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  1. #16
    haiku is offline Senior Member
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    childrens state MEDICAL benefits are not recoverable by the state when they are properly applied for.

    Either the sister in law applied falsely or was also recieving cash welfare benefits (which are recoverable) for the children, thereby making brother responsible for the cost.

    (it was brothers repsonsibility to see his kids were covered either by him or mom, or both, and that it was done legally)
    "It is easier to build strong children than repair broken men." Frederick Douglas
  2. #17
    mom6stepmom2 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dharic4
    Thats right. The original OP seems to think this woman is somehow scamming the system, however, the ex spouse providing the insurance is actually SAVING money. Most all unpaid medical must be split between the two divorced parties, but if she has a medical card to cover the co-pays then he is lucky he's not getting socked with his share of co-pays. Weather or not he provides the primary Insurance is irrelevant.
    As far as the ssi and child support payments, the ex's child support has nothing to do with the ssi checks she receives for the children. If she is unable to work and gets disability to pay her share, then the ex spouse is still obligated to pay his share by child support. The ssi money coming into her household is her business and her salary for the kids. I read another post on here where the person referred to ssi disability as WELFARE. WRONG!!!!!!
    I worked at my job 13 years and paid into disability benefits just like everyone else and then I became sick and disabled and I am now able to draw off it for myself and the kids. This is NOT welfare. It is NOT income based and child support has NOTHING to do with it. If my ex worked on wall street and paid me 2000 a week in child support, I'd still be entitled to the disability checks for myself and the kids due to the disability. IT IS NOT INCOME BASED and being on disability does not make one loose child support, nor does it release a person from paying support if their kids receive disability on their ex spouse. Your saving money by the ex being on disability and having a medical card for the co-pays so count your blessings and go on with life.
    SSI is very much income based. I have to report my husband's paystubs monthly. If my husband has an increase in pay one month and it's over quidelines then we have an overpayment for that month and it has to be paid back at a rate of 10% of the overpayment. For example, my husband is paid every other Friday. So that causes 2 months out of the year to be over the quidelines. Because he will get 3 paychecks 2 months out of the year. So after I report his paystubs to Social Security, they send me a letter stating we made too much money for normal payment and the overage will be deducted monthly at 10% from future monthly payments until paid back. My son is almost 3 and this has happened many times. Many things are factored into the SSI equation. Rent, utilities, higher education costs for the parents, etc. Children with parents that have a high household income will not qualify for SSI.

    Also, if the household has a high unearned income base (i.e. child support, spousal support, unemployment) the factor is different. My husband was laid off from his job and was on umemployment for 1 year. During that time my son's SSI payments were only $25 per month. When my husband went back to work the monthly payment went up to the full SSI payment. The only thing that changed from the time of unemployment to full time job, was the income went from unearned income to earned income.
    Last edited by mom6stepmom2; 06-12-2005 at 06:42 PM.
  3. #18
    angel1997 is offline Junior Member
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    kentucky

    If the mother lives with a guy who makes $25 an hour will his income be used to determine the SSI a child gets that doesn't belong to him. The child recieves child support of $600 a month plus get SSI to I believe it is $400. The mother is unemployed lives with her boyfriend and has a child with him.
    Last edited by angel1997; 06-12-2005 at 10:06 PM.
  4. #19
    mom6stepmom2 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by angel1997
    kentucky

    If the mother lives with a guy who makes $25 an hour will his income be used to determine the SSI a child gets that doesn't belong to him. The child recieves child support of $600 a month plus get SSI to I believe it is $400. The mother is unemployed lives with her boyfriend and has a child with him.
    I think your best course of action is to call the Social Security office. Either the local number or the 800 number and simply ask them. I have to call my local office occationally and the person answering the phone will answer my pointed questions and my hypothetical question too. My parents live in the same house with my family and their income is not factored into my income. Everything is seperate. So I really don't know if a boyfriend's income would be a factor or not. I think that if he is helping to support the mother and child, then yes it would be a factor. Is he paying the rent, utilities, buying food that is being shared with mom and child, etc? If she did not declare him as a resident in the home to SSI, that could be a problem for her.
  5. #20
    haiku is offline Senior Member
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    while on a mission to shoot down the mother of your S/O's children, do try to take care of where your feet are......
    Last edited by haiku; 06-13-2005 at 05:14 AM.
    "It is easier to build strong children than repair broken men." Frederick Douglas
  6. #21
    LdiJ is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by angel1997
    kentucky

