visitation contempt

[DEH313]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IN

What I do not understand is why a parent cannot be held in contempt for not picking up their children for visitation but a parent can be held in contempt for not allowing visitation. It's the exact same order. The Judge has ordered specific times for visitation, both parties should have to abide or be held in contempt.

It is not fair to the other parent or the children to not pick them up when you are supposed to and I do not think it is any more damaging for the kids to be kept from one parent than to have one parent just not show up. The custodial parent should have rights and the priviledge to be able to count on this visitation time and make plans for their own life but can be left sitting, waiting and wondering while the other parent can opt to show up or not. Not fair.

 

[TheGeekess]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IN

What I do not understand is why a parent cannot be held in contempt for not picking up their children for visitation but a parent can be held in contempt for not allowing visitation. It's the exact same order. The Judge has ordered specific times for visitation, both parties should have to abide or be held in contempt.

It is not fair to the other parent or the children to not pick them up when you are supposed to and I do not think it is any more damaging for the kids to be kept from one parent than to have one parent just not show up. The custodial parent should have rights and the priviledge to be able to count on this visitation time and make plans for their own life but can be left sitting, waiting and wondering while the other parent can opt to show up or not. Not fair.

And do you have a legal question for us?

 

[ErinGoBragh]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IN

What I do not understand is why a parent cannot be held in contempt for not picking up their children for visitation but a parent can be held in contempt for not allowing visitation. It's the exact same order. The Judge has ordered specific times for visitation, both parties should have to abide or be held in contempt.

It is not fair to the other parent or the children to not pick them up when you are supposed to and I do not think it is any more damaging for the kids to be kept from one parent than to have one parent just not show up. The custodial parent should have rights and the priviledge to be able to count on this visitation time and make plans for their own life but can be left sitting, waiting and wondering while the other parent can opt to show up or not. Not fair.

This is not a forum for you to b*tch about your opinions, so cut it out. This is a LEGAL forum. Now, did you have a question?

 

[Humusluvr]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IN

What I do not understand is why a parent cannot be held in contempt for not picking up their children for visitation but a parent can be held in contempt for not allowing visitation. It's the exact same order. The Judge has ordered specific times for visitation, both parties should have to abide or be held in contempt.

It is not fair to the other parent or the children to not pick them up when you are supposed to and I do not think it is any more damaging for the kids to be kept from one parent than to have one parent just not show up. The custodial parent should have rights and the priviledge to be able to count on this visitation time and make plans for their own life but can be left sitting, waiting and wondering while the other parent can opt to show up or not. Not fair.

I agree, its not fair, but its part of being the CP. The only thing you can do to change it is YOU be the NCP (give him the kiddos) and then YOU not show up for visits. That'll teach him, right?

I myself would prefer to just have a good backup plan, and if he doesn't regularly use his time (document document document) then request a mod, or request child cARE FEES INCURRED WHEN HE DOES NOT EXERCISE HIS VISITATION. (sorry bout the caps, fingers slipped)

 

[haiku]

Perhaps you misunderstand what the point of legal visitation is.

Visitation is the MINIMUM amount of time an NCP is legally allowed to have with thier children. They don't have to have any, but they are allowed LEGALLY, to have at least that much...

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IN

What I do not understand is why a parent cannot be held in contempt for not picking up their children for visitation but a parent can be held in contempt for not allowing visitation. It's the exact same order. The Judge has ordered specific times for visitation, both parties should have to abide or be held in contempt.

It is not fair to the other parent or the children to not pick them up when you are supposed to and I do not think it is any more damaging for the kids to be kept from one parent than to have one parent just not show up. The custodial parent should have rights and the priviledge to be able to count on this visitation time and make plans for their own life but can be left sitting, waiting and wondering while the other parent can opt to show up or not. Not fair.

Okay not fair. I agree. it is not fair that the CP is forced to spend time with the child.

Now flip it. The NCP is forced to pay an amount determined by the court towards the support of the child. Regardless of whether the NCP's job changes or things beyond his control. If the NCP works overtime that is calculated as salary. So the NCP has to continuously work overtime in order to meet child suport guidelines.

In other words, each side has their crosses to bear. If raising your children is too much of a burden, give them up for adoption or to the NCP to raise.

 

[stealth2]

It boggles the mind that adults are still whining about life not being faaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiir. Who ever said life was going to be fair?

 

[Isis1]

It boggles the mind that adults are still whining about life not being faaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiir. Who ever said life was going to be fair?

i am a custodial parent. i think life is fantasticly fair. i may not afford getting my nails done, who knows when i'll ever be able to cover up all this grey hair, i may never have a facial again. but i have my kids. NCP doesn't show up, too bad, i get another movie night with my kids. we get an extra day to make pizza or brownies. if i can get a babysitter, okay fine. real friends get it. they can reschedule. the bars won't close down forever if you don't make it there tonight. now that i thought about it, there are at least 4 friends i have not seen in 3 years, but we still talk and make plans.

 

[stealth2]

i am a custodial parent. i think life is fantasticly fair. i may not afford getting my nails done, who knows when i'll ever be able to cover up all this grey hair, i may never have a facial again. but i have my kids. NCP doesn't show up, too bad, i get another movie night with my kids. we get an extra day to make pizza or brownies. if i can get a babysitter, okay fine. real friends get it. they can reschedule. the bars won't close down forever if you don't make it there tonight. now that i thought about it, there are at least 4 friends i have not seen in 3 years, but we still talk and make plans.

hehehe True, dat. I'm also a CP. My two saw their Dad at New Years, then a week in June. No clue when they'll see him next. Whatevs. I consider every extra moment with them a blessing.

