What my parents are doing isn't right!

[mary frances]

I am painfully aware of the gravity of this situation and that retaining an attorney is vitally important. I have spoken with legal aid, and they told me that they usually only take cases where one parent is trying to retain custody when the other parent seeks to take it from them. They said my case is unusual because it's between me and my parents, so they may be able to take it pending board review. I should find out by the end of this week, but if they cannot help me I will have to do this on my own. Legal aid is the only avenue through which I will be able to have legal representation. It has occured to me that by pursuing fixed visitation and ultimately custody I could end up completely losing my parental rights to Ivy and possibly even my unborn child, especially if I am unable to secure a lawyer. This is why I am afraid to begin this battle; yet I can't possibly sit back an do nothing. My daughter is worth fighting for, but should I risk losing both my children? I will look into the GAL, perhaps someone knows how to obtain one?
As far as the annual reviews that where mentioned, I have never had one. There has been no court involvement since July 2002. The reason Ivy lives with my parents is complicated, but in as brief an explanation as possible: Ivy's father left Ivy and I in 2001. He moved out of our home and left me to pay rent, bills, everything. There was no money, and Ivy and I were going to be homeless and hungry within a few weeks, so I sent Ivy to stay with her Great Aunt until I could amend the situation. Unfortunately, I was unable to rectify my financial problems on my own. It wasn't until I met Cory, the father of this new baby and my fiance', later that year that I was finally ready to adequately provide for my daughter. We brought her into our home, but because the Aunt had requested state assistance for Ivy's care, a judgement for child support had been issued by the courts. There was absolutely no judgement made at that time pertaining to custody. Exactly 24 hours after Ivy came to live with us, child protective services came to our home and made Cory leave, saying that he had been accused of hurting Ivy. The aunt made this accusation, I believe because she did not want to lose her state assistance; without Ivy, she did not qualify. A week later I brought Ivy to be assessed, and the charges were found to be completely untrue. Sadly, as Ivy and I were leaving the assesment, the authorities forced me to hand Ivy over to the aunt, who had shown up with her order for child support, saying it was an order for custody, and child protective services horrifyingly took her word for it. I immediately sought to clear up the confusion through the courts, but I had no attorney and the judge would not let me speak a word on my behalf, even though I had personally petitioned the court to hold a hearing on that day. Ironically, the aunt's home had become abusive and neglectful, and because I had no other choice, I asked my father help me. I did the best thing that I could do for Ivy at the time, and as a result I am facing things as they are now. As an added note to further prove the aunt's gross misuse of child protective services, shortly after Ivy went to stay with my parents, she brought charges against them and they were investigated as well.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I am so glad you came back.

Call your local bar association and ask for a referal to an attorney, one for custody and possibly one who will do it pro bono if possible if legal aid isn't able to help but let's hope they are.

Call social services, ask for a case worker or the probate court in Kent county, they handle guardianships and should be able to refer you to a GAL, for both children. Since your Aunt's claims were unfounded that should help.

You will need to work with the attorney to establish the placement plan and the annual reviews, but don't do anythng until you have consulted with someone.

Has there ever been a child support order for Ivy's father? That should cover some of the financial issues.

Is your unborn child's father living with you again and supporting you? Are you working or getting assistance?

Do your papers have the words "Guardianship" on them?

More questions but this is a start.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Here are two courts to contact: The first is called : Friend of the Court,
This is domestic court, and where you can ceck on the child support that Ivy's father owes etc.

82 Ionia
Grand Rapids, MI 49503
General Information: (616) 632-6888
Fax: (616) 632-6871
How The Friend of the Court Becomes Involved

The Friend of the Court is the collection, enforcement and investigative arm of the Circuit Court in the area of domestic relations. The action by the office is dictated by court order. Orders are issued by the court after the Judge has made a determination and the written document is signed, then filed with the county clerk. To obtain a domestic relations order from the Court, the issue has to be brought before the Court through formal legal action. This is accomplished through private attorneys, sometimes the prosecuting attorney or by action of one of the parties. The Friend of the Court does not become involved until action is filed with the court.

