amount of time with his child (by the poster's own admission that the father spends time with the child 7 days a week), a judge would be loathe to change that status quo.
 

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