WISCONSIN: Go Unrepresented to Temporary Order w/FCC?

[nandeswi]

WISCONSIN

NOTE: Using a friend's account.

BACKGROUND
I'm the husband. 10 yr marriage, 1 minor child who has been living w/mom but most weekends are with me. Last summer was w/mom but the majority of this summer is to be with me.

Physically separated by 200+ miles (but both parties in Wisc) for approx 1-1/2 years. Divorce was filed for over 6 months ago in her county. We both agreed to go pro se in order to keep things amicable. Parenting classes completed, but financial disclosure & custody has not been.

We attempted mediation & working on finances and custody ourselves, but were particularly unable to agree on how much time for custody between locations. I am not fighting the primary being w/wife. But I am instead trying to get closer to the 50% that I feel is equitable, and the time my daughter & I need together.

Our mediator likewise mentioned the 50% being reasonable. Once alone & with paperwork in hand, her offer to me was less than 25%. I completely declined that offer. Things have since gone better with regard to an equitable arrangement, but it is still not close to 50%.

CURRENTLY
I have just received a notice of retainer from an attorney hired by her. The letter further requests we meet with the Family Court Commissioner in her county this week. Her counsel will be there, but I am unsure to what extent.

QUESTION
Do I need to go in there with counsel myself? Due to the quick turn around on this (2 weeks), is it reasonable to request a reschedule of this meeting?

I feel wholly confident that I can find good representation within a week, even though it is out of my area. But I am fairly certain that retaining that counsel AND getting them to a meeting this week is simply not doable.

Thank you in advance for help. It is very much appreciated!What is the name of your state?

 

[LdiJ]

WISCONSIN

NOTE: Using a friend's account.

BACKGROUND
I'm the husband. 10 yr marriage, 1 minor child who has been living w/mom but most weekends are with me. Last summer was w/mom but the majority of this summer is to be with me.

Physically separated by 200+ miles (but both parties in Wisc) for approx 1-1/2 years. Divorce was filed for over 6 months ago in her county. We both agreed to go pro se in order to keep things amicable. Parenting classes completed, but financial disclosure & custody has not been.

We attempted mediation & working on finances and custody ourselves, but were particularly unable to agree on how much time for custody between locations. I am not fighting the primary being w/wife. But I am instead trying to get closer to the 50% that I feel is equitable, and the time my daughter & I need together.

Our mediator likewise mentioned the 50% being reasonable. Once alone & with paperwork in hand, her offer to me was less than 25%. I completely declined that offer. Things have since gone better with regard to an equitable arrangement, but it is still not close to 50%.

CURRENTLY
I have just received a notice of retainer from an attorney hired by her. The letter further requests we meet with the Family Court Commissioner in her county this week. Her counsel will be there, but I am unsure to what extent.

QUESTION
Do I need to go in there with counsel myself? Due to the quick turn around on this (2 weeks), is it reasonable to request a reschedule of this meeting?

I feel wholly confident that I can find good representation within a week, even though it is out of my area. But I am fairly certain that retaining that counsel AND getting them to a meeting this week is simply not doable.

Thank you in advance for help. It is very much appreciated!What is the name of your state?

You said that the two of you are 200 miles apart? Please tell me what kind of schedule you are suggesting?

Every weekend, every holiday and all summer might give you about 50% but that would be patently unfair to both your child and your child's mother. That would give the two of them absolutely no "free" time together at all, and no holidays together at all.

It would leave absolutely no time at all for the child to spend any time with his/her maternal extended family either.

Every other weekend, plus 1/2 of the school holidays, plus the bulk of the summer (leaving a couple of weeks for mom to vacation with the child) would be workable and fair.

Please don't get so hung up on the 50/50 that you leave your child's best interest out of the equation.

If you were the CP and the only time your child was with you were school nights, it wouldn't be fair to you, your child, or your extended family either.

Seriously, think it through. Kids need "down time" with both parents.

 

[Zephyr]

go to the meeting with the family court commissioner, do not agree to anything you aren't prepared to live with and inform the commissioner that you are in the process of retaining a lawyer and should have one within a week.

 

[nandeswi]

Me again, now with my own account. Apologies, but the power went out during t-storms & my email access along with it.

You said that the two of you are 200 miles apart? Please tell me what kind of schedule you are suggesting?

You are obviously getting to the crux of the matter. This what *I* need to determine on my own, and present during this meeting.

Every weekend, every holiday and all summer might give you about 50% but that would be patently unfair to both your child and your child's mother. That would give the two of them absolutely no "free" time together at all, and no holidays together at all.