 

[JustAMom2five]

I agree, its not fair, but its part of being the CP. The only thing you can do to change it is YOU be the NCP (give him the kiddos) and then YOU not show up for visits. That'll teach him, right?

I myself would prefer to just have a good backup plan, and if he doesn't regularly use his time (document document document) then request a mod, or request child cARE FEES INCURRED WHEN HE DOES NOT EXERCISE HIS VISITATION. (sorry bout the caps, fingers slipped)

There wasn't a question in the original post but I think Humusluvr answered the hidden question... "what to do?"
It may not be fair and it's very clear pretty much everybody feels the same way, but like many have pointed out there are ups and downs to either side.. and those of us lucky enough to be on the CP side we ought to be thankful enough to roll with the punches.

In other words, each side has their crosses to bear. quoting Og

Here is a question.. what good would be holding the NCP in contempt for missed visits?
So NCP has missed x amount of visits and in doing so put CP in a strain (socially.. work schedule wise..or in just plain personal time?) and so CP wants to strike back.
So here comes the court date and the "contempt charges". NCP gets his/her hiney reamed by the judge and then has what... a possible fine to pay?
Would this type of situation really encourage the NCP to spend time with the child/ren? Would the visits that NCP would normally be ducking out of then be good quality time or would the child/ren be feeling the strain of a forced visit?

hmm.. just thought I'd throw some questions out there.

 

[proud_parent]

Here is a question.. what good would be holding the NCP in contempt for missed visits?
So NCP has missed x amount of visits and in doing so put CP in a strain (socially.. work schedule wise..or in just plain personal time?) and so CP wants to strike back.
So here comes the court date and the "contempt charges". NCP gets his/her hiney reamed by the judge and then has what... a possible fine to pay?
Would this type of situation really encourage the NCP to spend time with the child/ren? Would the visits that NCP would normally be ducking out of then be good quality time or would the child/ren be feeling the strain of a forced visit?

Interesting questions. (I presume these are rhetorical.) Allow me to add a couple observations.

First, many of us know craptastic parents -- CPs and NCPs alike -- who would gladly endure the occasional judicial tongue-lashing, even pony up for a fine here or there, just to prolong the "you can't make me" game with the ex. That is, right up to the point that a judge strips the offender of parenting time and/or custody rights.

Second, as with other human behavior, the carrot can sometimes be more effective than the stick. In other words, one might do better to focus on ways to encourage NCPs toward good co-parenting than to focus on ways to punish them for bad co-parenting.

 

[Ohiogal]

Or forcing the children to spend time with a parent who doesn't want them around could result in the child being neglected or abused. hey but the CP would get a night off.

Why people bitch about MORE time with their children is beyond me. Many NCPs would LOVE more time and CPs refuse for a variety of reasons. Some NCPs have to work and can't get time off -- the whole idea of "just get the time off" is not able for many people -- especially not when they are paying child support. So some NCPs have to miss time. That doesn't necessarily mean they are bad parents or even craptastic parents or even selfish parents. Rock meet hard place. They get crushed.

On the other hand there are NCPs that don't want the children around and yet you want to force them to take the children or have them found in contempt. Good grief. My caseload at juvenile court with abused children would skyrocket. Hey but the NCP would be exercising their time. GOOD PLAN!

Also, if we hold the NCP in contempt for that, then we should hold the CP in contempt if they cannot prove that they spend X amount of dollars on the children every month. And yes I know children are expensive but I also have people that don't actually spend money on the children -- they get aid for the children and section VIII and food stamps and SSI for the children. Where is the CPs contribution to raising the child in that situation -- which is often? If the NCP has to work to support the child then the CP should also have to work. They should not be able to lower their contribution to the children without getting court's approval either. Oh and they should also lose the tax benefits that being CP brings them. Should I continue? Oh life is definitely not fair. For either the CP or the NCP.

But lets force the issue shall we?

 

[my life is mine]

Or do like I did, wait and document, and wait some more. Then when NCP complains and whines and decides he/she will take you back to court for whatever reason, bring all that documentation with you, then watch the Judge eat them alive, take time away from them, increase your child support because you have the children consistently, take away the tax break they were getting.

 

[wileybunch]

Like others have said, score for me when I get more time with my kids because their Dad moved away and asked for limited visitation. But, that really isn't a score for the kids, not ideal. But, we make the most of it and I am remarried and we live a full life. Still, not ideal for kids to have to figure out why one of their parents doesn't spend more time than them. It has to register on SOME level with kids. They're not dumb.

OP, I hope you understand now how your thinking is off with regard to the other parent exercising visitation. It's all they have to protect their rights to see their kids *if they want to*.

At the risk of sounding too sympathetic, I know there are many females who have taken on a larger share of parenting because Dad is a deadbeat or less than he should be and some of these Moms feel like they need a break from time to time. Can't blame them, Moms in intact families feel the same way and that is WITH someone helping them. The best thing you can do is form your life around not expecting help from the father then and that goes for child support, too, if they are flaky with that. When you don't expect it and look for other ways to go about raising your kids, you CAN make it work out, form partnerships with other people, make sure you get some breaks to recharge, and you will feel empowered in the process because you ARE capable of "doing it alone."

 

[DEH313]

And do you have a legal question for us?

None of your replies were very informed or helpful. My question clearly was, why is only one parent at risk of being held in contempt for not following a Judge's Order for visitation? It clearly says in the Guidelines "Parenting time is both a right and a responsibility, and scheduled parenting time shall occur as planned." What I got from each reply was that none of you know why this is one-sided. This is not about my children and I am not divorced. Please keep opinions regarding my parenting to yourselves and stick to the question of vistiation contempt if you choose to respond.