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Verbal Agreement

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sideblinded

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina. Buncombe County

I am Dad. The mom and I have been separated 4 1/2 years, divorced three years. Joint custody, equal time between households.

Our actual divorce paperwork states "from Sunday 6pm to Sunday 6pm". We have never followed this time. We have for the past four years exchanged on Thursday at 3 per our verbal agreement. (I have an extensive amount of emails to back this up)

I am just back from the regularly scheduled exchange, without my son. The mom sent me an email at 2:39 saying that she is keeping him and that 'we' are reverting to our written agreement. (which is Sunday to Sunday)

This is not that big of a deal out of context.

A little context.
The mom and I have for the most part been able to have a pretty decent relationship all in all. A month and a half ago, we had an all day conversation for the first time ever. It was light and trivial, but nice and encouraging as far as being able to speak to one another as people. The next day, I invited her over for dinner with this family. (as I've done many times) But this time she accepted, she came over, she brought a pie. The next day I went out of town for a few weeks. (first time ever)

Shortly before my return, I learn that the mom came and got the boy from the 'stepmom' and family, only to take him to her house and leave him alone while she went to work for 4 hours at a time. He is 8, and not a super mature 8 year old.

When I got back from my trip, I mentioned to her that this frustrated me. She didn't even respond.

The next evening, I get a call from DSS. They came out, interviewed this family, (myself, stepmom, and two stepsisters) the agent ended the interview with a phone call to his superiors recommending dismissal. There was one more follow up visit that lasted 10 minutes and was ended with everything was in order.

Mom is calling DSS, making fake claims about things, out of the blue and having lied to DSS about leaving the boy home alone.

Just after this DSS scare was the first time that she threatened to just keep the boy because it was inconvenient for her to make the scheduled exchange time. At that point she mentioned that the schedule on the books was Sunday to Sunday and that she could just keep him until Sunday. I did end up getting him that night, but very late, around 10pm. After that I told her that I would like to file a statement with the courts outlining our current agreement so it was on the books. She refused to even discuss it. She did not say no, or yes, just that she could not handle talking about it.

This past week the boy has been at mom's. I received an email last night from mom explaining that since the weekend, the boy has had pneumonia, the doctor said chest x ray and antibiotics, the mom refused the antibiotics and went to another alternative practitioner and got teas for him. All of this happened without my knowledge. In her email (which she is CC'ing to DSS) she said that she was taking him to the doctor today at 12:15. I informed her that I would be there and I was. After the appointment I asked her if I could go ahead and head to my home with the boy.(a little earlier than 3) She said mmmm, why don't you come over and we'll talk. I explained that there was no way that I was going to speak with her with the boy present, and/or without a witness and a goal. She then got the boy into her car and said that she was calling the police.

Our agreed upon exchange time came and she sent me an email saying that she is reverting to our written agreement, which we have never followed.

So, i think that my first step is to petition the court to handle our case in Buncombe county North Carolina instead of Tennessee where we were divorced.
What should my next move be? I desire to have our agreed upon exchange date and time to be enforceable. She changes it at her whim and convenience.

I checked online and it seems that NC has no law on the books about how young is too young for a child to be left home alone.

What about not informing the other parent of health issues and decisions? Any recourse there? I would not do this to her, if the boy was sick while with me and there was a doctor recommendation I would allow her to be in on the decision. It seems like that should be the law. What about her just deciding to now go with the files agreement while that has never been followed? What do I do?

Thanks
 


Silverplum

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina. Buncombe County

I am Dad. The mom and I have been separated 4 1/2 years, divorced three years. Joint custody, equal time between households.

Our actual divorce paperwork states "from Sunday 6pm to Sunday 6pm". We have never followed this time. We have for the past four years exchanged on Thursday at 3 per our verbal agreement. (I have an extensive amount of emails to back this up)

I am just back from the regularly scheduled exchange, without my son. The mom sent me an email at 2:39 saying that she is keeping him and that 'we' are reverting to our written agreement. (which is Sunday to Sunday)

This is not that big of a deal out of context.

A little context.
The mom and I have for the most part been able to have a pretty decent relationship all in all. A month and a half ago, we had an all day conversation for the first time ever. It was light and trivial, but nice and encouraging as far as being able to speak to one another as people. The next day, I invited her over for dinner with this family. (as I've done many times) But this time she accepted, she came over, she brought a pie. The next day I went out of town for a few weeks. (first time ever)

Shortly before my return, I learn that the mom came and got the boy from the 'stepmom' and family, only to take him to her house and leave him alone while she went to work for 4 hours at a time. He is 8, and not a super mature 8 year old.

When I got back from my trip, I mentioned to her that this frustrated me. She didn't even respond.

The next evening, I get a call from DSS. They came out, interviewed this family, (myself, stepmom, and two stepsisters) the agent ended the interview with a phone call to his superiors recommending dismissal. There was one more follow up visit that lasted 10 minutes and was ended with everything was in order.