    If the mother lives with a guy who makes $25 an hour will his income be used to determine the SSI a child gets that doesn't belong to him. The child recieves child support of $600 a month plus get SSI to I believe it is $400. The mother is unemployed lives with her boyfriend and has a child with him.
    SSI is not welfare nor does it work like welfare. Her boyfriend's income is completely irrelevant.
  7. #22
    mom6stepmom2 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by angel1997
    kentucky

    If the mother lives with a guy who makes $25 an hour will his income be used to determine the SSI a child gets that doesn't belong to him. The child recieves child support of $600 a month plus get SSI to I believe it is $400. The mother is unemployed lives with her boyfriend and has a child with him.
    This is straight from the SSI website. According to what I posted here, SSI is completely income based. The more countable income your household has the less your benefit will be. If your income is too high you will not qualify.

    According to website, if mom's boyfriend is paying bills (utilities, rent/mortgage, food, etc.) then it is considered countable income to mom and child on SSI and can effect child's SSI payment. But this may also be the reason child is only receiving $400 vs. the full $579.
    Website is [url]www.ssa.gov[/url]



    Earned Income is wages or earnings from self–employment and certain royalties and honoraria.


    Unearned Income is any income you receive other than wages or earnings from self–employment such as Social Security benefits, pensions, State disability payments, unemployment benefits, interest income, and cash from friends and relatives.

    In–Kind Income is food or shelter that you get for free or less than its fair market value.

    Deemed Income is the part of the income of your spouse, your
    parent(s) with whom you live, or your sponsor (if you are an alien), which we use to compute your SSI benefit amount.


    WHY IS INCOME IMPORTANT IN THE SSI PROGRAM?


    Generally, the more income you have, the less your SSI benefit will be. If your countable income is over the allowable limit, you cannot receive SSI benefits. Some of your income may not count as income for the SSI program.


    WHAT INCOME DOES NOT COUNT FOR SSI?


    Examples of payments or services we do not count as income for the SSI program include but are not limited to:



    the first $20 of most income received in a month;

    the first $65 of earnings and one–half of earnings over $65 received in a month;

    the value of food stamps;

    income tax refunds;

    home energy assistance;

    assistance based on need funded by a State or local government;

    small amounts of income received irregularly or infrequently;

    interest or dividends earned on countable resources or resources excluded under other Federal laws (effective July 1, 2004);

    grants, scholarships, fellowships or gifts used for tuition and educational expenses (effective June 1, 2004);

    food or shelter based on need provided by nonprofit agencies;

    loans to you (cash or in–kind) that you have to repay;

    money someone else spends to pay your expenses for items other than food or shelter (e.g., someone pays your telephone or medical bills);

    income set aside under a Plan to Achieve Self–Support (PASS). See the SSI Spotlight on Plans to Achieve Self–Support.

    earnings up to $1,410 per month to a maximum of $5,670 per year (effective January 2005) for a student under age 22. See the SSI Spotlight on Student Earned Income Exclusion.

    gifts of clothing;

    the value of impairment–related work expenses for items or services that a disabled person needs in order to work. See the SSI Spotlight on Impairment–Related Work Expenses.

    the value of work expenses that a blind person incurs in order to work. See the SSI Spotlight on Special SSI Rule for Blind People Who Work.



    HOW DOES YOUR INCOME AFFECT YOUR SSI BENEFIT?


    Step 1: We subtract any income that we do not count from your total gross income. The remaining amount is your "countable income".

