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Therapist called CPS, I need some advice

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Artemis_ofthe_Hunt

Senior Member
Dad's filed numerous contempts against me for the child not going. I've not been found once to be in contempt. I take both children, I have receipts that I was there, I have a 3rd party witness in my car, the one child goes, the other does not.

Court ordered a public place and ordered that I take a 3rd party with me, it's for my safety. Court ordered that we must get receipts everytime from the public place, to prove we were there. Dad was not showing to his weeknight, and then said I was not showing. Then of course this crap with our son not going. I have numerous police reports from the pick up spot. Dad is ordered to not bring a 3rd party, that caused problems. We are both ordered to do all pick ups and drop offs, we can't use 3rd parties, thanks to dads 3rd party mess.

I am ordered to not bring my other son to pick ups and drop offs, as dad will start with that child. Instead of punishing dad for it, I have been banned to take the child with me, it's for my sons safety.
We have a very detailed order, it of course didn't start out that way, but everything becomes a huge issue with dad. We can't deviate from the order, unless it is in writing, with both of us dating and signing it, then it must be mailed to FOC. We never deviate cause dad won't agree to anything anyways. He will deviate on his own, but then I won't do his deviation. The Judge made it clear if I do, I to will be found in contempt. .
Just so I'm clear... you have another child other than these two, right?
 


st-kitts

Member
Some thoughts about the counseling here...

While OP has the power to go in and indicate to the therapist what she believes the problem is and what she wants treated, she isn't actually in a position to diagnoses the problem nor to dictate the treatment. If the counselor/therapist believes the visits harm the child and falls under a mandatory reporting situation then he/she is obligated to report it.

It isn't that much different that a person that goes to a doctor and asks to be treated for a condition they believe they have. If the patient thinks they have acid reflux but the doctor diagnoses heart disease, the doctor wouldn't prescribe antacids... If the doctor makes a different diagnosis then the patient expects, the doctor is going to treat based on their expertise and not the patient's desires. Switching doctors because you dislike the diagnosis isn't always wise.

I agree with those posters that indicated the therapist would tell a child that they were reporting the situation, since the child is old enough to understand the concept of the report, did so to maintain the trust required for counseling to be effective.


Sidebar - I find there is an interesting divergence on the concept of best interest of the child between the court system and the mental health professions. I suppose one of the main reasons is therapists generally don't give two hoots about the parent's constitutional right to be a parent whereas the courts do care. Future harm considerations are within the realm of a counselor's concerns where courts are evidence based and focus on what can be proven.

I was really surprised (and learned quite a bit) when I started reading this forum with regards to what would be reasons to limit visitation by a parent. Many reasons a therapist believes are reasons visitation should be limited are not reasons a court will seriously consider if I take at face value many of the posts here.

OP - You have a tough situation. Good luck.
 
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it'sjustme

Junior Member
While OP has the power to go in and indicate to the therapist what she believes the problem is and what she wants treated, she isn't actually in a position to diagnoses the problem nor to dictate the treatment. If the counselor/therapist believes the visits harm the child and falls under a mandatory reporting situation then he/she is obligated to report it.

It isn't that much different that a person that goes to a doctor and asks to be treated for a condition they believe they have. If the patient thinks they have acid reflux but the doctor diagnoses heart disease, the doctor wouldn't prescibe antacids... If the doctor makes a different diagnosis then the patient expects, the doctor is going to treat based on their expertise and not the patient's desires. Switching doctors because you dislike the diagnosis isn't always wise.

I agree with those posters that indicated the therapist would tell a child that they were reporting the situation, since the child is old enough to understand the concept of the report, did so to maintain the trust required for counseling to be effective.


Sidebar - I find there is an interesting divergance on the concept of best interest of the child between the court system and the mental health professions. I suppose one of the main reasons is therapists generally don't give two hoots about the parent's constitutional right to be a parent whereas the courts do care. Future harm considerations are within the realm of a counselor's concerns where courts are evidence based and focus on what can be proven.

I was really surprised (and learned quite a bit) when I started reading this forum with regards to what would be reasons to limit visitation by a parent. Many reasons a therapist believes are reasons visitation should be limited are not reasons a court will seriously consider if I take at face value many of the posts here.

OP - You have a tough situation. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

Your sidebar is what I am now dealing with. I was forewarned of this, but without documentation through a professional, there is nowhere else for me to go with this in court. It still threw me with how far off this therapist is concerning the courts. I have a big feeling that I would see the same if I do switch therapists.

