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Therapist called CPS, I need some advice

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Proserpina

Senior Member
I took both my children to the drop off location for dads holiday parenting time that started tonight. One child went, the other did not and came back home with me.

He threw such a fit about going, that dad got out of his car, and dad threw even a bigger fit. This has happened many times before. Dad screams at me, blames me, then screams at our child. Tells him he is a big baby, a mommy's boy and he is not taking a baby with him. Dad then gets in his car and drives off with only the one child.

My son is so happy, he got his way, plus he now knows that the therapist did call CPS. In dads screams at me, he said I called CPS on him, and he now has to deal with them, and I will pay for that.

CPS is now going to open a case on me and I will go through that. Dad is going to file contempt on me for our son not going. I will have to go to court and defend that.

I've already done this, it's the same thing that has happened at least once every year, sometimes more. CPS will investigate and close my case, maybe dad will get a plan, he will do that, and they will close his. Court won't find me in contempt, dad will get lectured to stop filing contempt on me, when I was at the drop off with the child and he refused to take the child.

In the end, I still have a kid that is not coping here, I still have nothing more then emotional crap. I still have no one to help me teach the child to cope.

Who exactly is the parent here?
 


Ohiogal

Queen Bee
I took both my children to the drop off location for dads holiday parenting time that started tonight. One child went, the other did not and came back home with me.

He threw such a fit about going, that dad got out of his car, and dad threw even a bigger fit. This has happened many times before. Dad screams at me, blames me, then screams at our child. Tells him he is a big baby, a mommy's boy and he is not taking a baby with him. Dad then gets in his car and drives off with only the one child.

My son is so happy, he got his way, plus he now knows that the therapist did call CPS. In dads screams at me, he said I called CPS on him, and he now has to deal with them, and I will pay for that.

CPS is now going to open a case on me and I will go through that. Dad is going to file contempt on me for our son not going. I will have to go to court and defend that.

I've already done this, it's the same thing that has happened at least once every year, sometimes more. CPS will investigate and close my case, maybe dad will get a plan, he will do that, and they will close his. Court won't find me in contempt, dad will get lectured to stop filing contempt on me, when I was at the drop off with the child and he refused to take the child.

In the end, I still have a kid that is not coping here, I still have nothing more then emotional crap. I still have no one to help me teach the child to cope.
You need to learn how to parent your child. Why are you allowing your 12 year old to throw temper tantrums?
 

PQN

Member
I think mom has shown she is the parent. She forces the son to go to the exchange point, but DAD gives into the tantrum.

OP -- two therapy visits aren't enough to really see any progress. I would continue with the therapy -- maybe go twice a week if you can afford it. How old is the other child? How is he/she dealing with the visits?
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
I think mom has shown she is the parent. She forces the son to go to the exchange point, but DAD gives into the tantrum.

OP -- two therapy visits aren't enough to really see any progress. I would continue with the therapy -- maybe go twice a week if you can afford it. How old is the other child? How is he/she dealing with the visits?
I don't see that when she is not forcing her child to go with dad and allows her son to CELEBRATE and/or REJOICE when he gets his way and doesn't have to go with his father on a court-ordered visit.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Wondering here... what consequences does teh 12 yo suffer for this? Yes, Dad is giving in and allowing the child to see that his tantrum is getting him what he wants. But... does the weekend then go along as normal, with the child allowed normal privileges, etc? *Personally*, if this were my child , I may not be able to do anything about Dad's decision, but I *could* make it clear to the boy that his behavior is unacceptable. How? By enforcing consequences. Making it a NON-fun weekend. No friends, no computer, no tv, etc. In no way would I allow him to think that his behavior is rewarded - he needs to understand clearly that he is being punished.

And yes, that would mean that Christmas will NOT be celebrated in any way that makes him believe he "won". He will NOT get gifts on Sunday, There will NOT be a special meal, etc. It will be just another day.

It should never have been allowed to get to this point, but now that it has? Some truths need to be brought home to him. He does NOT get to manipulate the situation this way, and you will NOT tolerate his attempts to do so. Or you will be looking at some very long teen years.
 

PQN

Member
Wondering here... what consequences does teh 12 yo suffer for this? Yes, Dad is giving in and allowing the child to see that his tantrum is getting him what he wants. But... does the weekend then go along as normal, with the child allowed normal privileges, etc? *Personally*, if this were my child , I may not be able to do anything about Dad's decision, but I *could* make it clear to the boy that his behavior is unacceptable. How? By enforcing consequences. Making it a NON-fun weekend. No friends, no computer, no tv, etc. In no way would I allow him to think that his behavior is rewarded - he needs to understand clearly that he is being punished.