Mom is calling DSS, making fake claims about things, out of the blue and having lied to DSS about leaving the boy home alone.

Just after this DSS scare was the first time that she threatened to just keep the boy because it was inconvenient for her to make the scheduled exchange time. At that point she mentioned that the schedule on the books was Sunday to Sunday and that she could just keep him until Sunday. I did end up getting him that night, but very late, around 10pm. After that I told her that I would like to file a statement with the courts outlining our current agreement so it was on the books. She refused to even discuss it. She did not say no, or yes, just that she could not handle talking about it.

This past week the boy has been at mom's. I received an email last night from mom explaining that since the weekend, the boy has had pneumonia, the doctor said chest x ray and antibiotics, the mom refused the antibiotics and went to another alternative practitioner and got teas for him. All of this happened without my knowledge. In her email (which she is CC'ing to DSS) she said that she was taking him to the doctor today at 12:15. I informed her that I would be there and I was. After the appointment I asked her if I could go ahead and head to my home with the boy.(a little earlier than 3) She said mmmm, why don't you come over and we'll talk. I explained that there was no way that I was going to speak with her with the boy present, and/or without a witness and a goal. She then got the boy into her car and said that she was calling the police.

Our agreed upon exchange time came and she sent me an email saying that she is reverting to our written agreement, which we have never followed.

So, i think that my first step is to petition the court to handle our case in Buncombe county North Carolina instead of Tennessee where we were divorced.
What should my next move be? I desire to have our agreed upon exchange date and time to be enforceable. She changes it at her whim and convenience.

I checked online and it seems that NC has no law on the books about how young is too young for a child to be left home alone.

What about not informing the other parent of health issues and decisions? Any recourse there? I would not do this to her, if the boy was sick while with me and there was a doctor recommendation I would allow her to be in on the decision. It seems like that should be the law. What about her just deciding to now go with the files agreement while that has never been followed? What do I do?

Thanks
Because you put Stepmom in quotation marks, I figure she's your live-in gf and, apparently, her children.

That's not a "stepmom," and those are not "stepsisters." Pet peeve. Words have meanings.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina. Buncombe County

I am Dad. The mom and I have been separated 4 1/2 years, divorced three years. Joint custody, equal time between households.

Our actual divorce paperwork states "from Sunday 6pm to Sunday 6pm". We have never followed this time. We have for the past four years exchanged on Thursday at 3 per our verbal agreement. (I have an extensive amount of emails to back this up)

I am just back from the regularly scheduled exchange, without my son. The mom sent me an email at 2:39 saying that she is keeping him and that 'we' are reverting to our written agreement. (which is Sunday to Sunday)

This is not that big of a deal out of context.

A little context.
The mom and I have for the most part been able to have a pretty decent relationship all in all. A month and a half ago, we had an all day conversation for the first time ever. It was light and trivial, but nice and encouraging as far as being able to speak to one another as people. The next day, I invited her over for dinner with this family. (as I've done many times) But this time she accepted, she came over, she brought a pie. The next day I went out of town for a few weeks. (first time ever)

Shortly before my return, I learn that the mom came and got the boy from the 'stepmom' and family, only to take him to her house and leave him alone while she went to work for 4 hours at a time. He is 8, and not a super mature 8 year old.

When I got back from my trip, I mentioned to her that this frustrated me. She didn't even respond.
If you were going to be out of town for a few weeks the appropriate thing would have been for the child to be with his mother during that time, not your live in girlfriend.

The next evening, I get a call from DSS. They came out, interviewed this family, (myself, stepmom, and two stepsisters) the agent ended the interview with a phone call to his superiors recommending dismissal. There was one more follow up visit that lasted 10 minutes and was ended with everything was in order.

Mom is calling DSS, making fake claims about things, out of the blue and having lied to DSS about leaving the boy home alone.
Are you sure that your girlfriend did not call DSS first? Otherwise, why would the issue of mom having left him at home alone even come up with them?

Just after this DSS scare was the first time that she threatened to just keep the boy because it was inconvenient for her to make the scheduled exchange time. At that point she mentioned that the schedule on the books was Sunday to Sunday and that she could just keep him until Sunday. I did end up getting him that night, but very late, around 10pm. After that I told her that I would like to file a statement with the courts outlining our current agreement so it was on the books. She refused to even discuss it. She did not say no, or yes, just that she could not handle talking about it.

This past week the boy has been at mom's. I received an email last night from mom explaining that since the weekend, the boy has had pneumonia, the doctor said chest x ray and antibiotics, the mom refused the antibiotics and went to another alternative practitioner and got teas for him. All of this happened without my knowledge. In her email (which she is CC'ing to DSS) she said that she was taking him to the doctor today at 12:15. I informed her that I would be there and I was. After the appointment I asked her if I could go ahead and head to my home with the boy.(a little earlier than 3) She said mmmm, why don't you come over and we'll talk. I explained that there was no way that I was going to speak with her with the boy present, and/or without a witness and a goal. She then got the boy into her car and said that she was calling the police.