This is where the guardianships for both adults and minors are handled this changed last year so it may not be where the papers were first filed, that may be in the Friends of the court (domestic court). The may be able to assist with the GAL
Probate Court
180 Ottawa NW, Suite 2500
Grand Rapids, MI 49503
Phone: (616) 632-5440
Fax: (616) 632-5430

Mission Statement

The mission of the Kent County Probate Court, Mental and Estates Division, is to provide a fair and efficient forum to have all matters that come within the jurisdiction of the Probate Court decided promptly and in an atmosphere of respect to all persons who come before the court.

Hours: 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Monday - Friday
Filings accepted from 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.
Judges

Honorable Janet A. Haynes, Chief Probate Judge, (616) 632-5428

Judge Haynes took the bench on April 29, 1988. She received her B.A. and B.S.N. from Northern Michigan University, and her J.D. from Thomas Cooley Law School. She served as a clerk to Federal District Judge Benjamin Gibson, and as a referee/staff attorney at Kent County Friend of the Court. Her private practice was with Zerenner, Landers & Haynes, where she specialized in family law. She served as Chief Judge pro tem of the Probate Court from January 1997 until January 2001, when the Michigan Supreme Court appointed her as Chief Judge.

* Honorable Nanaruth H. Carpenter - Presiding Judge of Family Division
* Honorable Patricia D. Gardner
* Honorable G. Patrick Hillary

Probate Court Duties

Probate Court exercises jurisdiction and supervision in probating of wills and of the administration of estates and trust of deceased person by personal representatives and trustees. The Court also hears cases pertaining to guardianships; conservatorship for adults and minors; the commitment for hospitalization and or treatment of mentally ill persons, the mentally handicapped, and addicted persons.

 

[mary frances]

Ivy's father currently pays child support to my parents. He and I no longer speak, but as far as I know from other sources, he is not pursuing any kind of revision to the current arrangement and is not in any position to do so. Of course, he abandoned his family in the first place and never bothered to show up for any of the court proceedings, except to sign the final paperwork.
The papers I have use the terms guardianship and custody in the same sentence, which confused me then and confuses me now. I was told at the time that the terms were just two different ways of saying the same thing: guardianship. Another paragraph states that the father and I share joint legal custody, while my parents have physical custody.
My unborn child's father and I do live together; however, we share expenses. I am employed, although I do receive social security disability payments each month as well, and my health insurance is through medicare and medicaid. I understand that this kind of coverage versus the private insurance that my father holds is an issue the courts will definitely consider.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Ivy's father currently pays child support to my parents. He and I no longer speak, but as far as I know from other sources, he is not pursuing any kind of revision to the current arrangement and is not in any position to do so. Of course, he abandoned his family in the first place and never bothered to show up for any of the court proceedings, except to sign the final paperwork.
The papers I have use the terms guardianship and custody in the same sentence, which confused me then and confuses me now. I was told at the time that the terms were just two different ways of saying the same thing: guardianship. Another paragraph states that the father and I share joint legal custody, while my parents have physical custody.
My unborn child's father and I do live together; however, we share expenses. I am employed, although I do receive social security disability payments each month as well, and my health insurance is through medicare and medicaid. I understand that this kind of coverage versus the private insurance that my father holds is an issue the courts will definitely consider.

Well it says guardianship and they do use the terms together what typr, Limited guardianship any numbers?
like MCL 700.5205 15.5.2 ?
SDDI put's a dfferent spin on it, you are working and on ssdi, was your disability prior to your 18th birthday and what is the nature of your disability as that may affect how your case is handled and resources. I take it your portion of child support is coming from SSDI and going to your parents as Ivy's rep. payee?
Your local disability living center may also have legal resources available to you in addition to legal aid.
Michigan Centers For Independent Living

Independent Living is the principle that individuals with any disability, to the fullest extent possible, shall work, live in their own homes, raise families, and participate in the everyday activities of life.

Centers for Independent Living (CIL’s) are typically non-residential, private, non-profit, consumer-controlled, community-based organizations providing services and advocacy by and for persons with all types of disabilities. Michigan’s CIL’s are an excellent first-contact for information regarding disability issues and for outreach and recruitment activities.