And yes, that would mean that Christmas will NOT be celebrated in any way that makes him believe he "won". He will NOT get gifts on Sunday, There will NOT be a special meal, etc. It will be just another day.

It should never have been allowed to get to this point, but now that it has? Some truths need to be brought home to him. He does NOT get to manipulate the situation this way, and you will NOT tolerate his attempts to do so. Or you will be looking at some very long teen years.

You make an excellent point. Home should be as boring as possible when he belongs somewhere else. I think jr could help mom scrub the house from top to bottom to get it ready for Christmas day. A few hours scrubbing toilets may give him a new perspective on it.

Of course, if he feels that dad's house is that awful, he may be willing to scrub all the toilets in the neighborhood to avoid it (that is why it is important to stay in therapy).

I do disagree with taking away Christmas from him. Two reasons (1) to go from not punishing him for refusing a visit to the nuclear option is extreme and unfair to a child (2) certain 'events' are so special that they should only be used as punishment in extreme situations (ie. the kid is committing felonies) and all other interventions have failed.
 
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stealth2

Under the Radar Member
I do disagree with taking away Christmas from him. Two reasons (1) to go from not punishing him for refusing a visit to the nuclear option is extreme and unfair to a child (2) certain 'events' are so special that they should only be used as punishment in extreme situations (ie. the kid is committing felonies) and all other interventions have failed.
Presumably, since the other child is with Dad, Mom had not planned on celebrating Christmas with the children this Sunday, but at another time. She should stick with that plan, and not make Sunday special. Since he chose to behave as he did to get out of going to Dad's - and the consequent holiday celebration there - he can wait until sister is home.
 

Artemis_ofthe_Hunt

Senior Member
Presumably, since the other child is with Dad, Mom had not planned on celebrating Christmas with the children this Sunday, but at another time. She should stick with that plan, and not make Sunday special. Since he chose to behave as he did to get out of going to Dad's - and the consequent holiday celebration there - he can wait until sister is home.
OP did say that the parenting time for dad ended on Christmas Eve at 9pm.... Honestly, I don't know that Mom could really do anything different. She's got Jr in therapy, she does force him to get into the car and by her own words, forcibly gets him out of the car... no mean feat if he's as big as my little guy is supposed to be...

Dad, OTOH, should be cattle prodded into being an adult and NOT letting Jr see those kind of reactions. That is the biggest backstep of all, IMHO
 

CJane

Senior Member
My issue would be that it even occurs to kiddo to throw a tantrum about visiting his other parent. Clearly there IS NO DANGER - the other/younger child went. Mom's not trying to rescue THAT child.

I don't blame MOM alone, but somewhere along the line, this kiddo got it into his head that being a jerk would be a successful tactic, and he's using it to his best advantage.
 

SESmama

Member
Seems like he learned it from Mom and Dad. Dad throws fit, Mom caves. Jr sees this and says "hey! Looks like this will work!" and ends up getting what he wants. Both Mom and Dad do get a taste of their own but I agree that child should not be allowed to determine the decision to go or not (barring abuse).
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
I think mom has shown she is the parent. She forces the son to go to the exchange point, but DAD gives into the tantrum.

OP -- two therapy visits aren't enough to really see any progress. I would continue with the therapy -- maybe go twice a week if you can afford it. How old is the other child? How is he/she dealing with the visits?
I agree. However, for the reasons I gave above, I would seriously consider a different therapist.

I don't see that when she is not forcing her child to go with dad and allows her son to CELEBRATE and/or REJOICE when he gets his way and doesn't have to go with his father on a court-ordered visit.
Yes, Mom is clearly encouraging the behavior. Not directly, but indirectly.

OP did say that the parenting time for dad ended on Christmas Eve at 9pm.... Honestly, I don't know that Mom could really do anything different. She's got Jr in therapy, she does force him to get into the car and by her own words, forcibly gets him out of the car... no mean feat if he's as big as my little guy is supposed to be...

Dad, OTOH, should be cattle prodded into being an adult and NOT letting Jr see those kind of reactions. That is the biggest backstep of all, IMHO
Yes, Dad is a jerk. I don't think there's any question about that.

My issue would be that it even occurs to kiddo to throw a tantrum about visiting his other parent. Clearly there IS NO DANGER - the other/younger child went. Mom's not trying to rescue THAT child.

