College and CS clarification

[KLDAD]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana
Just a few quick questions regarding CS, Post-Secondary Educational Expenses and emancipation.

I am NCP. My son turns 19 at the end of November. He is currently living at home while attending college. I will be filing to have him emancipated upon his 19th birthday. There is no provision for post-secondary education in the divorce decree. As I understand the Indiana guidelines, CS will stop upon emancipation.

If my ex wants some form of support to continue while he resides with her, would that be addressed by her requesting the state to calculate obligation of NCP and CP using the Post-Secondary Expense Worksheet? Or is it the responsibility of my son to file with the court for assistance with college?

If an obligation for NCP and CP for education expenses is determined, how is the transfer of money made? Does the money(for example percentages of tuition, books etc. that I am responsible for) "go through" the CP on its way to the college? Where do the figures come from for calculating college expenses?

Thanks in advance.

 

[CJane]

Depending on when your order was issued, the answer varies.

If the order was issued before 7/1/12, Mom has until the child's 21st birthday to file for an order that would obligate you to pay a % of college costs. If the order was issued after 7/1/12, that ship has sailed because Mom only had until the child's 19th birthday to do so.

That information can be found here:
http://www.indy.gov/eGov/County/Clerk/Child/Documents/EmancipationFAQ.7-1.12.pdf

Note that the court is not REQUIRED to issue an order for college costs. The court MAY issue such an order.

If ordered, those funds would be paid to the CP, from what I can gather.

 

[stealth2]

Depending on when your order was issued, the answer varies.

If the order was issued before 7/1/12, Mom has until the child's 21st birthday to file for an order that would obligate you to pay a % of college costs. If the order was issued after 7/1/12, that ship has sailed because Mom only had until the child's 19th birthday to do so.

That information can be found here:
http://www.indy.gov/eGov/County/Clerk/Child/Documents/EmancipationFAQ.7-1.12.pdf

Note that the court is not REQUIRED to issue an order for college costs. The court MAY issue such an order.

If ordered, those funds would be paid to the CP, from what I can gather.

No - Mom has until the end of next month to file. Kiddo doesn't turn 19 until then.

 

[KLDAD]

Thank you CJane.

The order is our original divorce decree, August 1997. My ex has just petitioned the court for a hearing to clear up some financial issues that we have, but in the papers sent to me has included about 60 pages of "research" into the financial status of my wife. I assume that she is preparing for a request to receive support while my son attends college and is hoping to make a case that imputed(or additional?) income should be added to my side of the worksheet.

Previously I have used the on-line calculator for estimating child support but have not been able to locate one for estimating post-secondary education expense obligation. Do you know if one exists? I have found the pdf files for the worksheets but would prefer to use an on-line version to quickly see how variations in income and school expenses can alter the potential financial obligation. EDIT: Disregard this question. Realized that I am able to generate pdf files of both the CSOW and PSEW using the Indiana Supreme Court Child Support Calculator at http://mycourts.in.gov/csc/parents/.

The thought of my money, intended to help my son pay for his education, going through the hands of my ex causes me a great deal of anxiety. I would be interested to hear from anyone with any experience in this situation.

Thanks again for your input.

 

[CJane]

No - Mom has until the end of next month to file. Kiddo doesn't turn 19 until then.

Ooops. Thanks.

OP - when was your order entered?

 

[KLDAD]

OP - when was your order entered?[/QUOTE]

Our original divorce decree dates from August, 1997. No modifications have been made to date. As I understand the state guidelines, my ex has the opportunity to file a request until my son reaches the age of 21.

There is no provision for post-secondary education expenses in our divorce decree, only a note that we would reserve discussion on the matter for a later date. No discussions have taken place but it appears it will be an issue at the hearing for emancipation.

In your earlier reply you stated that the court "may" order education expenses, and I understand that it is only an option, not a requirement. In all of the research I have done looking at case results, I have yet to find one which does not order college expenses. Can anyone refer me to a case that highlights a courts deliberation of whether or not college expenses should be an obligation?

Thanks again. I truly appreciate your comments and opinions.

 

[KLDAD]

Regarding Imputed Income

I have been advised by some Senior Members that a new thread I posted, Imputed Income (or Potential Income) and CS Modification, would be better suited appearing here as part of my original thread involving questions about CS modification and Post-Secondary Education Expenses. The new posting has the details of my situation, but the gist is as follows:

Per the Indiana State Guidelines, imputing income is an option available to the court, with the description focused primarily on situations where one of the parties is purposefully unemployed to avoid income. One sentence is included that may or may not pertain to my situation:

"The marriage of a parent to a spouse with sufficient affluence to obviate the necessity for the parent to work may give rise to a situation where either potential income or imputed income or both should be considered in arriving at gross income."

