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Child's Father Says He Spoke To Lawyer, Are His Claims True?

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l_c

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

8-year-old child. Receiving $400/mo in support that started 6 years ago. The father told me yesterday he makes almost $19/hr, although previous claims have always had me thinking he makes closer to $22 or $23/hr. I know he was making $19/hr YEARS ago, and works for the union and has told me about raises a couple times now. But really I have no solid info on this. So I know pretty much nothing about the way the child support/visitation/custody works. When my daughter was 2, I got assistance with daycare for a short while until I no longer qualified for it. I think because of this, the state went after the father for support, made him pay back the daycare costs to them, and started taking $100/wk out of check and send to me. He is very bitter about the money and does not think I deserve it, he says. QUESTION: Does seeing the child have anything to do w/ the money? He barely see his child, and flakes out a lot. I've never filed for sole custody, so I think by WA standards, we have joint....but seeing as I get child support for her, does that mean I DO have sole? Someone in law enforcement told me once that if he takes her, he can legally have her because I don't have sole/full. I know a lot of you on here would probably recommend I go through the courts to get this set in stone, but in my personal experience and thinking, I prefer to avoid court for anything at all costs. I have ZERO fear of him taking her.

Lately, he's been telling me that he's been paying a lawyer $120/hr, who has told him he is paying me too much money (Said it would be reduced to $200 if he took me to court), 1 because I'm married now, 2 because he has a kid, and 3 because his expenses have now changed. At the time we first got child support, I had a job I was making pretty good money at, and I remember the court specifically saying my support amount went down because of my job. They had originally had it somewhere between 500-600, I don't remember exactly how much, because they initially thought I wasn't working. He said when child support was first finalized, he was living with his mom paying no rent, and that's why the support amount was the amount it was, but now he pays rent. (I think he rents a room in a house...Not even a place his children can go..although he says he's getting his own place next month. I asked him how a lawyer would be able to tell him the amount he should be paying...Wouldn't they need income info about me and my husband? He told me they had it. (I don't see HOW). I also told him I thought this kind of thing was on an individual basis and up to a judge. He ended the conversation saying that I don't need to worry about it, he doesn't care about the money, which was confusing because it certainly seems like he cares. I'M the one that doesn't care. I don't want to be harassed by him with this kind of stuff. He also sent me a parenting plan that he said he was going to file. In it, he asks for her every other weekend. I don't have a problem with that. What I don't like is that he immediately wants to go to the court before ever asking me to set up a plan. I will work with him no problem, I would LOVE if he saw her more. We agreed we'd try it on our own before involving the courts.

Sorry this is so long, but I have one other issue. So my husband and I are in the process of moving, only 30 minutes away, but the house has not been ready when it was supposed to, and we've found ourselves having to stay in a hotel. To top it off, our 2nd car breaks down at the same time. I muster up the nerve to ask the father if he could have our daughter for a few nights and take her to school until we get into the house. (I would NOT have done this if I had any other option, so trust me when I say there really was no other, apart from keeping her home from school). To my surprise, he says sure, no problem I explained the situation and he seemed surprisingly understanding. (It is usually hell to get him to see her. He even asks me for gas money the few times he's ever picked her up from school. He is NOT broke). We were just informed it will be yet one more day til we can get into the house. I tell him this and he flips out on me. It hurts my feelings that it bothers him so much to have the child. He tells me it is unfair that I am getting child support while he has the child for 3 days, that he's keeping record of this and will make court make us pay back the money he owes us. I told him I haven't even touched the child support money for this week. He makes it seem like I'm living off his money or something. He's SO angry about it, it's ridiculous. He says he is going to keep a record of every time he has her, and go through the courts to make my husband and I pay back the money for the time's he's had her and his expenses. Now the times he has her amount to like 3 hours at his smoke-filled mom's house and a disgusting McD's happy meal for my daughter. If this is the law, that's fine with me, he can have his money back. But is it? He also said the lawyer told him that he can SUE me for back child support. Is this true or possible? He said he has paid back child support because I told the court for the 1st 2 years of her life, he didn't help out. (That is not true, we were living together the first 2 years of her life, and I've never lie to the courts). I've never received any back child support. Is there any way this is true? Any other insight, advice would be great. I'm sick of this guy scaring me. He's come at me like this out of nowhere just this past week, I've never really heard this stuff from him before. I really don't care about the money, even thought of course it does help. My child does extracurricular activities we probably wouldn't be able to afford otherwise.

