Childcare costs not be paid / housing for childcare

[Gypsymomof3]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
I am in New York
Mother of 3
One with special needs

My mom moved in with me after my divorce
She has her own room and she pays for no expenses
In exchange she is my source of childcare

My ex husband is supposed to be paying 1/2 of child care expenses

However since there are no monies exchanged with my mom
(I can't afford to pay her and shelter and feed her)

I can't show receipts of child care costs

My mom is willing to write a letter stating the agreement
And in all honesty she watching is alot less than hourly childcare

Do I come up with the fair value of a room with all utilities and meals
As a way to show the judge in court? Would her letter also suffice

My son cannot just be left with anyone
His needs are great as he is autistic

Please advise how I could satisfy what a judge may want considering
The circumstances

Thank you!

 

[sandyclaus]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
I am in New York
Mother of 3
One with special needs

My mom moved in with me after my divorce
She has her own room and she pays for no expenses
In exchange she is my source of childcare

My ex husband is supposed to be paying 1/2 of child care expenses

However since there are no monies exchanged with my mom
(I can't afford to pay her and shelter and feed her)

I can't show receipts of child care costs

My mom is willing to write a letter stating the agreement
And in all honesty she watching is alot less than hourly childcare

Do I come up with the fair value of a room with all utilities and meals
As a way to show the judge in court? Would her letter also suffice

My son cannot just be left with anyone
His needs are great as he is autistic

Please advise how I could satisfy what a judge may want considering
The circumstances

Thank you!

So, in other words, you let your mom move in for free, and in exchange, she provides your child care.

You aren't paying a dime for your child care. Why should the child's other parent be forced to pay for it if you aren't?

You CHOSE to have your mom move in with you. If you choose not to have her pay for her room and board, that's on you. You can obviously afford to have her live with you in your home without charging her rent to do it.

Does your mom work outside the house?

 

[Rwedunyet]

If OP is providing food, electricity and hot water to her mother then it is costing her something, although the cost may be negligible.

I do recognize that having a special needs child incurs more expense than other children, so perhaps the cost is not negligible.

Also, I'd like to commend the OP for bringing in a family member to care for an autistic child. This is normally much better for the child, in my opinion. And, it would cost dearly to outright pay for the care being provided to this child. I dunno, but I'd think that Dad would be greatful for this arrangement, esp since he is ordered to pay for half of childcare expenses. Perhaps even greatful enough to throw a little extra support that way to help compensate the extra expenses at the grocery store.

But, that's just me. Would a Judge not recognize this at all? (not meant snarky, just an honest question)

 

[Ohiogal]

If OP is providing food, electricity and hot water to her mother then it is costing her something, although the cost may be negligible.

I do recognize that having a special needs child incurs more expense than other children, so perhaps the cost is not negligible.

Also, I'd like to commend the OP for bringing in a family member to care for an autistic child. This is normally much better for the child, in my opinion. And, it would cost dearly to outright pay for the care being provided to this child. I dunno, but I'd think that Dad would be greatful for this arrangement, esp since he is ordered to pay for half of childcare expenses. Perhaps even greatful enough to throw a little extra support that way to help compensate the extra expenses at the grocery store.

But, that's just me. Would a Judge not recognize this at all? (not meant snarky, just an honest question)

Nope. There is no actual daycare charge. Hence, why should dad have to pay mom to reimburse her that expense? Food/electricity and what not for the children are already considered in child support. Daycare is normally extra.

 

[LdiJ]

Basically...there are two ways of handling this. Its either family helping family and therefore no costs are involved for any of the parties (which means that no costs can be recouped from the non custodial parent), or its a true business arrangement.

It its a true business arrangement then it needs to be handled as such. Grandma needs to be paid a wage or be paid as an independent contract if she watches more children than just her grandchildren (with all of the necessary business and tax reporting) and grandma need to pay fair market value rent (with all of the necessary tax reporting).

Now, admittedly family court generally is NOT going to dig deep enough into things to make sure that everybody is reporting everything as they should tax wise, but family court would definitely require that you prove that you are actually paying grandma for daycare services...and not by bartering room and board, but by cold, hard, cash.