    Step 2: We subtract your "countable income" from the SSI Federal benefit rate. The result is your monthly SSI benefit as follows:

    1) Your Total Income
    -Your income that we do not count
    =Your countable income

    2) SSI Federal benefit rate
    -Your countable income
    =Your SSI Federal benefit


    THE FOLLOWING EXAMPLES ARE BASED ON SAMPLE
    DOLLAR AMOUNTS:


    EXAMPLE A – SSI Federal Benefit with UNEARNED INCOME


    Total monthly income = $300 (Social Security benefit)

    1) $300 (Social Security benefit)
    -20 (Not counted)
    =$280 (Countable income)

    2) $579 (SSI Federal benefit rate)
    -280 (Countable income)
    =$299 (SSI benefit)


    EXAMPLE B – SSI Federal Benefit with EARNED INCOME


    Total monthly income = $317 (Gross wages)

    1) $317 (Gross wages)
    -20 (Not counted)
    $297
    -65 (Not counted)
    $232 divided by 1/2
    =$116 (Countable income)

    2) $579 (SSI Federal benefit rate)
    -116 (Countable income)
    =$463 (SSI benefit)


    EXAMPLE C – SSI Federal Benefit and STATE SUPPLEMENT with UNEARNED INCOME


    The facts are the same as example A, but federally administered State supplementation is involved.

    1) $300 (Social Security benefit)
    -20 (Not counted)
    =$280 (Countable income)

    2) $579 (SSI Federal benefit rate)
    -280 (Countable Income)
    =$299 (SSI Federal benefit)

    3) $299 (SSI Federal benefit)
    +15 (State supplement payment for an individual living alone)
    =$314 (Total Federal and State SSI benefit)


    EXAMPLE D – SSI Federal Benefit and STATE SUPPLEMENT with EARNED INCOME


    Total monthly income = $317 (Gross wages)

    1) $317 (Gross wages)
    -20 (Not counted)
    $297
    -65 (Not counted)
    $232 divided by 1/2
    =$116 (Countable income)

    2) $579 (SSI Federal benefit rate)
    -116 (Countable Income)
    =$463 (SSI Federal benefit)

    3) $463 (SSI Federal benefit)
    +15 (State supplement payment for an individual living alone)
    =$478 (Total Federal and State SSI benefit)


    For information on how your living arrangement affects your SSI benefit, see LIVING ARRANGEMENTS.



    WHEN DOES DEEMED INCOME APPLY?



    When a person who is eligible for SSI benefits lives with a spouse who is not eligible for SSI benefits, we may count some of the spouse's income in figuring the SSI benefit.

    When a disabled or blind child under age 18 lives with parent(s), and at least one parent does not receive SSI benefits, we may count some of the parents' income in figuring the child's SSI benefit.

    When an alien has a sponsor, we may count some or all of the sponsor's income in figuring the SSI benefit.


    WHEN DOES DEEMED INCOME NOT APPLY?

    When you no longer live with a spouse or parent.

    When a disabled or blind child reaches age 18.

    When an alien's sponsorship ends.



    See SSI RESOURCES and SSI FOR CHILDREN for more information on deeming to children. Also see the SSI Spotlight on Deeming Parental Income and Resources.





    Back Top Next

    THIS INFORMATION IS GENERAL. FOR MORE INFORMATION, CALL 1-800-772-1213 (TTY 1-800-325-0778), OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL SOCIAL SECURITY OFFICE.


    Privacy Policy | Accessibility Policy | Linking Policy | Site Map

    WHY IS MY LIVING ARRANGEMENT IMPORTANT?


    Your living arrangement is another factor used to determine how much SSI you can get.

    This means your SSI benefits may vary depending on where you live:


    in your own place such as a house, apartment, or mobile home; or

    in someone else's household; or

    in a group care or board and care facility; or

    in an institution.



    For more information on living arrangements, see the SSI Spotlight on Living Arrangements.




    We may reduce your SSI benefits because of your living arrangements when you:


    live in another person's house, apartment, or mobile home, and you pay less than your fair share of your food or housing costs;

    live in your own house, apartment, or mobile home, and someone else pays for all or part of your food, rent or mortgage, or other things like electricity and garbage removal;

    are in a hospital or nursing home for the whole month and Medicaid pays for over one–half of the bill;

    are a minor child and private insurance and Medicaid together pay over half your bill; or

    are in an institution run by a Federal, State, or local government for the whole month. (In most government institutions, you cannot get any SSI benefits unless Medicaid is paying more than one–half of your bills).



