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  1. #1
    logan1275 Guest

    Question surrender of rights/support/custody

    What is the name of your state?
    Florida



    I was recently informed that I may have a five year old son. I am attempting to do a voluntary surrender of my parental rights due to the extreme situation with which the child is in. Any assistance in finding viable case law would be appreciative. I have had no contact with the child nor did I know of his existence till 3 days before I was summoned to court as a prospective father. If there is any information that could aid me in the surrender of my rights I would be appreciative.
  2. #2
    Seanscott is offline Member
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    You cannot be relieved of your obligation to pay support simply by saying "I terminate my rights". The courts feel you are the biological father and you have to help support the child.

    If the mom has married and her husband wants to adopt the child, then you can terminate your rights & obligations quite easily.

    If you are proven to be the father, and there is no one willing to adopt the child, then you are the one to foot the bill.
  3. #3
    logan1275 Guest
    The issue is a bit more complicated than that Sean. The mother is not seeking support my proposed son, is one of her 3 children that has been taken away from her. She is still with the father of the other two children, however they are not married. The issue is of how I am to be held responsible for a decision that I was not involved in 5 years ago.
  4. #4
    Grace_Adler is offline Senior Member
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    Look I am in no way trying to offend you or anything because I don't have all the details but I'm going to be blunt and tell you like a judge would tell you regarding how you are held responsible for a decision you say you had no part of 5 years ago. You made the decision to sleep with someone. When you do that you run the chance of getting that person pregnant. There is NO method of NOT getting pregnant that is 100% except abstinance...(sp?). So you were involved. I think it's just as much the man's responsibility to see if that woman got pregnant as it is for the woman to let the man know.. (I'm talking about under normal circumstances). Do you see what I'm saying? Both of you are responsible for this child like it or not. You both consented to sex right? Which means you both accept it if a baby comes out of it. I know someone right now that had their tubes tied and is on birth control and STILL got pregnant! It happens! That's a risk you take just like STDS. All I can say is live and learn!

    You can go to search engines to find legal links on terminating your parental rights but I doubt it will do any good unless you have a really good reason. Like I said just telling you from things I've read about.

    I know it's none of my business but I'm extremely curious as to why you want to give them up. Especially if her children are being taken away. Foster care is not the place I'd want to send a child.. no offense to the good foster parents out there.
  5. #5
    CMSC is offline Senior Member
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    Well, I can't keep my big mouth shut but I think you should terminate your rights and do it immediately if the courts will let you. This child doesn't need a parent who doesn't want him in the first place. What kind of person are you to let this child get pushed into the system? You could take this child and raise him in a loving environment, why don't you want to do that?

    You absolutely will NOT be relinquished of support obligation especially if this child is in foster care! You owe someone for the care of the child. If you are out of the picture for so long and the foster parents decide to adopt then you may have a real shot at doing it if the courts will not let you do it immediately.

    florida statute for rights termination is at this link
    [url]http://www.calib.com/nccanch/pubs/sag/groundtermin.cfm[/url]
  6. #6
    logan1275 Guest
    The reason I want to sign away my rights, is the fact that it is in the best interest of the child, as well as myself. I currently live an hour away and am working on completing my Bachelor's Degree. If the situation arises it would end up being that I would seek full custody of the child. Which would include me having to quit school, sell my current car for something less reliable, have to search for a new job(I currently work nights), let alone moving the child to a new place 1 hour away from the family he has known. Which includes 2 younger siblings, that he is currently still living with in the care of other family members. The court is intending on returning the children to the mother as soon as they are back into a stable living environment. I know the situation sounds like I am a deadbeat, by wanting to give away my rights. I have taken great pains in coming to this decision with little time in my favor. The attorney the court has appointed seems to believe that due to the "abnormal" circumstances of the situation that voluntarily surrending my rights will be accepted. I was just hoping to find some additional information on the subject in the reference of case law.
  7. #7
    CMSC is offline Senior Member
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    Okay I was a little confused at first. I thought you wanted to terminate your rights because this child would be in foster care. But know I realize you just want to terminate your rights so you don't have to pay. Why do I come to this conclusion? Because you said if you don't give up your rights you want full custody and you having full custody means you would not have to pay support. You could attempt to stay close to your child by going for 50/50 custody. Most cases where there is 50/50 no support is paid. You work at night, do you work every night? You go to school and do you do this everyday? You need to sit down and rethink this whole thing. You could arrange to have the child with you on the days you are not in school and the nights you don't work. You are only an hour away from the child's family and that is not bad at all.
    As far as all you will have to "give up" to become a decent responsible parent, it is all worth it in the end. So what if you have to drive a station wagon instead of a BMW, do you really think your son cares?? You would not have to search for a new job if you put your bachelors degree on hold for just a bit. You take the child during the day and work at night (let mom have child then). This child is almost school age, then you can go to school while child is in school. It is possible, I know because my husband did it and we have 4 children!!
  8. #8
    logan1275 Guest
    Ma'am I do not wish to get into an argument with you in reference to this matter. I only asked a simple question, for assistance. It is not solely a financial matter, if you would have read what I wrote I think you would understand that. I no longer am in contact with this woman for a reason. Our relationship was brief, I have not seen her in 5 years, till I was summoned to the court. When I was told 3rd party that she might be pregnant 5 years ago I left messages for her to contact me. When I NEVER heard anything from her it was infered that either the issue was "taken care of" or she lost the child. Which both cases are quite common nowadays, I do not wish to offend you or any decisions you have made. I was not allowed to make one in this instance, that is why I do not wish to add myself into this childs life at this point in time, as far as your idea of 50/50 time with the mother. At present the mother does not have transportation, which would mean that it would involve me driving that hour both ways twice a day, as far as the days I have off I have two, both of which I work a part time job right now to build my assets for when I am in school when the fall semester begins in 5 weeks. I did not mean to argue on this point, I appreciate your advicce although I do not appreciate the personal attacks.
  9. #9
    Seanscott is offline Member
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    Well Logan - it seems this thread has kind of gotten of the subject of your main question. Even though it's none of my business, I'm going to throw my two cents worth in.