I am employed and earning a salary that easily matches the numbers posted for my profession on the Bureau For Labor Statistics web site. I have never asked for modification of support in an attempt to reduce my support obligation, and she has never requested modification to increase.

So, aside from the actual petition, what would it take for a judge to seriously consider her request to "increase" my income? What are the factors that would be considered in court to determine whether such a request was warranted? What criteria are used?

 

[I'mTheFather]

Here's the whole post from the original thread:

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana
I am hoping someone has expertise to share regarding imputed income(and/or potential income), as it relates to Child Support modifications in Indiana.

I am the NCP. At the time of my divorce I was teaching at a University. It was a job I accepted because I was unable to find a job in my chosen profession(graphic design) at a wage that would allow me to support my family. I was on a two year contract and the divorce was finalized at nearly the same time my contract ended. The child support calculations were based on the salary I was earning while teaching. I taught full-time for 3 more years at another school, earning a smaller salary. Over the next 5 years I continued to teach part-time while I transitioned from teaching to practicing. Now, after 9 years working as a designer my income has reached the same level as my income at the time of the divorce. I never requested a modification of the child support, and neither has my ex. I married again in 2007. My wife comes from a wealthy family and her income is much greater than mine.

My son will be 19 at the end of November, and I am seeking emancipation. He is currently in college, living at home. From documents I have received from my ex this month, I am certain that she is going to request child support to continue, probably as part of the post-secondary educational expenses, and, attempt to have my income imputed or potential income used when calculations are made by the court.

My ex was not working at the time of the divorce in order to stay at home with the children. When they entered school she began working full-time. She was employed prior to the birth of our children, working for a large telecommunications company as a low to mid-level executive, but chose to work at clerical or administrative level positions when she returned to the workforce.

Three months ago, my son told me that his mother had left her job and began working at an attorneys office. As she has no experience or education in the area of law, I have to assume it is a clerical position. Relevant only in that I believe she would have taken a considerable reduction in salary to make that change.

Per the Indiana State Guidelines, imputing income is an option available to the court, with the description focused primarily on situations where one of the parties is purposefully unemployed to avoid income. One sentence is included that may or may not pertain to my situation:

"The marriage of a parent to a spouse with sufficient affluence to obviate the necessity for the parent to work may give rise to a situation where either potential income or imputed income or both should be considered in arriving at gross income."

I am employed and earning a salary that easily matches the numbers posted for my profession on the Bureau For Labor Statistics web site. As stated above, I have never asked for modification of support in an attempt to reduce my support obligation, and she has never requested modification to increase.

So, aside from the actual petition, what would it take for a judge to seriously consider her request to "increase" my income? What are the factors that would be considered in court to determine whether such a request was warranted? What criteria are used?

Using the CS calculator, I have found that my salary would have to almost double before the child support amount increased by more than 20%. That appears to be one of the requirements to be demonstrated for CS modification. Would that be a requirement for any change in regard to calculating CS at the time of any post-secondary education expense process?

I apologize for the length of this post but I have been frustrated by the lack of information on this topic.

I welcome all comments, opinions and knowledge on offer. Thank you.

Please delete the other thread.

 

[I'mTheFather]

That section of the code generally applies to nonworking parents. It's not likely that the judge will impute an income higher than you are capable of earning. Neither is it likely that the judge will impute an income for your ex based on her work history from 5-10 years ago.

 

[KLDAD]

That section of the code generally applies to nonworking parents. It's not likely that the judge will impute an income higher than you are capable of earning. Neither is it likely that the judge will impute an income for your ex based on her work history from 5-10 years ago.

Thanks. I believe my ex will be trying to make a case that I am, or have been, capable of earning a higher income, and haven't by virtue of my wife's financial status.

Regarding my ex and her income, no imputing expected, just thought it ironic that her income has actually declined but the focus will be on me.

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks. I believe my ex will be trying to make a case that I am, or have been, capable of earning a higher income, and haven't by virtue of my wife's financial status.

Regarding my ex and her income, no imputing expected, just thought it ironic that her income has actually declined but the focus will be on me.

I don't understand why you are assuming that mom's income has declined. You stated that she had a new job at a law firm, and that you believe that results in a lower income, but I don't understand why you think it results in a lower income.

Also, I think that you may be researching the wrong things. Its one thing if mom is asking for child support to continue through college. Its another thing entirely if mom is asking that you share college expenses. The former is based on incomes and state guideline calculations. The latter is based on actual college expenses.