Services

Information and Referral Services

* Employment services and information
* Spectran paratransit rider certification
* Emergency services and support information
* Housing information - subsidized and barrier-free
* Obtaining adaptive equipment and assistive technology
* Social Security and other supportive funding information
* Recreation and volunteer opportunities

Community Awareness and Advocacy

* Working with employers to provide job accommodations
* Accessible housing development
* Public speaking to groups, schools, employees, churches, etc.
* Legislation - speaking before Michigan legislature and national advocacy
* Americans With Disabilities Act - teaching seminars and one-on-one training assistance


Individual Skills Development

* Job readiness skill-building
* Rehabilitation nursing assessments and follow-up services
* Independent living assessments and skills training
* One-on-one training for individuals with specific needs
* School-to-work transition services for students with disabilities


Peer Support

* Matching people with disabilities as mentors for newly disabled people
* Matching people with similar disabilities for support and information sharing

For more information about Independent Living Centers throughout the United States, including a listing of all IL Centers in the US, visit the Independent Living USA web site.



Michigan Centers For Independent Living

ANN ARBOR CIL

James Magyar, Director

2568 Packard Road

Ann Arbor MI 48104

(734) 971-0277 (Voice)

(734) 971-0310 (TTY)

(734) 971-0826 (Fax)

Email: [email protected]

COALITION FOR IL

Corrie Listenberger-Bair, Contact

PO Box 663

Edwardsburg MI 49112

(616) 663-6090 (Voice)


THE DISABILITY NETWORK

Michael Zelley, Director

3600 S Dort Highway Ste 54

Flint MI 48507-2054

(810) 742-1800 (Voice)

(810) 742-7647 (TTY)

(810) 742-2400 (Fax)

(800) ADA-6040 (Toll Free)

Email: [email protected]



THE DISABILITY RESOURCE CENTER

Joel Cooper, President & CEO

517 E. Crosstown Parkway

Kalamazoo MI 49001

(616) 345-1516 (Voice)

(616) 346-1518 (TTY)

(616) 345-0229 (Fax)

Email: [email protected]


DISABILITY ADVOCATES OF KENT COUNTY

Dave Bulkowski, Director

3600 Camelot Dr SE

Grand Rapids MI 49546

(616) 949-1100 (Voice/TTY)

(616) 949-7865 (Fax)

Email: [email protected]


LAKE SHORE CIL

Ruth Stegeman, Director

426 Century Lane

Holland MI 49423

(616) 396-5326 (Voice)

(616) 396-3220 (Fax)

Email: [email protected]

 

[mary frances]

I receive SSDI for mental illness, which has been a chronic condition since I was 15, although I did not begin receiving social security until 2002. I should add that in no way has Ivy ever been harmed or made to suffer because of this, yet I am sure my parents will try to use it against me, as they have in the past. I am under the care of an excellent psychiatrist and I always comply with medication therapies, although I am not taking any medication at this time as it would harm the baby.
There are several numbers like your example on my papers: MCL722.21, MCL 552.603a, MCLA 722.31, and MCL 922.31.
Thank you so much for your advice. You are exactly the kind of person I was hoping I could find on this website.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I receive SSDI for mental illness, which has been a chronic condition since I was 15, although I did not begin receiving social security until 2002. (THIS WILL BECOME AN ISSUE, YOU WILL DEFINATELY REQUIRE AN ATTORNEY YOU MIGHT ALSO CONTACT YOUR LOCAL MENTAL HEALTH ALLIANCE - NAMI
MICHIGAN!
921 N. Washington
Lansing, MI 48906
PHONE-(800) 331-4264 - (517) 485-4049
FAX- (517) 485-2333)
I should add that in no way has Ivy ever been harmed or made to suffer because of this, yet I am sure my parents will try to use it against me, as they have in the past. I am under the care of an excellent psychiatrist and I always comply with medication therapies, although I am not taking any medication at this time as it would harm the baby. (SEND ME A PERSONAL MESSAGE WITH Dx AND Rx THIS MAY HELP FURTHER)
There are several numbers like your example on my papers: MCL722.21, MCL 552.603a, MCLA 722.31, and MCL 922.31.
Thank you so much for your advice. You are exactly the kind of person I was hoping I could find on this website.