I understand, and do appreciate your candor and unbiased opinion. I may be somewhat leaning on the “50% as equitable” mantra. But I also feel as though I am missing out on the vast majority of week days, so mom's missing out on weekends seems “fair” in my (admittedly biased) view. I acknowledge that is not fair.

Every other weekend, plus 1/2 of the school holidays, plus the bulk of the summer (leaving a couple of weeks for mom to vacation with the child) would be workable and fair.

I appreciate that suggestion. I will also suggest that I make the complete trip at least once per month and spend time with our daughter in the city of her mom.

Please don't get so hung up on the 50/50 that you leave your child's best interest out of the equation.

Well, I personally feel less hung up on the 50/50 than the child. My time away from her is very difficult, while those with her are rich & rewarding … for both of us. But I do need to acknowledge that she also needs those moments with her mom too.

Thanks again & have a wonderful weekend.

 

[Zephyr]

deltabravo.net has some sample long distance parenting plans

 

[machias]

deltabravo.net has some sample long distance parenting plans

Thank you for the link, as well as the advice about not agreeing to anything in the meeting that I'm uncomfortable with. I was already going that route, but it's always nice to hear somebody else say it.

With regard to not agreeing, mom's been saying, "We should just agree to what I want now ... then go back to have it changed in 2 years."

My response was, "Or YOU can agree to what *I* want now ... then YOU can go back in 2 years!" She didn't like that alternative

Always wanted my JD but never took it past the LSAT. Guess I'll see how I fair as a pro se litigator ....

 

[summerdawn]

Me again, now with my own account. Apologies, but the power went out during t-storms & my email access along with it.
.

Uhhh...looks like the same username as the first post...

 

[Ohiogal]

Thank you for the link, as well as the advice about not agreeing to anything in the meeting that I'm uncomfortable with. I was already going that route, but it's always nice to hear somebody else say it.

With regard to not agreeing, mom's been saying, "We should just agree to what I want now ... then go back to have it changed in 2 years."

My response was, "Or YOU can agree to what *I* want now ... then YOU can go back in 2 years!" She didn't like that alternative

Always wanted my JD but never took it past the LSAT. Guess I'll see how I fair as a pro se litigator ....

Here is the thing -- you left the child with mom. Mom may get more overnights but if the child is in school, she is not getting many hours during the week when the child is NOT sleeping or in school or in other activities.

You need to understand that the child DESERVES to have some free time with mom and some with you. The child deserves to have half the holidays with you and half with mom. The child deserves free time in the summer with mom. And with you. Quit looking at what is fair to YOU! Look at it from the child's perspective.

That being said, I agree with LD. You want 50/50 time. Then YOU pick up and move to where mom is with the child. End of story. You do NOT have a custody agreement now and you have not gone through court to begin with and yet you were okay with the 200 mile distance. So therefore due to choices you made, you need to deal with the reality of the situation.

You need to deal with the fact that you will most likely get every other weekend, half the holidays and six weeks in summer. So what is MOM offering?

Also realize that you are legally allowed to participate in your child's activities at school just like mom is. You are allowed to go to your child's extracurricular activities just like mom is.

 

[machias]

Then YOU pick up and move to where mom is with the child. End of story. You do NOT have a custody agreement now and you have not gone through court to begin with and yet you were okay with the 200 mile distance. So therefore due to choices you made, you need to deal with the reality of the situation.

I should've clarified background on the long distance arrangement. Apologies on that ... Mom & I still have a home where I'm at. She had several jobs here; it's a metro area.

We agreed to something called a "controlled separation" at the suggestion of a marriage counselor, a written agreement between mom and I that was supposed to cool us down & attempt to repair the marriage. It was to be for 6 months.

So mom moved to her hometown with my agreement, because she would be given a place to live & had the support of family. I stayed here. Once the six months were up, it was clear the marriage wasn't going to get any better. So here we are now, 200 miles apart.

With regard to moving, mom's county is one of the 10 lowest for annual income & 10 highest for poverty in the state. Yes, I could move there & have looked into jobs in that area in the past. But the reality is that there just is not the job base or income level that would allow our child to maintain her good present lifestyle, or an excellent future. It also leaves me without a support base as far as family, friends, etc. as they are all on my side of the state.

My parents are significantly older than her's and beginning to require help, I still have a grandmother in her 90's while mom's are all passed, etc. So there are multiple, significant issues involved in my decision to not move closer to our child.

You need to deal with the fact that you will most likely get every other weekend, half the holidays and six weeks in summer. So what is MOM offering?