    You are obviously well-educated and polite. The mother obviously has some problems. She has to be in pretty bad shape for the state to take her children away.

    If this child is yours, please consider taking full custody. The joys of being a parent far outweigh the expenses and the time. This child is a part of you. You can provide a much better home and a much brighter future for him than his mother. Think about it. It's a debt you owe. Do the right thing.

    With you, the child could go to college and have a happy, stable life. With his mom - he may grow up to be a welfare bum.

    I know I'm reading a lot into the lifestyles of both of you, and of course I could be wrong. But you OWE it to this child to help!

    Good luck.
  10. #10
    pthalo Guest

    had to make my opinion known...

    logan first off please send me an email I think we need to talk.. Our situations are too similar for me to let this go... (alot of differences too though)...

    Secondly, five days, five months, five years, it doesn't matter he is still your son and that should mean the world to you.. My advice to you is to not worry about giving up your rights.. Make this child the most important part of your life and cherish every moment....

    I'm not a lawyer so I don't know hte case law, but I really don't think this is that extreme of a case and I don't think the courts will just role over and say, if you don't want the responsibility then I guess the state will shoulder the burden.. Also with the extreme situation thing.. Do you really think that the foster care system is going to be any less extreme than the present situation...

    Please contact me I would like to discuss this with you more openly...
  11. #11
    CMSC is offline Senior Member
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    Here is some help:

    There are many dependency cases where it is in the best interest of the child(ren) for parental rights to be terminated. Unless the department files a termination petition alleging egregious abuse, they must have a previous adjudication of dependency and have entered into a case plan with the parent before they can proceed with termination of parental rights. Egregious abuse is defined as conduct of a parent that is deplorable, flagrant, or outrageous by a normal standard of conduct. A petition for TPR can be filed under the following circumstances: written surrender by parent, unknown parent, continued lack of compliance with the case plan and egregious abuse. Termination proceedings follow through all the channels that a dependency proceeding do in that it goes through arraignment to an adjudicatory hearing. In a hearing on a petition for TPR, the court shall consider the elements required for termination as set forth in FS 39.4611. Each of these elements must be established by clear and convincing evidence.


    [url]http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/cb/publications/adopt02/02adpt6.htm[/url]

    See Hardin & Lancour, op. cit., 31-37
    Fla. Sess. Laws, Ch 98-403 88, to be codified as Fla. Stat. 39.806(2)

    [url]www.nolo.com[/url]

    I guess I am judgemental but you showed no where in your post of how horrible and detrimental it would be to this child to have someone stable and caring like you in his life. You only showed how it woud effect and disrupt YOUR life.
    Good luck.
  12. #12
    A.J.HASEK Guest
    I AGREE WITH RYRY it is so sad for the child i wish i could take him as for getting out of cs i am willing to bet it is in the single percentage range
  13. #13
    JaneyS4 is offline Member
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    Please Read this:

    Originally posted by logan1275
    Ma'am I do not wish to get into an argument with you in reference to this matter. I only asked a simple question, for assistance. It is not solely a financial matter, if you would have read what I wrote I think you would understand that. I no longer am in contact with this woman for a reason. Our relationship was brief, I have not seen her in 5 years, till I was summoned to the court. When I was told 3rd party that she might be pregnant 5 years ago I left messages for her to contact me. When I NEVER heard anything from her it was infered that either the issue was "taken care of" or she lost the child. Which both cases are quite common nowadays, I do not wish to offend you or any decisions you have made. I was not allowed to make one in this instance, that is why I do not wish to add myself into this childs life at this point in time, as far as your idea of 50/50 time with the mother. At present the mother does not have transportation, which would mean that it would involve me driving that hour both ways twice a day, as far as the days I have off I have two, both of which I work a part time job right now to build my assets for when I am in school when the fall semester begins in 5 weeks. I did not mean to argue on this point, I appreciate your advicce although I do not appreciate the personal attacks.
    This case is so much like the one my relative is going through its scary! We are dealing right now with the state of Florida DFC so I know what I am saying so PLEASE read this all the way though and think about it!

    First to answer your legal question:

    Yes, you can give up your parental rights, but it won't release you from child support unless the mother gets the child back, gets married and a DFC worker deems her husband a fit adoptable father. (Once DFC is in her life, its in for life. She won't make another move for a long time without them breathing down her neck) Furthermore, the state WILL eventually come after you for reimbursment for the money they spend on this childs welfare, whether you give up your rights or not. So basically, giving your rights up is not going to release you of your financial obligation. Hope that answers your question. If you question this information, I urge you to contact a lawyer that is knowledgable in family law and ask them. We just went though all this and this is what we were told.

    Now, just to inform you of some things you may not know. DFC in the state of FLorida is a God-awful mess. Incompetent and self-serving people have been allowed to run it for a very long time and its only just now being uncovered. I can send you horror story after horror story of kids being taken for false reasons, kids being placed with foster parents that have had their own biological kids taken for abuse and neglect, and of children being killed because of bad foster parents, improper supervision from DFC, and even several cases of kids just disappearing while under the departments care. I can send you link after link of legitamite news stories about the deplorable policies within DFC, money imbezzlement, false testimonies, dangerous actions, and even murder in the department itself. All you have to do is ask and I can post them for you to see.

    What I am trying to get to here is that if the mother has lost her children to DFC, it is very likely she wont get them back. DFC makes money from taking kids, gets incentives and bonuses for getting kids put up for adoption (age considered "adoptable" is newborn to 5) and for the last few years it has been more of a money making operation for the folks in it than it has been making sure kids were safe. These people will lie there collective A**s off to a judge, and he will listen because they are DFC and your child stands a very good chance of being put in a foster home where the foster parents havent been properly investigated and may have records of being abusers of one sort or another. Or he may be put up for adoption and go to an home that can also hold the same dangers. Its happened more times than you can think of in just this last year.

    I offer this advise to you. You don't seem to want the responsiblity of this child. Fine, I don't think someone who doesn't want kids should have them. Not good for the kids. But if you have a family member or good friend that might be willing to take responsiblity for this child, it is in your childs best intrest for you to talk to them, talk to DFC and try to get that in motion. Even if you don't want the child, you don't want him living in misery do you?

    Just consider what I have told you. I can back it up with evidence if you like. Just do your child a favor and get him out of that Hell hole they call DFC in Florida.
  14. #14
    Joe Oldendick Guest

    I'm new here..so don't beat me up.

    The issue is of how I am to be held responsible for a decision that I was not involved in 5 years ago.

    I'm new..don't beat me up..but I HAD to look at this sentence a couple times...

    Comment removed
    Last edited by Joe Oldendick; 07-11-2002 at 10:04 AM.
  15. #15
    coolmomof4 is offline Member
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    Perhaps I missed something here, but do you even know for sure if you ARE the father?? Have you ordered a paternity test? If not, then all of this may be for naught.

    If you have been proven the father, then listen to Janey. The FL system is screwed up to say the least. And it is documented.

    I agree that if you really don't want this child because of your education etc. try to find a relative close by that will take him. And be willing to pay them for it. Then you can cultivate a relationship with the child AND finish your education. Then, when you can provide a stable home, you can take him.

    Please understand that I am not bashing you when I say this, but you really need to get past the argument that you were not involved in the decision to have this child. The child will suffer greatly in the system.

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