    If you will be in a medical institution for 90 days or less, you may be able to receive your regular SSI benefit. See the SSI Spotlight on Continued Benefits for Persons Who are Temporarily Institutionalized.


    You may also wish to see our regulations for "In–Kind Support and Maintenance," beginning with 20 CFR 416.1130 and continuing through 20 CFR 416.1149, which include rules about living arrangements.

    Sections 2141–2145. and 2147 in Chapter 21 of the Social Security Handbook also cover the same subjects.


    WHAT IF YOU ARE HOMELESS?


    We figure your benefit amount the same as a person who lives in his own house, apartment, or mobile home.

    CAN YOU RECEIVE SSI BENEFITS WHILE LIVING IN A
    PUBLIC SHELTER FOR THE HOMELESS?


    Yes. You can receive up to the maximum SSI benefit payable in your State while living in a public shelter for up to six months out of any nine month period.

    WHERE WILL YOU GET YOUR SSI BENEFITS IF YOU DON'T
    HAVE AN ADDRESS?


    You don't need an address to get SSI benefits. We will make arrangements to pay you.



    For more information on how we can help you when you are homeless, see the SSI Spotlight on Homelessness.

    Also, please visit our web site at: [url]www.socialsecurity.gov/homelessness[/url].
    Last edited by mom6stepmom2; 06-13-2005 at 09:10 PM.
  8. #23
    dharic4 is offline Junior Member
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    Mom6,
    Perhaps it depends on if you are drawing disability based on YOUR OWN past earnings - or your husbands.
    I receive 332 per WEEK in child support from my ex husband and I draw 862 per month for disability totally separate from him as it is basaed on MY PRIOR earnings only. My children receive disability based on MY earnings. My child support actually just went down from almost 2,000 per month due to a change in my ex husbands emplyment.
    The only time my disability benefits can be lowered is if I have EARNED income such as from a paying job. Child support income has no bearing on the amount of disability I receive.
    You say your payments go down when your husband makes more in a month - That to me tells me that you are somehow drawing off of HIS disability from HIS past earned income - and not solely your own.
    Am I correct?
  9. #24
    dharic4 is offline Junior Member
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    Mom6 - I went to the website and I see the problem.
    you are posting the guidelines for SSI (supplemental income) - this is income based and provides a small amount to supplement a persons disability check (usually 7-12 dollars a month and a few more benefits)

    You need to look at the guidelines for SSDI (social security disability) - These are the benefits paid to a disabled worker and their family members - they are NOT income based.

    if a person sustains an injury or illness where they are no longer able to work, they are not summoned to live in poverty the rest of their lives. they are paid an income based on how many years and the amounts they paid in SSI taxes while they were employed. Other household income does not affect straight disability payments. If there is a high household income you just won't be eligible to receive the small supplement perks, but your main disability check is not affected.
  10. #25
    LdiJ is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dharic4
    Mom6 - I went to the website and I see the problem.
    you are posting the guidelines for SSI (supplemental income) - this is income based and provides a small amount to supplement a persons disability check (usually 7-12 dollars a month and a few more benefits)

    You need to look at the guidelines for SSDI (social security disability) - These are the benefits paid to a disabled worker and their family members - they are NOT income based.

    if a person sustains an injury or illness where they are no longer able to work, they are not summoned to live in poverty the rest of their lives. they are paid an income based on how many years and the amounts they paid in SSI taxes while they were employed. Other household income does not affect straight disability payments. If there is a high household income you just won't be eligible to receive the small supplement perks, but your main disability check is not affected.
    I agree that mom6septmom2 posted the wrong information...but you are hitting the wrong thing too.