 

[cbg]

Not quite on point to the poster's question, but this might possibly provide some relevant information.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p503.pdf

 

[Gypsymomof3]

Thank you for your replies

Mom cannot work heavily
She provides supervision

My mom cannot afford to live on her own
With her limited social security

So instead of charging mom rent
She instead is providing me with childcare

I otherwise would be charging her rent or living in a smaller apt

It serves neither me nor my ex husband
To pay for hourly child care
As it would certainly exceed what extra "housing " costs
(For her own room for her meals fore her share of utilities
) which equates to about 600 a month

Still is less than what hourly child care is

i would like the judge to take it into considerations
To make his own fair determination
Since the monthly support is so low


He is supposed to take the children according to our agreement
But he doesn't . I know
Its not against the law to be an uninvolved dad
However our agreement states I am supposed to charge him for childcare and he is supposed to reimburse me if we had to secure childcare when he decides not to come and take them

But I can't afford child care and taking care of the 3 children and mom and the housing costs
(Believe me we live modestly)

Husband is paying an unfair child support
As the percentage was not based on all his income
Because he has an all cash business on the side
And works off the books with this side business
I cannot afford to pay an attorney to investigate and do a financial audit to
Show he is not disclosing all his income
He drives his BMW and pays 1500 for three kids
That's all
(I do incur and have all receipts for summer
camp as my mother is not here in summers)

He Does not adhere to paying half of the medical or other things he is supposed pay 1/2 of
He is in violation of the agreement
Anyhow, I am going in for enforcement as well as review and modification
Of support
My income has decreased by 1/2 over the past 3 years
An I am having to pick up the slack financially
His support is just not enough
I have not been in front of a judge before with him

We did this "deal" with two attorneys and I guess my attorney wasn't aggressive or thorough enough

Anyhow when I go to try and get a justification of increase
(Based on income reduction etc, as all as showing the judge the existence of this corportions th he has on the side
I wanted to also have the judge tale into account that he "taking advantage"

That my mother is there and is watching our children for a "living agreement

Thank you

 

[Ohiogal]

Thank you for your replies

Mom cannot work heavily
She provides supervision

My mom cannot afford to live on her own
With her limited social security

So instead of charging mom rent
She instead is providing me with childcare

I otherwise would be charging her rent or living in a smaller apt

It serves neither me nor my ex husband
To pay for hourly child care
As it would certainly exceed what extra "housing " costs
(For her own room for her meals fore her share of utilities
) which equates to about 600 a month

Still is less than what hourly child care is

i would like the judge to take it into considerations
To make his own fair determination
Since the monthly support is so low


He is supposed to take the children according to our agreement
But he doesn't . I know
Its not against the law to be an uninvolved dad
However our agreement states I am supposed to charge him for childcare and he is supposed to reimburse me if we had to secure childcare when he decides not to come and take them

But I can't afford child care and taking care of the 3 children and mom and the housing costs
(Believe me we live modestly)

Husband is paying an unfair child support
As the percentage was not based on all his income
Because he has an all cash business on the side
And works off the books with this side business
I cannot afford to pay an attorney to investigate and do a financial audit to
Show he is not disclosing all his income
He drives his BMW and pays 1500 for three kids
That's all
(I do incur and have all receipts for summer
camp as my mother is not here in summers)

He Does not adhere to paying half of the medical or other things he is supposed pay 1/2 of
He is in violation of the agreement
Anyhow, I am going in for enforcement as well as review and modification
Of support
My income has decreased by 1/2 over the past 3 years
An I am having to pick up the slack financially
His support is just not enough
I have not been in front of a judge before with him

We did this "deal" with two attorneys and I guess my attorney wasn't aggressive or thorough enough

Anyhow when I go to try and get a justification of increase
(Based on income reduction etc, as all as showing the judge the existence of this corportions th he has on the side
I wanted to also have the judge tale into account that he "taking advantage"