I'm also concerned now that this therapist called CPS, if I change the therapist, it can be looked at by the therapist, CPS or the court that I am trying to block things here.

So I guess I travel the same roads from the past, CPS, maybe court. Continue with the therapy, and maybe some focus will be on teaching him to cope, specially if nothing gets done through CPS or the courts.

I will talk to the therapist again and to the person in charge, and see if some of the focus can be on teaching him to cope. If down the road, this therapist does not do that, then I will switch.

Maybe my son needs that dose of reality, that the law sees things different and that will be what gets him to see he needs to cope with this. He now thinks this therapist is going to stop these visits for him, he's his god right now.

Thanks everyone for talking me through this.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Your child needs to realize that the court ORDER is GOD to him now and HE needs to follow THAT. By not following that, YOU have issues. Maybe you need to introduce him to that GOD. The one that the COURT actually put into place. If he thinks the therapist is GOD, you need to educate him that the THERAPIST has no power. The COURTS control at this instance. Your son is being a spoiled brat quite frankly. Time to reign him in. Because if he finds out HE can control his visits with dad, he will also at some point believe he can control YOU.

That is a monster waiting to happen.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Your child needs to realize that the court ORDER is GOD to him now and HE needs to follow THAT. By not following that, YOU have issues. Maybe you need to introduce him to that GOD. The one that the COURT actually put into place. If he thinks the therapist is GOD, you need to educate him that the THERAPIST has no power. The COURTS control at this instance. Your son is being a spoiled brat quite frankly. Time to reign him in. Because if he finds out HE can control his visits with dad, he will also at some point believe he can control YOU.

That is a monster waiting to happen.
Whoa...are you really suggesting that? Are you really suggesting that not only that mom destroyed any benefit of therapy for the child by doing that, but also suggesting that the testimony of a therapist is worthless??:confused:
 

CJane

Senior Member
Your child needs to realize that the court ORDER is GOD to him now and HE needs to follow THAT. By not following that, YOU have issues. Maybe you need to introduce him to that GOD. The one that the COURT actually put into place. If he thinks the therapist is GOD, you need to educate him that the THERAPIST has no power. The COURTS control at this instance. Your son is being a spoiled brat quite frankly. Time to reign him in. Because if he finds out HE can control his visits with dad, he will also at some point believe he can control YOU.

That is a monster waiting to happen.
Huh. I thought standard advice was that kids shouldn't know about the court order, nor should they be involved in the logistics of applying it.

Learn new things every day.

OP -- what is most troubling to me about your situation isn't that your child is throwing tantrums or that he's refusing to go with Dad. What's most troubling to me, is that he's failing to recognize the consequences.

You say he 'doesn't care' if Dad treats him EVEN MORE badly the next time. He 'doesn't care' if he's punished by you for his refusal to go. He 'doesn't care' about any of the long term fall-out of his behavior, only that he gets his (perceived) needs met in the NOW.

That - to me - indicates a MUCH larger problem than one that will be solved by 'learning coping skills'. It's flat out sociopathic behavior - and I'm willing to bet that it's not isolated to this one particular scenario.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Huh. I thought standard advice was that kids shouldn't know about the court order, nor should they be involved in the logistics of applying it.

Learn new things every day.

OP -- what is most troubling to me about your situation isn't that your child is throwing tantrums or that he's refusing to go with Dad. What's most troubling to me, is that he's failing to recognize the consequences.

You say he 'doesn't care' if Dad treats him EVEN MORE badly the next time. He 'doesn't care' if he's punished by you for his refusal to go. He 'doesn't care' about any of the long term fall-out of his behavior, only that he gets his (perceived) needs met in the NOW.

That - to me - indicates a MUCH larger problem than one that will be solved by 'learning coping skills'. It's flat out sociopathic behavior - and I'm willing to bet that it's not isolated to this one particular scenario.
That is a very interesting take on the situation...and quite possibly true. However, its also possible that the child is so stressed by the situation that the temporary relief is more predominant in his mind than long term consequences.

Bottom line though is that it simply underscores the need for therapy/counseling.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
This has been what I have done for 8 years, these problems have been there from the start. He throws such a spell at drop offs, that the police have been called numerous times. Our drop off location is in a public place, court ordered. People call when then hear the mess that goes on, they see someone dragging a child out of a car. Police show up, make a report, it's on record that dad refuses to take him when he throws his spells. I use to be able to just pick him up, and then I would have to hold him down and strap him into dads car. He's much bigger then I am now.
Wait... This has been going on for EIGHT years and you have only NOW taken him to therapy?
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Do you think your story is unique? That none of us have experienced it? It's not. And we have. I certainly have. And no a once have either of mine even thought that they were allowed to refuse to go to their Dad's when it was his time with them. Not.A.Single.Time. In over 13 years. I have never had to drag them in to or out of the car, plane, train. Not going to Dad's was simply never an option.

