College Support Order and Aptitude for College

[Ohiogal]

Many CPs who come here to ask how they can get the NCP to contribute to the college fund have often been ripped apart (kid can get scholarships, work, get loans themselves).

This NCP is asking if has to contribute, specially since at least on the surface the twins aren't exactly showing an aptitude for that whole learning thing.

Is it a case of NCP being penalized via his wallet for past actions (or inaction)?

Not by me. Reread my answer.

 

[Ohiogal]

I have known in the past that they were struggling in certain classes. I did ask them what the problem was and did lecture them about their grades and putting forth some extra effort. Getting any kind of definitive response from them was like pulling teeth. I even suggested that maybe they should spend a little less time with dance (which was extensive) and spend a little more time on their schoolwork. I never did actually request copies of their grades which in retrospect does show some "disinterest" on my part.

However, no I did not realize that there were struggling as much as they obviously were.

Then you fell down on your responsibilities as a parent. Even if you were the NCP, you could have been talking to their teachers, getting copies of their report cards and being a parent. You didn't do that. That is your bad. I hold however with my initial post in this thread.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana
Does anyone have any knowledge of what constitutes an aptitude for college? I have two daughters (twins) who will turn 19 on Tuesday at which time they will become emancipated and child support will terminate. My ex emailed me out of the blue asking if I was going to pay for 1/3 of college. We had never discussed college prior to this and she gave me no details. There is no mention of payment of college expenses in the divorce decree. She has filed a petition for college expenses and we both have an attorney.

Through discovery, my attorney learned that their grade point averages are 2.2 and 2.3 and they rank in the lower twenty-fifth percentile in their class. One received an F in Algebra and one had a D in English among other poor grades. According to these numbers they were only conditionally accepted at the institution they applied to. I have serious concerns about their ability to perform at a college level and am reluctant to agree to any settlement as the opposing attorney has requested. My attorney's position is that if we do go to court there is the risk that I could be ordered to pay they amount that the petitioner requests.

Neither party has saved any amount towards college and both of us have excess consumer debt. Neither of us have much left over after normal monthly expenses to apply toward a college education. I have requested that the hearing be postponed until the financial aid package is received detailing whether or not they qualify for the Federal Pell grant and any student loans they are eligible for. I do not know if this request will be accepted by opposing council.

I am wondering if anyone has any experience in a matter like this and would like to hear opinions.

I can tell you that 1/3rd is the typical amount ordered in Indiana. 1/3 mom, 1/3 dad, 1/3 child. However, the 1/3 amounts are generally calculated after grants, scholarships and student loans. So, you really don't need to postpone the hearing, you just need to make sure that the order is written so that your 1/3 is only 1/3 of what is left after financial aid is awarded. It is also possible to get parent student loans so that you can spread your 1/3 share over time.

However dad, why is it that you had no prior knowledge of your children's academic progress?

Edit to add: I guess I should have read the rest of the thread before I responded. Dad, both parents of a child need to be actively involved in their children's education if they want to be certain that their children succeed. Notice how much that has been an issue on this thread? If you attempt to go into court making the argument that your children should not go to college because of their grades, and you cannot also demonstrate how much of an effort YOU put forth to help them succeed in school, you are not going to earn brownie points with the judge.

Where is it that they want to go to school that would cost you 1100.00 a month? What school conditionally accepted them that would cost that much?

 

[Just Blue]

Then you fell down on your responsibilities as a parent. Even if you were the NCP, you could have been talking to their teachers, getting copies of their report cards and being a parent. You didn't do that. That is your bad. I hold however with my initial post in this thread.

As I hold with mine. I do, however understand and respect your POV.

 

[commentator]

Wholeheartedly agree with that. It is very hard to see a judge being sympathetic to the "they're not college material" argument, when you really didn't try to force the issue with them. In your defense, it sounds as though you did to some extent. Twins reinforce each other, and can really put up a wall when they are so inclined. It sounds as though they may have been quite socially active, had lots of extra-curricular activities, really appeared to be successful, when they really weren't doing so well.

But I would also think that if you describe the effort you have made to help them think about college, get them to consider going to a college near you to stay with you, and that you are making such efforts, and also that they refuse to admit you to the decision process or discuss realistic options with you, it may bear some weight. I also ask the question, what college are they considering, and I repeat my question, what are they thinking of studying, what realistic plans are being made? What you don't want is to put the judge in mind to tell you just "cough up the cash, don't ask questions."

 

[I'mTheFather]

Where is it that they want to go to school that would cost you 1100.00 a month? What school conditionally accepted them that would cost that much?

Assuming that they'd live on campus, the cost of tuition, fees, room & board for two students wouldn't be far off his estimation.