Our agreed upon exchange time came and she sent me an email saying that she is reverting to our written agreement, which we have never followed.

So, i think that my first step is to petition the court to handle our case in Buncombe county North Carolina instead of Tennessee where we were divorced.
What should my next move be? I desire to have our agreed upon exchange date and time to be enforceable. She changes it at her whim and convenience.

I checked online and it seems that NC has no law on the books about how young is too young for a child to be left home alone.

What about not informing the other parent of health issues and decisions? Any recourse there? I would not do this to her, if the boy was sick while with me and there was a doctor recommendation I would allow her to be in on the decision. It seems like that should be the law. What about her just deciding to now go with the files agreement while that has never been followed? What do I do?

Thanks
I agree that mom should not be making medical decisions without your input. Particularly the decision to give a child with pneumonia teas instead of antibiotics, and if you want to take mom to court for contempt over that, or even file an emergency motion to get mom ordered to get the child antibiotics, that would be your choice and option.

However, as far as the week to week schedule is concerned, why is it such a big deal to have it Thursday to Thursday instead of Sunday to Sunday? In the overall scheme of things, what difference does that make?
 

commentator

Senior Member
You spent a whole day talking to baby's mother. Then invited her over for dinner. Are you sure she understood you guys weren't on your way to getting back together or something? It sounds like something happened that got her feelings severely hurt, caused her to retaliate against you for something that happened or some impression she got during that little renewal of old acquaintances?
 

sideblinded

Junior Member
thank you everyone for your responses and help.

Just got back from the doctor, the boys oxygen levels did not improve since yesterday so the doctor said that she was no longer willing to go without an x-ray. I agreed, mom agreed. We went to get the x-ray, the x-ray says it's viral pneumonia so antibiotics won't do any good. He just needs rest and good food.

it's in our divorce agreement that mom and dad must notify the other parent within 24 hours of any medical emergency. i am documenting everything in a word doc. I have every email ever, so I have documentation of the real story, I just need to put it together. I think the next step will be a mediation. It will be nice to know that the exchange day and time will be enforceable and she will no longer be able to play games like not being able to make drop off happen today, so she'll just keep him.

Yeah, I wonder about what is really going on with mom, (old feelings, jealousy, some mixture of, something) the mom had her new boyfriend move in a couple of months back, I was REALLY hoping that would settle things down with the mom but it seems to be having the opposite effect. (if that's even what's going on or at all related) When she came over, she knew that it would be 'stepmom', 'stepsisters', the boy, the family and neighbors and friends. I think she knows there's no chance for anything like that between us, there may be jealousy however.

yes silverplum, I put 'stepmom' in quotes because legally, on paper, (and I understand that is what this site is about) she is my "live-in girlfriend", but in actuality she is the best mother I have ever met, real or imagined. 'stepmom' is the archetype 'Mother' and you see the effects of that on 'stepsisters', and boy, and the children she interacts with daily in her waldorf classroom. I forget that 'stepmom' and I are not married, I feel more married to her than I have ever felt. I should have already married 'stepmom' and made an honest woman of her. Honestly the pain of mom has made me hesitant to put things in file cabinets. I'm working on it.
meant no offense to words or people with the 'stepmom' thing.

again, thank y'all for your help and this site.
 
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commentator

Senior Member
Quote: "'stepmom' is the archetype 'Mother' and you see the effects of that on 'stepsisters', and boy, and the children she interacts with daily in her waldorf classroom. I forget that 'stepmom' and I are not married, I feel more married to her than I have ever felt. I should have already married 'stepmom' and made an honest woman of her"

So do it, you turkey. You are dangling the old mom out there, making her feel like there may be hope for getting back together with you and giving your child a whole ideal family again. And if you really, really in your heart believe that marrying your girlfriend would "make an honest woman of her" you need to do it, and get this whole business of co-parenting back on an honest, aboveboard position.

I suspect that once the whole jealousy, resentment, maybe-could-rekindle thing is over, your former wife will be happier and ready to move on, and you can get this whole parenting thing going in a more reasonable, predictable pattern. Do not ever tell her how much better a mom your new girlfriend is, unless you want to dump a huge bucket of excrement upon your own head. Love your child enough to be very good to your child's mother. Remember, you both love your child.
 
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CJane

Senior Member
You "forget you're not married"? If that's not one of the weirdest things I've read...

And... harm came to the boy with Mom refusing antibiotics. And no harm will come to the boy with the exchange happening on the ordered Sundays instead of Thursdays.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
In addition.... How do you think your g/f feels about your invitations to your ex-wife? You know, the woman you actually DID make "honest" by marrying? I'm sure she tells you she's fine with it, but I'd bet dollars to donuts she's being gracious.

Really, stop dangling carrots in front of them both - parent civilly with kiddo's Mom and marry the new girl (I'm sure SHE has not "forgotten [you] are not married").
 

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