That my mother is there and is watching our children for a "living agreement

Thank you

The judge is not going to require dad to pay you to support your mother or for your lack of costs for child care. Use your summer charges that you can hopefully prove. Why did your income decrease? Are you working fewer hours? Did you change jobs? YOu might be determined to be voluntarily underemployed. The fact that you can't prove what he earns is your downfall. But the judge is not going to consider your mother living with you as something dad has to help fund. Support is NOT supposed to be income for you. It is supposed to be a reimbursement. If you can't make it on your income, you need a new job or another job. You are the one who seems to be wanting to take advantage. Work with the facts that you have -- subpoena his income tax records. Use your W2s and your actual child care expenses in summer. Use the fact that he is not exercising all of his time. But don't push fictitious expenses as though they matter.

Your mother providing care does NOT matter in regards to child support.

 

[LdiJ]

The judge is not going to require dad to pay you to support your mother or for your lack of costs for child care. Use your summer charges that you can hopefully prove. Why did your income decrease? Are you working fewer hours? Did you change jobs? YOu might be determined to be voluntarily underemployed. The fact that you can't prove what he earns is your downfall. But the judge is not going to consider your mother living with you as something dad has to help fund. Support is NOT supposed to be income for you. It is supposed to be a reimbursement. If you can't make it on your income, you need a new job or another job. You are the one who seems to be wanting to take advantage. Work with the facts that you have -- subpoena his income tax records. Use your W2s and your actual child care expenses in summer. Use the fact that he is not exercising all of his time. But don't push fictitious expenses as though they matter.

Your mother providing care does NOT matter in regards to child support.

I don't necessarily agree with you at all...Refer back to my previous post.

 

[single317dad]

What will OP do when grandma moves out and a jobless boyfriend moves in? Will he now be the one providing child care in exchange for room and board?

Expecting Dad to pay nonexistent child care costs is ridiculous. Next, you'll want him to pay for professional orthodontia while your cousin fashions some braces out of fence wire in the garage. Maybe you should have grandma home school the kids and let Dad pay her for private tutoring while you're at it.

 

[Proserpina]

NY takes a straight percentage of the NCP's income.

Mom's earnings aren't going to matter - Dad's not going to be paying more simply because her hours are reduced.

 

[Ohiogal]

I don't necessarily agree with you at all...Refer back to my previous post.

And based on OP's post there is no cold hard cash being exchanged. Hence it doesn't matter. End of story.

 

[sandyclaus]

Thank you for your replies

Mom cannot work heavily
She provides supervision

My mom cannot afford to live on her own
With her limited social security

So instead of charging mom rent
She instead is providing me with childcare

I otherwise would be charging her rent or living in a smaller apt

It serves neither me nor my ex husband
To pay for hourly child care
As it would certainly exceed what extra "housing " costs
(For her own room for her meals fore her share of utilities
) which equates to about 600 a month

Still is less than what hourly child care is

i would like the judge to take it into considerations
To make his own fair determination
Since the monthly support is so low


He is supposed to take the children according to our agreement
But he doesn't . I know
Its not against the law to be an uninvolved dad
However our agreement states I am supposed to charge him for childcare and he is supposed to reimburse me if we had to secure childcare when he decides not to come and take them

But I can't afford child care and taking care of the 3 children and mom and the housing costs
(Believe me we live modestly)

Husband is paying an unfair child support
As the percentage was not based on all his income
Because he has an all cash business on the side
And works off the books with this side business
I cannot afford to pay an attorney to investigate and do a financial audit to
Show he is not disclosing all his income
He drives his BMW and pays 1500 for three kids
That's all
(I do incur and have all receipts for summer
camp as my mother is not here in summers)

He Does not adhere to paying half of the medical or other things he is supposed pay 1/2 of
He is in violation of the agreement
Anyhow, I am going in for enforcement as well as review and modification
Of support
My income has decreased by 1/2 over the past 3 years
An I am having to pick up the slack financially
His support is just not enough
I have not been in front of a judge before with him

We did this "deal" with two attorneys and I guess my attorney wasn't aggressive or thorough enough

Anyhow when I go to try and get a justification of increase
(Based on income reduction etc, as all as showing the judge the existence of this corportions th he has on the side
I wanted to also have the judge tale into account that he "taking advantage"

That my mother is there and is watching our children for a "living agreement

Thank you

Why has your income been cut in half over the last 3 years? Do you live in the same apartment as you did before your mother came to live with you? Have you changed jobs? Hours cut? Started going to school?