Additionally, if I do end up in court, what advice can you give me? This is the last night she's spending with him. He's known all week that she has piano practice after school today, I made sure and gave him the details about it and he just told me she is skipping that today. There is no reason for her to skip other than he is an a**hole. Her piano lessons are expensive and his money does help pay for it....How much could he possibly care when he does something like this? Is this something to mention if I go to court? This whole situation breaks my heart for someone to be so horrible and vindictive and none of it is out of real love or care for the child. She loves her lessons and even told me she wants to go more often. :( Why do people do this kind of stuff?
 


Piano lessons are not essential items. Seriously.

He should be paying according to WA state guidelines - these are very easily found online.

He cannot sue you for back child support based upon the (lack of) reasoning you've given. He's blowing smoke. In future, if he contacts you and tells you what his imaginary lawyer has said, ask him to get his lawyer to contact you directly.

That will do one of two things. He'll either shut up and leave it alone, or you'll have legitimate contact with his attorney. Win/win.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

QUESTION: Does seeing the child have anything to do w/ the money?
Child support calculations normally take the amount of parenting time an ncp has into consideration, because the more parenting time they have the more money they need to spend on the child in their own household.

I've never filed for sole custody, so I think by WA standards, we have joint....but seeing as I get child support for her, does that mean I DO have sole?[/quote]

No, receiving child support does NOT mean that you have sole custody...unless there are no custody/visitation orders at all.

Someone in law enforcement told me once that if he takes her, he can legally have her because I don't have sole/full. I know a lot of you on here would probably recommend I go through the courts to get this set in stone, but in my personal experience and thinking, I prefer to avoid court for anything at all costs. I have ZERO fear of him taking her.
The law enforcement person was incorrect...unless there are no custody/visitation orders at all.

Lately, he's been telling me that he's been paying a lawyer $120/hr, who has told him he is paying me too much money (Said it would be reduced to $200 if he took me to court), 1 because I'm married now, 2 because he has a kid, and 3 because his expenses have now changed.
He is lying. None of that has anything to do with a child support calculation...also $120.00 an hour would be incredibly cheap for an attorney. The fact that he wasn't paying rent then and is paying rent now has nothing to do with a child support calculation. His expenses have nothing to do with a child support calculation.

He tells me it is unfair that I am getting child support while he has the child for 3 days, that he's keeping record of this and will make court make us pay back the money he owes us.
If he did that the judge would laugh him out of court.

He says he is going to keep a record of every time he has her, and go through the courts to make my husband and I pay back the money for the time's he's had her and his expenses.
Again, the judge would laugh him out of court.

He also said the lawyer told him that he can SUE me for back child support. Is this true or possible? He said he has paid back child support because I told the court for the 1st 2 years of her life, he didn't help out. (That is not true, we were living together the first 2 years of her life, and I've never lie to the courts). I've never received any back child support. Is there any way this is true?
In no way, shape or form is that true...he is full of it.

Additionally, if I do end up in court, what advice can you give me? This is the last night she's spending with him. He's known all week that she has piano practice after school today, I made sure and gave him the details about it and he just told me she is skipping that today. There is no reason for her to skip other than he is an a**hole. Her piano lessons are expensive and his money does help pay for it....How much could he possibly care when he does something like this? Is this something to mention if I go to court? This whole situation breaks my heart for someone to be so horrible and vindictive and none of it is out of real love or care for the child. She loves her lessons and even told me she wants to go more often. :( Why do people do this kind of stuff?
A judge will not be unhappy with him because she missed a piano lesson. The only way you are going to end up in court is if there are no visitation/custody orders, and then it will only be to set visitation/custody to enforceable orders.

