Vacation out of state without NCP

[c.simon]

Hi, I'm in Wisconsin and had a question about vacations.

My ex and I had recently discussed his mother taking our 4 year old daughter out of state for a week without him. I thought this was a bad idea because she would be more than 8 hours away without a parent and his mother would be visiting his sister and her new baby. We agreed on a long weekend with his mother who only lives an hour away instead.

Now, I've informed him of the dates I want Ella for vacation and he's upset over them. He's now insisting that he take his week of vacation between Christmas and New Year and that our daughter go with his mother to Michigan without him during that week.

Our daughter is newly diagnosed with asthma and is fairly clingy for a 4 year old. She's always been a mama's girl and I'm worried about her being so far away for so long. His mother is excellent with Ella but the idea of her being more than 8 hours away without a parent seems too extreme for me.

 

[Ronin]

Unless the court order states otherwise, it is not your call to dictate how the NCP manages the child during his periods of possession. Just as it would not be his call to dictate whether or not you could allow the child to travel with your mother.

 

[c.simon]

We do have a first right of refusal in place. Where, if he is going to be away from Ella for more than 8 hours, he has to offer me the opportunity to be with her and vice versa.

 

[LdiJ]

We do have a first right of refusal in place. Where, if he is going to be away from Ella for more than 8 hours, he has to offer me the opportunity to be with her and vice versa.

An ROFR generally does not apply to extended family visitation. You would have a hard time making that stick in court. However, I also think that grandma is completely out of line for insisting on taking the child 8 hours away for a week a 4 years old. Therefore I would be trying to stop that as well.

What do your court orders state about the Christmas holiday period? Holiday parenting time would superceed any visitation...so dad basically cannot schedule a vacation during a holiday period unless its during his portion of the holiday period.

 

[Ronin]

I do not believe grandma is out of line. The father is the one making the call on this. If, as LdiJ pointed out, the ROFR does not apply to extended family, the father will most likely have the last word on this matter.

If the father is entitled to exercise his visitation the week after Christmas this year, there does not appear to be much you can do, short of going back to court to address this matter.

 

[mommyof4]

An ROFR generally does not apply to extended family visitation. You would have a hard time making that stick in court. However, I also think that grandma is completely out of line for insisting on taking the child 8 hours away for a week a 4 years old. Therefore I would be trying to stop that as well.

What do your court orders state about the Christmas holiday period? Holiday parenting time would superceed any visitation...so dad basically cannot schedule a vacation during a holiday period unless its during his portion of the holiday period.

I don't think it's out of line at all. I have sent each and everyone of my children, both together and seperately, to stay with their grandparents for 3+ weeks ever since they were tiny (I'm talking 18 months old). During those times, they may just hang out at home or they may travel. It's a WONDERFUL experience for them, us (my husband and me), and the GPs.

I spent weeks on end with my GPs from the time I was a year old. I cherish those memories. By the time I was in junior high, I was spending the entire summer with my mom's parents and traveling around the country with them. I loved it.

The added benefit for OP? Little Girl would start to learn to let go just a bit and not be so clingy. That's a GOOD thing. She did, after all, say that GM is wonderful with Little Girl.

 

[TheGeekess]

I'm with Ronin. My parents take The Child to NC for a family reunion every year and have done so without me going for the last 9 years (The Child is now 12). These trips typically last 5-7 days.

 

[c.simon]

That's just a difference in parenting style, I would never let my infant be so far away from me for so long. Whether or not it would be "good" for my daughter isn't an issue. She's newly diagnosed with a chronic condition and I do not want her that far away.

Christmas Eve and Christmas morning are with me this year as well as New Years Eve and New Years day. There's nothing in our ROFR about it not including vacation. It's not so much the vacation that's bothering me, it's the location. I've told him that it's fine as long as exMIL stays home, but 8 hours away is unreasonable.

If I wanted to block Ella from leaving the state how would I go about that?

 

[Zephyr]

That's just a difference in parenting style, I would never let my infant be so far away from me for so long. Whether or not it would be "good" for my daughter isn't an issue. She's newly diagnosed with a chronic condition and I do not want her that far away.