I don't blame MOM alone, but somewhere along the line, this kiddo got it into his head that being a jerk would be a successful tactic, and he's using it to his best advantage.
Yep. Since the younger child is going, there's no danger. And a 12 year old is way too old to be having a tantrum. I don't blame Mom for this particular tantrum, but for bringing the child up in such a way that he's 12 and thinks that tantrums are a solution to life's problems. He's going to have a tough life.
 
I am finding most of the responses here to be .. confusing. The contributors on this site frequently point out differences in parenting choices, and discipline methods, and the other parent is not obligated to agree, do the same, carry a punishment forward the the other parent set.

So Mom does the right thing, and insists the child go to drop off point for exchange. Child throws a fit and Dad does not want to handle child and leaves him behind. That was dad's parenting choice, and likely a consequence of Dad's poor parenting decisions in the past. The OP has not indicated that the 12 yo throws tantrums with her, or they would work with her. In fact, she indicated that the dad's tantrums did not work with her. And Dad's tantrum is a good clue to where Jr is picking up that behavior.

It seems to me that Dad throws tantrums because they work for him (else he would not bother) - and Jr has learned this by watching him and is using the same power play that he sees Dad successfully use. (Smart kid!)

What can and should Mom do? Mom can make it clear to Jr that tantrums will never work with her. Notice that either Jr did not throw a tantrum with Mom as he went to drop off, or he did and it did not work. Mom is doing her job.

We are also forgetting a primary rule of child safety - we should never entrust our children (or any one else who needs care and supervision) in the care of somebody who does not want them. Doing so is a recipe for disaster.

It has been made clear to OP that she can't simply not drop her kids off and violate the court order. IN this case the child more affected by dad's behavior is not there - due to dad's choice. Hopefully the younger children rolls with the punches a bit better.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
I am finding most of the responses here to be .. confusing. The contributors on this site frequently point out differences in parenting choices, and discipline methods, and the other parent is not obligated to agree, do the same, carry a punishment forward the the other parent set.

So Mom does the right thing, and insists the child go to drop off point for exchange. Child throws a fit and Dad does not want to handle child and leaves him behind. That was dad's parenting choice, and likely a consequence of Dad's poor parenting decisions in the past. The OP has not indicated that the 12 yo throws tantrums with her, or they would work with her. In fact, she indicated that the dad's tantrums did not work with her. And Dad's tantrum is a good clue to where Jr is picking up that behavior.

It seems to me that Dad throws tantrums because they work for him (else he would not bother) - and Jr has learned this by watching him and is using the same power play that he sees Dad successfully use. (Smart kid!)

What can and should Mom do? Mom can make it clear to Jr that tantrums will never work with her. Notice that either Jr did not throw a tantrum with Mom as he went to drop off, or he did and it did not work. Mom is doing her job.

We are also forgetting a primary rule of child safety - we should never entrust our children (or any one else who needs care and supervision) in the care of somebody who does not want them. Doing so is a recipe for disaster.

It has been made clear to OP that she can't simply not drop her kids off and violate the court order. IN this case the child more affected by dad's behavior is not there - due to dad's choice. Hopefully the younger children rolls with the punches a bit better.
The problem is that junior is rejoicing at his tactics and mom has not said where she is doing anything to correct junior's little celebrations. That is the MAJOR problem. Junior is acting like a spoiled little brat and that behavior needs nipped in the bud by OP. Why OP? Because she is the one here. Dad should also be nipping it but OP is the one who is here.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
The problem is that junior is rejoicing at his tactics and mom has not said where she is doing anything to correct junior's little celebrations. That is the MAJOR problem. Junior is acting like a spoiled little brat and that behavior needs nipped in the bud by OP. Why OP? Because she is the one here. Dad should also be nipping it but OP is the one who is here.
What mom described:


After the first session the therapist told me to call this lawyer they were recommending. Go see the lawyer and have the lawyer stop visits. All that was based on was the child saying dad is mean, yells, screams, talks bad about me, makes him pick and choose between mom and dad, if he won't take sides, dad tells him then you don't love me, stuff like this. So again I went over with the therapist that the court has heard all of this, my child has to go to visits, I am looking for help in teaching him to cope with the visits and with dad being mean. I did call the lawyer, but can't get an appt until after the holiday's
can do a real number on a child. It can mess a child up very badly. It also can effect one child much more than another, depending on the child's emotional makeup.

You are upset about the child's "celebration" but if that is really what is going on, you would have to expect that ANY child would at least show relief at not having to go. Otherwise the child would not be having a normal, human, reaction.

I really believe that continuing the child's therapy to help him learn coping skills would be far more productive than punishment...assuming that mom is accurately describing what is going on.
 

it'sjustme

Junior Member
I'm going to try and answer everyone in one post.