OK, now I am humbled. That is the approximate arrangement she's offering. As difficult as it is for me to swallow, I do appreciate your perspective with that info.

Maybe I was misled by an earlier counselor, somebody who knew us privately for years before all of this, and who agreed to mediate on our behalf. Understand that this counselor's attitude is that the child should stay in one location, with mom & dad doing all of the travel and living out of their suitcase. However, the counselor also understands that moms and dads are very poor at not snooping around their ex's home during those times, so it tends not to be workable.

OK, so mom's offer was extremely low towards me during this mediation. This counselor told mom that courts tend to want a 50/50 arrangement. Mom became pretty livid with the counselor, who is also a personal friend. It was very uncomfortable.

But it just went to prove my point that mom can also be unrealistic about fairness. As further proof of that sentiment, mom had a paragraph placed in her will that upon her premature demise, she would like the child to go to mom's sister as the primary. Mom's attorney advised against this, but mom's feeling is that, "if mom cannot be there, then the person closest to mom on this earth should be there".

There is no background or reasoning for such a stipulation - I have never been arrested, I have no addictions, I am not an abuser - just her own personal feelings. She was livid with me when she brought this arrangement up, and wanted me to sign a document to that effect. I told her that (1) I never would sign it, and (2) the chances that a court would rule against my parental rights are slim & none.

 

[Ohiogal]

I should've clarified background on the long distance arrangement. Apologies on that ... Mom & I still have a home where I'm at. She had several jobs here; it's a metro area.

We agreed to something called a "controlled separation" at the suggestion of a marriage counselor, a written agreement between mom and I that was supposed to cool us down & attempt to repair the marriage. It was to be for 6 months.

So mom moved to her hometown with my agreement, because she would be given a place to live & had the support of family. I stayed here. Once the six months were up, it was clear the marriage wasn't going to get any better. So here we are now, 200 miles apart.

And none of that matters because you agreed to it and you agreed to the child going with mom.

With regard to moving, mom's county is one of the 10 lowest for annual income & 10 highest for poverty in the state. Yes, I could move there & have looked into jobs in that area in the past. But the reality is that there just is not the job base or income level that would allow our child to maintain her good present lifestyle, or an excellent future. It also leaves me without a support base as far as family, friends, etc. as they are all on my side of the state.

Then you are making a CHOICE as you made a choice when mom moved with your child.

My parents are significantly older than her's and beginning to require help, I still have a grandmother in her 90's while mom's are all passed, etc. So there are multiple, significant issues involved in my decision to not move closer to our child.

Again that is a CHOICE you are making.

OK, now I am humbled. That is the approximate arrangement she's offering. As difficult as it is for me to swallow, I do appreciate your perspective with that info.

And mom is being reasonable.

Maybe I was misled by an earlier counselor, somebody who knew us privately for years before all of this, and who agreed to mediate on our behalf. Understand that this counselor's attitude is that the child should stay in one location, with mom & dad doing all of the travel and living out of their suitcase. However, the counselor also understands that moms and dads are very poor at not snooping around their ex's home during those times, so it tends not to be workable.

Where did the counselor get her law degree? How many custody hearings as the counselor been involved in in court? How much experience does the counselor have with the courts? Nesting may be a cool counseling idea but it has NOT taken root in the courts.

OK, so mom's offer was extremely low towards me during this mediation. This counselor told mom that courts tend to want a 50/50 arrangement. Mom became pretty livid with the counselor, who is also a personal friend. It was very uncomfortable.

Courts do NOT want a 50/50 arrangement -- they tend towards JOINT custody -- both legal and physical. JOINT does NOT equal 50/50.

B

ut it just went to prove my point that mom can also be unrealistic about fairness. As further proof of that sentiment, mom had a paragraph placed in her will that upon her premature demise, she would like the child to go to mom's sister as the primary. Mom's attorney advised against this, but mom's feeling is that, "if mom cannot be there, then the person closest to mom on this earth should be there".

Since the emancipation proclamation people have NOT been property and they CANNOT be willed. So mom is either completely ignorant or still resides in the times of slavery in some sort of time warp.

There is no background or reasoning for such a stipulation - I have never been arrested, I have no addictions, I am not an abuser - just her own personal feelings. She was livid with me when she brought this arrangement up, and wanted me to sign a document to that effect. I told her that (1) I never would sign it, and (2) the chances that a court would rule against my parental rights are slim & none.

So you are correct on that one. Both of you however need to grow up and deal with things the way they are and not with the idea that nesting is an idea. It is an idea but NOT a good one or a feasible one especially in this situation.