EXCEPT FOR THE LAST WHICH I COULDN'T FIND, THEY ARE RELATED TO CHILD SUPPORT/CUSTODY/PARENTING TIME THERE MAY BE SOME OTHERS? LIKE MCL 700.5205?
Michigan Compiled Laws - Selected
Child Custody Act: MCL 722.21 - 722.31
Child Protection Act: MCL 722.621 - 722.638
Circuit Court Family Counseling Services Act: MCL 551.331 - 551.344
Family Support Act: MCL 552.451 - 552.459
Friend of the Court Act: MCL 552.501 - 552.535
Office of Child Support Act: MCL 400.231 - MCL 400.240
Paternity Act: MCL 722.711 - 722.730
Status and Emancipation of Minors - Rights of Parents: MCL 722.1 - 722.6
Support and Parenting Time Enforcement Act: MCL 552.601 - 552.650
Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Enforcement Act: MCL 722.1101 - 722.1406
Uniform Interstate Family Support Act: MCL 552.1101 - 552.1901

HERE ARE THE SECTIONS RELATED TO GUARDIANSHIP AND PROTETED STATUS: ESTATES AND PROTECTED INDIVIDUALS CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 386 of 1998
PART 2 GUARDIANS OF MINORS
Document Type Description
Section 700.5201 Section Appointment and status of guardians of minor.
Section 700.5202 Section Parental appointment of guardian for minor.
Section 700.5203 Section Objection by minor of 14 years or older to parental appointment.
Section 700.5204 Section Court appointment of guardian of minor; conditions for appointment.
Section 700.5205 Section Court appointment of limited guardian; requirements.
Section 700.5206 Section Review modification of plan; powers and duties of limited guardian.
Section 700.5207 Section Review of guardianship of minor.
Section 700.5208 Section Petition to terminate guardianship of minor.
Section 700.5209 Section Court action on petition to terminate guardianship of minor.
Section 700.5210 Section Order for termination of guardianship of minor.
Section 700.5211 Section Venue.
Section 700.5212 Section Court appointment of guardian of minor; qualifications; priority of minor's nominee.
Section 700.5213 Section Procedure for court appointment of guardian, temporary guardian, or lawyer-guardian ad litem for minor.
Section 700.5214 Section Consent to service by acceptance of appointment; notice.
Section 700.5215 Section Powers and duties of guardian of minor.
Section 700.5216 Section Compensation; claim for burial expense.
Section 700.5217 Section Termination of appointment of guardian.
Section 700.5218 Section Proceedings subsequent to appointment; venue.
Section 700.5219 Section Resignation, removal, and other post-appointment proceedings.


Michigan Legislature Section 700.5205, Section, Court appointment of limited guardian; requirements. ... The Michigan Legislature Website is a free service of the Legislative Internet ...
http://www.michiganlegislature.org/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=mcl-386-1998-V-2&highlight=

 

[Whyte Noise]

So, in other words...

All of the quoted statutes in the court papers relate to custody/child support/ and visitation because that's what was at issue, and not guardianship.

Now that you have made it clear to everyone that this is indeed a custody case, you should get the correct guidance that you need.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

These are some not all of her papers and she says :
"The papers I have use the terms guardianship and custody in the same sentence, which confused me then and confuses me now."
She may not even have access to the guardianship papers due to her disability, which is why everything makes no sense to her and why CPS is saying and doing one thing and her Aunt and then her parents were going to differents courts, eg Friend of the court for custody/child support and CPS to Probate court for guardianship. She will get an attorney and hopefully get it straightened out, she realizes that is what she must do, but because of her disability she will have an uphill challenge, also guardianship would have been utilized owing to her disability as opposed to straight custody, she stated her parents had already used that aginst her.

ESTATES AND PROTECTED INDIVIDUALS CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 386 of 1998 700.5205 Court appointment of limited guardian; requirements. Sec. 5205.

(1) The court may appoint a limited guardian for an unmarried minor upon the petition of the minor's parent or parents if all of the following requirements are met:

(a) The parents with custody of the minor consent or, in the case of only 1 parent having custody of the minor, the sole parent consents to the appointment of a limited guardian.

(b) The parent or parents voluntarily consent to the suspension of their parental rights.