Seems to me that if your mother is unable to afford to support herself, you can't afford to support her either. Of course, if you can justify her living there by calling her your "live-in childcare provider" and getting Dad to foot the bill, then you've solved that problem. But that IS the problem. If you're already struggling to live on your own with your 3 kids, then you should be cutting your expenses, NOT taking on additional expenses of having your low-income mother come and add to the household expenses.

While I applaud your wanting to take Mom in to help her out, it shouldn't be at Dad's expense. I am still quite convinced that your trying to figure out a way to get BMW-driving Dad to pay for your choice to have your mother come and live with you. I also have a difficult time believing that a woman who cannot "work heavily" is going to be all that efficient at watching all 3 kids, especially with one autistic child - they tend to require far more supervision and care than other kids, and your mother just isn't physically capable of doing a sufficient job at it. I also believe that sooner than later, you'll find it necessary to pay for even MORE child care expenses in order to supplement the very minimal supervision that your mother can provide - and when that happens, you'll be going right back to court with your hand out and demanding even MORE child support to cover that.

I'm just not buying what you're selling here, OP.

 

[Gypsymomof3]

I really thank everyone for clarifying all these things
As afar as factual
I see where I may be going amiss

I will start paying mom
This way he would indeed have to pay me
1/2 of that
And mom will then Pay me back
So I can pay the bills and still have quality
Child care

(As well as everyone having to file what they need to)

This will allow my children to have chore. They need
And he will finally pay for the chi are that's being provided

And mom will then give me money for her room and board

As far as my job, my organization and small business I own
Took a hit during the economy
I do have two jobs
I am certainly not underemployed
And interestingly enough
I am hoping the judge will perhaps request the same of my ex

I will certainly take all my receipts from the
Camps and such
What about grocery bills , rent and utility bills
Will that also be helpful in requesting
A higher support?
Thanks again!

Why has your income been cut in half over the last 3 years? Do you live in the same apartment as you did before your mother came to live with you? Have you changed jobs? Hours cut? Started going to school?

Seems to me that if your mother is unable to afford to support herself, you can't afford to support her either. Of course, if you can justify her living there by calling her your "live-in childcare provider" and getting Dad to foot the bill, then you've solved that problem. But that IS the problem. If you're already struggling to live on your own with your 3 kids, then you should be cutting your expenses, NOT taking on additional expenses of having your low-income mother come and add to the household expenses.

While I applaud your wanting to take Mom in to help her out, it shouldn't be at Dad's expense. I am still quite convinced that your trying to figure out a way to get BMW-driving Dad to pay for your choice to have your mother come and live with you. I also have a difficult time believing that a woman who cannot "work heavily" is going to be all that efficient at watching all 3 kids, especially with one autistic child - they tend to require far more supervision and care than other kids, and your mother just isn't physically capable of doing a sufficient job at it. I also believe that sooner than later, you'll find it necessary to pay for even MORE child care expenses in order to supplement the very minimal supervision that your mother can provide - and when that happens, you'll be going right back to court with your hand out and demanding even MORE child support to cover that.

I'm just not buying what you're selling here, OP.

 

[Gypsymomof3]

I am not selling anything

Supporting mom In exchange for childcare not only provides me better childcare (and yes he does have tutors from the school that I advocate and he for him as well as respite hours to get him the support my mom can't)
I don't pay for those things thankfully

If I had to pay for someone a dollar amount for what she watches them hourly
It would cost atleast 450 a week

I can't afford that neither can he
So offering /supporting my mother for a cost of about 700 a month
To me is best for my children
And financially less of a burden for my ex and myself

Noone is "selling "anything

I am trying to provide for my children effectively and cost efficiently
What's the problem with that