    SSI for children is a separate program from SSI for adults. She posted the information for the SSI for adults program rather than for kids. The mom in this case isn't drawing SSDI.
  11. #26
    dharic4 is offline Junior Member
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    ok yup your right I see that. I draw SSDI Disability benefits based on my own earnings and my kids also receive checks based on my earnings, and I know there is no income limit to my household. I can receive other income such as child support, spouse, etc etc with no limitations.
    It looks like mom6 is drawing straight SSI - which is income based - not disability -
    Ok just wanted to clear that up. SSDI and SSI are separate different programs.
  12. #27
    mom6stepmom2 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by angel1997
    What is the name of your state? kentucky

    My question is how can a mother draw ssi on a child and receive a child support check of $600 a month? She is also receiving a medical card on the child and the father pays child support and has insurance through his work on the child. How can I get this investagated or can she do this...
    The reason I posted what was on the SSI website is because this person is saying the child is receiving SSI. A child cannot receive SSDI. The person went on to say in another reply that the child is receiving $400 per month in SSI benefits. The information I posted does apply to the child. The section that talks about deemed income. That would be the income of the parents of a child on SSI. The reason I know what I am talking about on this is because my 2 1/2 year old son has Down syndrome. Down syndrome is recognized as a disability from birth apon diagnosis according to SSI rules. He has been receiving SSI since birth. My income is deemed to him. Just as the custodial parent's income of the child talked about in the post would be.

    I would assume since the person never said, that the child must be disabled in some way. Otherwise it would not be eligable for SSI. But anyway I went ahead and posted the SSI section on children receiving SSI.



    WHO IS A "CHILD" FOR SSI?


    A person who is neither married nor (as determined by Social Security) head of a household and:


    is under age 18; or

    is under age 22 and (as determined by Social Security) is a student regularly attending school.

    HOW DOES THE SSI DISABILITY PROGRAM WORK FOR A
    CHILD?


    To be eligible for SSI benefits, a child must be either blind or disabled.


    A child may be eligible for SSI benefits based on disability from the date of birth; there is no minimum age requirement.

    A child may be eligible for SSI benefits based on disability until attainment of age 18 (see definition of disability for children).

    At age 18, we evaluate a person's impairments based on the definition of disability for adults (see definition of disability for adults).

    At any age, a person with a visual impairment may be eligible for SSI benefits based on blindness if the impairment meets the definition of blindness (see the discussion of statutory blindness).

    WHAT IS THE CRITERIA FOR A "DISABLED" OR "BLIND"
    CHILD?


    If under age 18, whether or not married or head of household, the child has a physical or mental condition or conditions that can be medically proven and which result in marked and severe functional limitations; and

    The condition(s) must have lasted or be expected to last at least 12 months or end in death; or

    If the child is blind, the same definition of blind applies as for adults. See WHAT IS "BLINDNESS" FOR AN ADULT OR CHILD?.


    HOW DOES DEEMING WORK FOR A CHILD?


    If a child is under age 18, not married, and lives at home with parents who do not receive SSI benefits, we may consider a portion of the parents' income and/or resources as if they were available to the child. We call this deeming.

    We make deductions from deemed income for parents and for other children living in the home. After we subtract these deductions, we use the remaining amount to decide if the child meets the SSI income and resource requirements for a monthly benefit.


    For more information, see the SSI Spotlight on Deeming Parental Income and Resources.


    WHEN DOES DEEMING NOT APPLY?


    Deeming stops when a child reaches age 18 or no longer lives with a parent.

    Deeming does not apply, and we may pay up to $30 plus the applicable State supplement when:


    a disabled child received a reduced SSI benefit while in a medical treatment facility; and

    the child is eligible for Medicaid under a State home care plan; and

    deeming would otherwise cause ineligibility for SSI benefits.

    Also, we do not consider the income of a parent for deeming purposes if the parent receives a Public Income Maintenance (PIM) payment such as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) and their other income was used to compute the PIM payment.


    See SSI AND ELIGIBILITY FOR OTHER GOVERNMENT AND STATE PROGRAMS for information on TANF.

    If either child or parent is temporarily absent from the household (less than 60 days), the rules about deemed income still apply.


    CAN A CHILD GET MEDICAID?


    In most States, a child who gets SSI benefits can get Medicaid to help pay medical bills.

    In some cases, a child may be eligible for Medicaid while in an institution, but not be eligible when living at home either because of the parents' income and resources or because of other income.

    At the State's option, children under age 18 who need institutional–level care and live at home may keep Medicaid eligibility while getting home care, if that care is less costly to the government.