Seriously, dad is BSing you all the way here.
 
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l_c

Junior Member
Piano lessons are not essential items. Seriously.

He should be paying according to WA state guidelines - these are very easily found online.

He cannot sue you for back child support based upon the (lack of) reasoning you've given. He's blowing smoke. In future, if he contacts you and tells you what his imaginary lawyer has said, ask him to get his lawyer to contact you directly.

That will do one of two things. He'll either shut up and leave it alone, or you'll have legitimate contact with his attorney. Win/win.
Thanks. I did look up the guidelines previously but it seems like there are so many varying factors. It did say "reasonable recreation expenses" in addition to food, shelter, etc. But that brings up another question I have. He talks so much about making sure his child support goes for things that are JUST for his child, etc, but I have never looked at it like that. She is more than taken care of, & money received from him is just part of the income. I don't make sure that his money specifically goes to things for her. If he takes me to court, are they allowed to pull financial records? Just wondering if I may be looking at a major loss of privacy here.
 

l_c

Junior Member
Wow, I'm a little surprised that he would just be totally lying.... To be clear, no, there are no custody/visitation orders at all.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Thanks. I did look up the guidelines previously but it seems like there are so many varying factors. It did say "reasonable recreation expenses" in addition to food, shelter, etc. But that brings up another question I have. He talks so much about making sure his child support goes for things that are JUST for his child, etc, but I have never looked at it like that. She is more than taken care of, & money received from him is just part of the income. I don't make sure that his money specifically goes to things for her. If he takes me to court, are they allowed to pull financial records? Just wondering if I may be looking at a major loss of privacy here.
You are correct in your thinking. If money is assigned to specific "things" (childcare & medical expenses come to mind) then you may need to show what you spend on that. But, in general, child support is to reimburse you for money that you have already spent. You don't have to provide him with an accounting.

For the record, if I ever see the $160k+ that's owed to me, I'm going to buy a nice airplane (leaning towards a Maule at the moment) and a couple of 'vettes
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Wow, I'm a little surprised that he would just be totally lying.... To be clear, no, there are no custody/visitation orders at all.
Well in that case you DO have sole custody. However, the police officer was correct that without a court order your sole custody is not enforceable if he were to just keep the child. You would have to go to court to get the child back. Not because dad could legally keep the child, but because the police generally refuse to get involved.

Basically though, everything that dad told you that his attorney said is a complete lie.
 

proud_parent

Senior Member
Lately, he's been telling me that he's been paying a lawyer $120/hr, who has told him he is paying me too much money (Said it would be reduced to $200 if he took me to court), 1 because I'm married now, 2 because he has a kid, and 3 because his expenses have now changed.
He is lying. None of that has anything to do with a child support calculation...

I beg to differ. It's entirely possible that Dad is not lying. According to RCW 26.19.075, a court may indeed consider those things when determining whether to deviate from the standard child support calculation.


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=26.19.075
 

proud_parent

Senior Member
Go back and read that again proud parent...it really does not apply here. There are no extraordinary circumstances where a deviation would be appropriate.
Really? How do you know this?

The fact is that none of us was in the room when Dad (purportedly) discussed the circumstances of this case with his attorney. You may be willing to advise the OP that there's no chance in heck that a court would find reason to deviate from guidelines in this situation. I'm not willing to do the same.

OP, I would advise you to read the link I provided carefully, to prepare yourself for what deviations Dad's attorney might attempt to argue under the law. I'd much rather you arm yourself with the facts for your state, rather than accept as gospel what any anonymous non-attorney in another state (and that includes me) might claim on the internet.
 
Really? How do you know this?

The fact is that none of us was in the room when Dad (purportedly) discussed the circumstances of this case with his attorney. You may be willing to advise the OP that there's no chance in heck that a court would find reason to deviate from guidelines in this situation. I'm not willing to do the same.