 

[KLDAD]

I don't understand why you are assuming that mom's income has declined. You stated that she had a new job at a law firm, and that you believe that results in a lower income, but I don't understand why you think it results in a lower income.

Fair point. I shouldn't assume. The assumption was made based on her previous job changes over the last 3-4 years but until I know the actual income I won't assume anything. Thanks.

 

[KLDAD]

Also, I think that you may be researching the wrong things. Its one thing if mom is asking for child support to continue through college. Its another thing entirely if mom is asking that you share college expenses. The former is based on incomes and state guideline calculations. The latter is based on actual college expenses.

I think that my confusion arises from the CSOW, or more specifically, my attempts to estimate what might be ordered in response to the likely request by my ex for help with post-secondary education expenses. Because the CSOW includes questions regarding college expenses, I assumed that that the two issues were intertwined.

Here is a segment taken from http://www.indy.gov/eGov/County/Clerk/Child/Documents/EmancipationFAQ.7-1.12.pdf, which was referenced by CJane in an earlier response:

Q: Can I petition the court to receive child support until my child graduates from college?
A: The duty to support a child ends when the child turns 19. However, a court may order one or both
parents to provide continuing support for the child's post‐secondary educational needs if the child is
going to college.

Based on this question and response, it seems that the "continuing support" is, in effect, child support which also happens to include actual expenses for education. Or vice-versa. Either way it all seems a bit gray. And when I attempt to locate a methodology or worksheet for estimating what sort of "support" might be ordered, the only resource I am pointed toward is the CSOW. Logically, I see the conflict. Emancipation should end CS. And when a child lives away from home it certainly makes it easier to consider education expenses as a separate issue. But when a child lives at home the parent in that home is still referred to as the "CP", and they appear to be entitled to ask for CS. Which leads back to the CSOW which has no provision for indicating that the child is considered emancipated. Of course there are expenses for the CP, but considering emancipation is supposed to end support, are they calculated in the same manner as when the child was not yet 19? As I understand it, the obligation for parents to contribute to the educational expenses is up to the discretion of the court. Would the court use the CSOW without including college expenses, then make a decision on the college expenses at their discretion?

Of course this is all assuming that the court decides that an obligation for education expenses exists. What I am trying to do is estimate the potential amounts a court might, or has the right to, order.

I apologize if I have made this more confusing that it ought to be.

Thanks for reading, and all opinions, suggestions, etc. are welcome.

 

[LdiJ]

I think that my confusion arises from the CSOW, or more specifically, my attempts to estimate what might be ordered in response to the likely request by my ex for help with post-secondary education expenses. Because the CSOW includes questions regarding college expenses, I assumed that that the two issues were intertwined.

Here is a segment taken from http://www.indy.gov/eGov/County/Clerk/Child/Documents/EmancipationFAQ.7-1.12.pdf, which was referenced by CJane in an earlier response:

Q: Can I petition the court to receive child support until my child graduates from college?
A: The duty to support a child ends when the child turns 19. However, a court may order one or both
parents to provide continuing support for the child's post‐secondary educational needs if the child is
going to college.

Based on this question and response, it seems that the "continuing support" is, in effect, child support which also happens to include actual expenses for education. Or vice-versa. Either way it all seems a bit gray. And when I attempt to locate a methodology or worksheet for estimating what sort of "support" might be ordered, the only resource I am pointed toward is the CSOW. Logically, I see the conflict. Emancipation should end CS. And when a child lives away from home it certainly makes it easier to consider education expenses as a separate issue. But when a child lives at home the parent in that home is still referred to as the "CP", and they appear to be entitled to ask for CS. Which leads back to the CSOW which has no provision for indicating that the child is considered emancipated. Of course there are expenses for the CP, but considering emancipation is supposed to end support, are they calculated in the same manner as when the child was not yet 19? As I understand it, the obligation for parents to contribute to the educational expenses is up to the discretion of the court. Would the court use the CSOW without including college expenses, then make a decision on the college expenses at their discretion?

Of course this is all assuming that the court decides that an obligation for education expenses exists. What I am trying to do is estimate the potential amounts a court might, or has the right to, order.

I apologize if I have made this more confusing that it ought to be.

Thanks for reading, and all opinions, suggestions, etc. are welcome.

Sorry, but I am giving up on this one because you are not listening.

 

[KLDAD]

Sorry, but I am giving up on this one because you are not listening.

I wish you would reconsider. Here is what you posted earlier: "Its one thing if mom is asking for child support to continue through college."

One question that would help me understand: If emancipation is granted, how would she request child support to continue through college?

And I am listening.