I do punish him, I don't let him celebrate. But he does not care, he gets free time from dad, he takes his punishment, it's better then going to dads. The next time he goes his treatment by dad is far worse, he don't care though, he got free time from dad. It's all worth it to him, he will take the punishment. I don't allow him to throw temper tantrums, he does and I deal with them. I don't allow his million excuses why he can't go to dads either. I have had to talk to his school, cause he is in the office every other week before dads visit, sick. He's not sick, although he has at times made himself throw up. I make him stay at school, I talk him through it. If I were to go get him, then he has his way, then to him, I should call dad and tell him he is to sick to go.

I'm not trying to rescue him, I'm trying to teach him right from wrong, how to cope with what he is dealing with.

We have 2 children, a 10 year old girl and a 12 year old boy. She is not treated the same as he is. She does not have the issues he does with going, she is not treated the same. She's not the same child as the 12 year old.

She actually worries me more then the 12 year old, he actually knows what is what, she does not. Dad is perfect to her, everything dad tells is the truth. What it boils down to is I am the one she has the problems with, dad is the one that our son has the problems with. I can fix the problems with her and I, I can't fix the problems between our son and him.

Dad tells them everything, and everything is his distorted version. Dad has made them pick and choose sides, she picks his and our son picks me. I can't put on her all the things that went on during the marriage and the 8 years since.

Dad only has holiday time till Christmas eve at 9pm. So both children will be in my home Christmas day. Our daughter is getting christmas time with dad, she will get presents, our son is not. Dad screamed at him last night, that he won't get his presents now at all. So am I now suppose to ban him from Christmas at my home to, only allow our daughter to participate?

I've done every punishment, I have banned him from special occassions, I've taken everything away from him. It makes no difference, I can't top what he feels he is getting at dads home. He will take his punishment, he got a free time away from dads house. Dad can't even top his own punishment, as our son knows full well, it will be worse at dads next time he goes, but he got a free weekend off from dad. It's a reward to him, nothing I do has changed on how he sees that.

I can ban him from Christmas, not give him any gifts, he already is on chore duty, grounded, lost TV, game deck which really matters little to him anyways. He loves sitting in his room reading, that is his favorite, that is now gone, no books, no reading. That to him is the worst that I can do. But he will gladly give it up, for a free time from dads.

This has been what I have done for 8 years, these problems have been there from the start. He throws such a spell at drop offs, that the police have been called numerous times. Our drop off location is in a public place, court ordered. People call when then hear the mess that goes on, they see someone dragging a child out of a car. Police show up, make a report, it's on record that dad refuses to take him when he throws his spells. I use to be able to just pick him up, and then I would have to hold him down and strap him into dads car. He's much bigger then I am now.

Dad's filed numerous contempts against me for the child not going. I've not been found once to be in contempt. I take both children, I have receipts that I was there, I have a 3rd party witness in my car, the one child goes, the other does not.

Court ordered a public place and ordered that I take a 3rd party with me, it's for my safety. Court ordered that we must get receipts everytime from the public place, to prove we were there. Dad was not showing to his weeknight, and then said I was not showing. Then of course this crap with our son not going. I have numerous police reports from the pick up spot. Dad is ordered to not bring a 3rd party, that caused problems. We are both ordered to do all pick ups and drop offs, we can't use 3rd parties, thanks to dads 3rd party mess. I am ordered to not bring my other son to pick ups and drop offs, as dad will start with that child. Instead of punishing dad for it, I have been banned to take the child with me, it's for my sons safety.

We have a very detailed order, it of course didn't start out that way, but everything becomes a huge issue with dad. We can't deviate from the order, unless it is in writing, with both of us dating and signing it, then it must be mailed to FOC. We never deviate cause dad won't agree to anything anyways. He will deviate on his own, but then I won't do his deviation. The Judge made it clear if I do, I to will be found in contempt. We just recently have been ordered to do no communication by phone, as that leads to verbal attacks from dad to me, the reason of the phone communication is ignored by dad, and a verbal attack is done. We already have ordered to do no communicating at pick ups and drop offs, but dad does anyways, I ignore it and walk away, he usually runs over to me car and beats on my window and verbal attacks. Dad lost his joint legal on medical decisions, dad is ordered to not go to the children's school, although he still has joint legal decision making in that area. Dad's not allowed to change the children's physical appearance. It's one thing after another.

My son throws no other tantrums, he copes with everything else in his life.

I do really appreciate everyone's postings, more have posted while I typed this, I will read them to.
 
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