OP, I would advise you to read the link I provided carefully, to prepare yourself for what deviations Dad's attorney might attempt to argue under the law. I'd much rather you arm yourself with the facts for your state, rather than accept as gospel what any anonymous non-attorney in another state (and that includes me) might claim on the internet.

I can confirm that your post is absolutely valid for the state of WA.
 

l_c

Junior Member
OP, I would advise you to read the link I provided carefully, to prepare yourself for what deviations Dad's attorney might attempt to argue under the law. I'd much rather you arm yourself with the facts for your state, rather than accept as gospel what any anonymous non-attorney in another state (and that includes me) might claim on the internet.
Thanks, I just read the link. It looks like another child is grounds for a deviation...The only other one it seems like he may be able to use is "Extraordinary debt not voluntarily incurred," if he has anything like that. I am not sure what his plans are, but I do know he pays that other mom child support under the table. I think they may have it worked out that way because it benefits one or both of them somehow; I think she gets government benefits, of which I'm sure she wouldn't qualify for if he paid her child support officially. I know for a fact while they were living together that she was receiving gov't benefits by using her mother's address. All of that makes it seem like it would be REALLY stupid for him to go to court, wouldn't that get brought to light?
 
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LdiJ

Senior Member
Really? How do you know this?

The fact is that none of us was in the room when Dad (purportedly) discussed the circumstances of this case with his attorney. You may be willing to advise the OP that there's no chance in heck that a court would find reason to deviate from guidelines in this situation. I'm not willing to do the same.

OP, I would advise you to read the link I provided carefully, to prepare yourself for what deviations Dad's attorney might attempt to argue under the law. I'd much rather you arm yourself with the facts for your state, rather than accept as gospel what any anonymous non-attorney in another state (and that includes me) might claim on the internet.
I will concede that we don't know if dad has given his attorney the impression that there is a potentially valid deviation. Certainly nothing has been described here that would fit any of the parameters of the law that you quoted. If you read over my initial response where I snipped and responded to just her specific questions you will see that pretty much all of what dad is claiming would not be valid even in an argument for a deviation.

However, since dad is claiming that he is paying his attorney $120.00 an hour, which would be incredibly low for any attorney, even a small town one, I think that the odds are more in favor that dad hasn't spoken to an attorney at all.
 
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proud_parent

Senior Member
Thanks, I just read the link. It looks like another child is grounds for a deviation...The only other one it seems like he may be able to use is "Extraordinary debt not voluntarily incurred," if he has anything like that. I am not sure what his plans are, but I do know he pays that other mom child support under the table. I think they may have it worked out that way because it benefits one or both of them somehow; I think she gets government benefits, of which I'm sure she wouldn't qualify for if he paid her child support officially. I know for a fact while they were living together that she was receiving gov't benefits by using her mother's address. All of that makes it seem like it would be REALLY stupid for him to go to court, wouldn't that get brought to light?
If there is a child support hearing, you should be prepared to bring such details to light to refute his claims.

That is why I suggested you read the link, vs. simply dismiss everything he is telling you as garbage. Forewarned is forearmed.


And as my grandma always said, "a woman with four arms can do anything". :)
 

proud_parent

Senior Member
I will concede that we don't know if dad has given his attorney the impression that there is a potentially valid deviation. Certainly nothing has been described here that would fit any of the parameters of the law that you quoted. If you read over my initial response where I snipped and responded to just her specific questions you will see that pretty much all of what dad is claiming would not be valid even in an argument for a deviation.

However, since dad is claiming that he is paying his attorney $120.00 an hour, which would be incredibly low for any attorney, even a small town one, I think that the odds are more in favor that dad hasn't spoken to an attorney at all.
"If you read..." "Go back and read..." Thanks, but I did that before I posted.

More food for thought: I seem to recall that the last time my husband had an open family court case, he routinely discussed details with his attorney that he did not divulge to his ex before the matter was brought to court. I can only imagine what her side of the story might have read like online.

I also know what my husband's attorney charged by the hour. Ah, it's good to live in a small town. :)
 

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