(c) The court approves a limited guardianship placement plan agreed to by both of the following parties:

(i) The parents with custody of the minor or, in the case of only 1 parent having custody of the minor, the sole parent who has custody of the minor.

(ii) The person or persons whom the court will appoint as the minor's limited guardian.

(2) A minor's parent or parents who desire to have the court appoint a limited guardian for that minor and the person or persons who desire to be appointed limited guardian for that minor must develop a limited guardianship placement plan. The parties must use a limited guardianship placement plan form prescribed by the state court administrator. A limited guardianship placement plan form must include a notice that informs a parent who is a party to the plan that substantial failure to comply with the plan without good cause may result in the termination of the parent's parental rights under chapter XIIA of 1939 PA 288, MCL 712A.1 to 712A.32. The proposed limited guardianship placement plan shall be attached to the petition requesting the court to appoint a limited guardian. The limited guardianship placement plan shall include provisions concerning all of the following:

(a) The reason the parent or parents are requesting the court to appoint a limited guardian for the minor.

(b) Parenting time and contact with the minor by his or her parent or parents sufficient to maintain a parent and child relationship.

(c) The duration of the limited guardianship.

(d) Financial support for the minor. (That's what MCL 722.21-31 did that is why she has these codes)

(e) Any other provisions that the parties agree to include in the plan.

History: 1998, Act 386, Eff. Apr. 1, 2000 .

 

[stealth2]

Folks. What we're doing here is essentially guessing. OP needs to see an attorney and soon. Even with all the links and information, this is not a situation that is going to be effectively handled pro se. It's that simple.

 

[mrsgrayston]

Folks. What we're doing here is essentially guessing. OP needs to see an attorney and soon. Even with all the links and information, this is not a situation that is going to be effectively handled pro se. It's that simple.

While this may be true... I give rmet4 a BIG thank you for all the time spent on helping this girl

 

[rmet4nzkx]

While this may be true... I give rmet4 a BIG thank you for all the time spent on helping this girl

Thank you! There is usually a reason for the word guardianship being used and in this case we didn't have a lot of information up front due to confidentiality, and always clear OP needed an attorney.

 

[tigger2two]

Ok i get the argumeent of is it custody or is it guardianship. But why does the poster keep saying that she is at risk to lose her unborn child too?? What did i miss?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Ok i get the argumeent of is it custody or is it guardianship. But why does the poster keep saying that she is at risk to lose her unborn child too?? What did i miss?

If they are keeping her 6 year old child away from her for cause, her parents don't want her to have/keep the child and she petitions to revoke the guardianship/physical custody and looses, the court can terminate her parental rights to the 6 year old, if that is the case then she is at risk to also lose custody of the unborn child upon birth because that child requires even more care. There is the added fact that she is dependent on the father of that child, so there would be additional questions of his fitness and her competency, that is why her unborn child needs a GAL so her parents don't exploit the situation. Otherwise she is at risk to lose custody of that child also no matter the custody of the 6 year old. OP is aware of these implications and why she needs an attorney, hopefully she will have someone to help her soon and that the best interest of both children are met.

 

[LdiJ]

If they are keeping her 6 year old child away from her for cause, her parents don't want her to have/keep the child and she petitions to revoke the guardianship/physical custody and looses, the court can terminate her parental rights to the 6 year old, if that is the case then she is at risk to also lose custody of the unborn child upon birth because that child requires even more care. There is the added fact that she is dependent on the father of that child, so there would be additional questions of his fitness and her competency, that is why her unborn child needs a GAL so her parents don't exploit the situation. Otherwise she is at risk to lose custody of that child also no matter the custody of the 6 year old. OP is aware of these implications and why she needs an attorney, hopefully she will have someone to help her soon and that the best interest of both children are met.

I still think that is a bit "over the top". Her parents didn't get custody because they proved her unfit, they got custody because she voluntarily gave it to them. In addition, being "dependent" on the father of her second child is in no way grounds for unfitness. There is nothing here to indicate that there are any grounds for unfitness and the father of the second child also has rights that trump those of a grandparent.

In my opinion getting a GAL for the unborn child now would be a "tactical error". It would be an admission that there could be potential problems. Its fair to warn her that her parents might try something, however if they do, she can get a GAL then.