Had one of my children pulled what yours has? We'd have been in counseling well before a year had passed. Eight years? Really is unconscionable. If your son really has been abused all these years? You are just as responsible. If not? You share the blame for having a spoiled young man. Something you will dearly regret. Because, I am sorry, I do not believe that you have been holding him responsible for the past eight years for this choice.
 

it'sjustme

Junior Member
It is all just isolated to this one area. He's never in trouble, not at home or at school, he's a straight A student. My son's flat out "he does not care" attitude is only about going to dads. Only time he is in trouble at home, is when he refuses to go to dads or when he starts days leading up to it, faking sick, coming up with excuses. He will say, hey mom, can't we tell dad I have to much homework, can't we tell dad I have an activity.

I don't let him do any of his excuses, I make him go, I make him get out of the car. I punish him when he throws fits, his time at my home is spent being punished if he does not go to dads. I've talked to him until I am blue in the face, I'm so sick of this same issue, but I keep talking, keep punishing, keep doing the right things.

Both of my kids know about court orders, and court, dad has told them. Dad distorts it all though. They both thought that when then turn 12 they get to decide who they live with. Dad told them that, dad told them to pick him, poor him, he has no one, their mom destroyed his family, took them from him. My daughter said mom, by the time I turn 12, I will have lived with you for 12 years, dad has no one, so it's only fair I go live with him. My son, he turned it around, since he can choose to live with dad, then he can choose to live with me, that's his choice and he gets to also choose not to go. Dad would bring this up all the time, force them on the spot to choose, if they would not choose or not answer, they were punished, they were called babies, they don't love dad then, then the poor dad story, how I destroyed his family, took everything from him.

When I told them they don't get to choose until they are 18, I was the liar. My son did a search on it at his friends house, he read my counties entire Friend of the Court Handbook.

I can't begin to explain what they go through, constantly, he badgers them, he bullies them, he makes them pick and choose, he has extreme hatred towards me, my other son, my parents, he's very vocal to our kids about it.

I don't think he feels he is controlling his visits with dad. He knows the next one will be worse, he fears that to, but it's a relief not to go for one visit. I believe he very much feels that dad controls his visits, that dad controls him. Will this eventually have him trying to control things, it very might well. Could he be a monster in the making, he sure could be. I worry what he might next do, to not go to a visit, I worry about everything everyone mentioned in these posts. It's why I am seeking help for him.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
I'm not passing judgment on what you have or haven't been doing in the past.

But one thing seems to be clear - whatever you're doing in terms of punishment isn't working. Have you googled "garden of eden parenting" (or similar terms)?

(I did like St Kitt's post, btw. It might not help the OP in this particular scenario, but it was a very astute observation)
 

it'sjustme

Junior Member
Do you think your story is unique? That none of us have experienced it? It's not. And we have. I certainly have. And no a once have either of mine even thought that they were allowed to refuse to go to their Dad's when it was his time with them. Not.A.Single.Time. In over 13 years. I have never had to drag them in to or out of the car, plane, train. Not going to Dad's was simply never an option.

Had one of my children pulled what yours has? We'd have been in counseling well before a year had passed. Eight years? Really is unconscionable. If your son really has been abused all these years? You are just as responsible. If not? You share the blame for having a spoiled young man. Something you will dearly regret. Because, I am sorry, I do not believe that you have been holding him responsible for the past eight years for this choice.
Thanks for the help on my little goof.

We were in therapy at the beginning, through a domestic violence center. Dad had joint legal, I didn't jointly make that decision to put them in therapy with dad.

The Judge ordered me to stop the therapy, didn't feel the kids were domestic violence, just me, dad didn't agree to have them in the therapy.

I have tried several times to get therapy ordered, dad won't agree to have them in therapy. All I have had is what I say they tell me, it's verbal and mental abuse, the Judge does not want to hear that. My kids have no troubles in school, not in trouble with the law, where is the problem? Just what I have to say. I tried to get a GAL assigned. The Judge believes that the abuse is at me only. I have not been able to prove anything.

Dad has done some things medically and the Judge just recently gave me sole medical decision making. So I don't need dads agreement now.
 
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