    Even if the child is not eligible for SSI benefits, the child still may be eligible for Medicaid under other State rules. Always check on Medicaid eligibility with the State.

    For more information about Medicaid, you can look on the Internet on the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services webpage at [url]http://cms.hhs.gov/medicaid/[/url] or call toll–free, 1–877–267–2323.

    In addition, other State services may also be available.

    If you have children or grandchildren under age 19 who are not covered by health insurance, there is a Children's Health Insurance Program that may help. To find out more, you can look on the Internet at [url]http://www.insurekidsnow.gov[/url] or call, toll–free, 1–877–KIDS–NOW (1–877–543–7669). The number connects you to your State program.


    CHILDREN OF ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL LIVING OVERSEAS


    Children living with a parent in the military service overseas may receive SSI benefits, but they are not eligible for Medicaid.


    For more information, see the SSI Spotlight on Special SSI Rules for Children of Military Personnel Living Overseas.


    WHAT IS A DEDICATED ACCOUNT?


    When an eligible child under age 18, who has a representative payee, is eligible for certain large past–due payments covering more than six months of benefits, these payments must be paid directly into a separate account in a financial institution.

    We call this separate account a dedicated account because the representative payee, or later the child, may use the funds in this account only for certain expenses, primarily those related to the child's disability. You must maintain the dedicated account separately from any other savings or checking account set up for the child. Each year, we will monitor how you spend the funds in the dedicated account.


    For more information, see the SSI Spotlight on Dedicated Accounts for Children.


    DEEMING ELIGIBILITY GUIDELINES


    The Deeming Eligibility Chart for Children, see below, gives the highest amount of gross monthly income for this year (before taxes are withheld) that a parent(s) can earn or receive and still have a child qualify for SSI benefits.

    Note that we do not count some types of income that a parent may receive. For example, we do not count money received for providing foster care to an ineligible child.


    For more information on income, see SSI INCOME.



    DEEMING ELIGIBILITY CHART FOR CHILDREN FOR 2005


    CAUTION:Before using this chart, see SSI FOR CHILDREN. If there is any doubt about whether a child is eligible, please contact us for help.

    Deeming
    Eligibility
    for Children Gross monthly income BELOW the dollar amounts* shown means a disabled child may be eligible for SSI benefits.

    * Amounts given are general guidelines only.
    Number of
    ineligible
    children in
    household All income is earned All income is unearned
    One parent in
    household Two parents in
    household One parent in
    household Two parents in
    household
    0 $ 2,441 $ 3,021 $ 1,198 $ 1,488
    1 $ 2,731 $ 3,311 $ 1,488 $ 1,778
    2 $ 3,021 $ 3,601 $ 1,778 $ 2,068
    3 $ 3,311 $ 3,891 $ 2,068 $ 2,358
    4 $ 3,601 $ 4,181 $ 2,358 $ 2,648
    5 $ 3,891 $ 4,471 $ 2,648 $ 2,938
    6 $ 4,181 $ 4,781 $ 2,938 $ 3,228


    The Deeming Eligibility Chart for Children does not apply when:


    The parent(s) receives both earned income (e.g., wages or net earnings from self–employment) and unearned income (e.g., Social Security benefits, pensions, unemployment compensation, interest income, and State disability).

    The parent receives a public income maintenance payment such as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), or a needs–based pension from the Department of Veterans Affairs. See SSI AND ELIGIBILITY FOR OTHER GOVERNMENT AND STATE PROGRAMS for more information on TANF.

    The parent pays court–ordered support payments.

    The child has income of his or her own.

    Any ineligible child has income of his or her own, marries, or leaves the home.

    There is more than one disabled child applying for or receiving SSI benefits.

    The State supplements the Federal benefit.


    Use the Deeming Eligibility Chart for Children in the following States or territory, which do not supplement the Federal benefit:

    Alaska Arkansas Delaware District of Columbia
    Florida Georgia Northern Mariana Islands
    Indiana Kansas Maryland Mississippi
    Missouri Ohio South Carolina Tennessee
    Texas Virginia West Virginia

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