Christmas Eve and Christmas morning are with me this year as well as New Years Eve and New Years day. There's nothing in our ROFR about it not including vacation. It's not so much the vacation that's bothering me, it's the location. I've told him that it's fine as long as exMIL stays home, but 8 hours away is unreasonable.

If I wanted to block Ella from leaving the state how would I go about that?

You can't really, not without showing she's in some sort of imminent danger

 

[gr8rn]

His mother is excellent with Ella .

This should clinch it for you. If something should come up you are both a phone call away. Let her go.

 

[c.simon]

This should clinch it for you. If something should come up you are both a phone call away. Let her go.

A phone call would be her house that's an hour away. Michigan is a flight or an over 8 hour car ride away.

I'm just going to talk to exMIL, we've remained friendly, maybe she'll see my side.

 

[LdiJ]

A phone call would be her house that's an hour away. Michigan is a flight or an over 8 hour car ride away.

I'm just going to talk to exMIL, we've remained friendly, maybe she'll see my side.

That is probably a good idea. If she knows that you don't want her to do that, but would prefer to arrange some time for her when she would be home, she might understand that and back you up.

However, dad does get to do with his time what he wants to do. That is the legal and correct answer.

Much of the other responses that you received were personal opinion. I absolutely adore my mother and I would not have allowed her to take my toddler 8 hours away, without me. My daughter traveled with her a few times when she was older than that, but certainly not as a toddler. Therefore now you have my personal opinion as well.

 

[stealth2]

That's just a difference in parenting style, I would never let my infant be so far away from me for so long. Whether or not it would be "good" for my daughter isn't an issue. She's newly diagnosed with a chronic condition and I do not want her that far away.

However, she also has another parent who has the right to make the decision. What you want doesn't necessarily come into play - on his time.

Christmas Eve and Christmas morning are with me this year as well as New Years Eve and New Years day. There's nothing in our ROFR about it not including vacation. It's not so much the vacation that's bothering me, it's the location. I've told him that it's fine as long as exMIL stays home, but 8 hours away is unreasonable.

As long as it doesn't interfere with your time, it really isn't your decision to make.

If I wanted to block Ella from leaving the state how would I go about that?

You could petition the court, but I suspect you'll have a hard time getting the court to back you up.

As for personal opinion... I left both of mine at 1 1/2 and 3 with my parents when the opportunity to go to Russia came up. I called them daily, they all had a great time, and it helped build a great bond between the four of them. But then... I'm considering sending my younger one to the far reaches of the earth next summer... alone. But she's not 1 1/2 anymore.

 

[DaddyAdvocate]

How did this...

My ex and I had recently discussed his mother taking our 4 year old daughter out of state for a week without him...

...become this?

That's just a difference in parenting style, I would never let my infant be so far away from me for so long...

What's next, Grandma is a chain smoker who will have 27 long haired cats in the 30 year old moldy unheated box truck for the 8 hour ride?

It's not about your wants when the child is with Dad. Particularly during vacation times. I could argue that the ROFR doesn't apply to vacations. And if it does, you'll never send your child out of state to camp, or to stay with your parents overnight? Because that'll be Dad's option too...

 

[Ohiogal]

That is probably a good idea. If she knows that you don't want her to do that, but would prefer to arrange some time for her when she would be home, she might understand that and back you up.

However, dad does get to do with his time what he wants to do. That is the legal and correct answer.

Much of the other responses that you received were personal opinion. I absolutely adore my mother and I would not have allowed her to take my toddler 8 hours away, without me. My daughter traveled with her a few times when she was older than that, but certainly not as a toddler. Therefore now you have my personal opinion as well.

Your response prior to this was ALSO personal opinion:

However, I also think that grandma is completely out of line for insisting on taking the child 8 hours away for a week a 4 years old. Therefore I would be trying to stop that as well.

No one else was talking about grandma and whether she was in line or not until you made your comment. YOUR personal opinion started the other responses.