 

[LdiJ]

Wholeheartedly agree with that. It is very hard to see a judge being sympathetic to the "they're not college material" argument, when you really didn't try to force the issue with them. In your defense, it sounds as though you did to some extent. Twins reinforce each other, and can really put up a wall when they are so inclined. It sounds as though they may have been quite socially active, had lots of extra-curricular activities, really appeared to be successful, when they really weren't doing so well.

But I would also think that if you describe the effort you have made to help them think about college, get them to consider going to a college near you to stay with you, and that you are making such efforts, and also that they refuse to admit you to the decision process or discuss realistic options with you, it may bear some weight. I also ask the question, what college are they considering, and I repeat my question, what are they thinking of studying, what realistic plans are being made? What you don't want is to put the judge in mind to tell you just "cough up the cash, don't ask questions."

Part of what I am wondering is that dad mentioned their heavy involvement in "dance". If their conditional acceptance into college is based perhaps on a real talent in "dance" (Thinking IU Bloomington state school or possibly out of state) then the grades issue isn't possibly as significant as their talent.

I should also clarify. The main IU campus has an incredible dance school that rates pretty high up nationally. On top of that, Indiana state colleges pretty much have to accept almost anyone "conditionally". However, at the same time I find it hard to believe that 1100.00 a MONTH would be 1/3rd of attending any Indiana state school, even for twins.

So, really, I need more info from dad.

 

[stoneycrusty]

Then you fell down on your responsibilities as a parent. Even if you were the NCP, you could have been talking to their teachers, getting copies of their report cards and being a parent. You didn't do that. That is your bad. I hold however with my initial post in this thread.

You are right and I am now realizing that a little too late.

 

[stoneycrusty]

Part of what I am wondering is that dad mentioned their heavy involvement in "dance". If their conditional acceptance into college is based perhaps on a real talent in "dance" (Thinking IU Bloomington state school or possibly out of state) then the grades issue isn't possibly as significant as their talent.

I should also clarify. The main IU campus has an incredible dance school that rates pretty high up nationally. On top of that, Indiana state colleges pretty much have to accept almost anyone "conditionally". However, at the same time I find it hard to believe that 1100.00 a MONTH would be 1/3rd of attending any Indiana state school, even for twins.

So, really, I need more info from dad.

They were conditionally accepted at IPFW because they did not meet the criteria for regular admission and weren't too far from being denied admission altogether. The amount of $1100.00 is what opposing council wants me to agree to without going to court. Actually I was incorrect he actually wants me to agree to $1300 per month. These numbers are calculated by income shares.

As far as dance goes, it was something that they really enjoyed but didn't necessarily excel at.

 

[stoneycrusty]

I can tell you that 1/3rd is the typical amount ordered in Indiana. 1/3 mom, 1/3 dad, 1/3 child. However, the 1/3 amounts are generally calculated after grants, scholarships and student loans. So, you really don't need to postpone the hearing, you just need to make sure that the order is written so that your 1/3 is only 1/3 of what is left after financial aid is awarded. It is also possible to get parent student loans so that you can spread your 1/3 share over time.

Thank you for this advice. I believe opposing council's first proposal did not calculate any expense to the girls, only to mom and me. I am going to suggest to my attorney that we propose what you have suggested above. Thank you for the responses.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I would not sign a voluntary order. That said, give them a chance if you an afford it. If they produce decent grades keep paying. My daughter is responsible for paying for any classes she receives less than a B in via student loans.

 

[Pinkie39]

Truthfully I think that is an unfair question because not all parents have money to put towards college expenses, not all parents can get loans to help with college and not all parents are in a position to pay for college. Why can't the children WORK if they really want to go to college? That would make more sense.

Well said! Many kids manage to put themselves through college with zero financial assistance from their parents. I did, earning a bachelor's degree. One of my older sisters did, earning a bachelor's, masters, and doctorate. She has a successful career, earning a substantial six figure salary. She certainly hasn't been relegated to menial minimum wage jobs, because our parents couldn't help her with college tuition.

 

[LdiJ]

They were conditionally accepted at IPFW because they did not meet the criteria for regular admission and weren't too far from being denied admission altogether. The amount of $1100.00 is what opposing council wants me to agree to without going to court. Actually I was incorrect he actually wants me to agree to $1300 per month. These numbers are calculated by income shares.

As far as dance goes, it was something that they really enjoyed but didn't necessarily excel at.

You need to review the IPFW website. There is no way that costs would add up to 1300.00 being 1/3rd.

 

[stealth2]

1/3 of one semester for two students comes out to <$450/week for tuition, housing, food, books, etc. That also includes $500/term/student in misc. expenses. The TOTAL cost comes to ~$1300. For both.

 

[single317dad]

In the past, I'd say that Mom would have played heck getting a judge to order educational expenses this late in the game, but in 2012 Indiana added language to the statute specifically allowing for petition for such until age 21 (at the same time support obligation was lowered to age 19). I wouldn't be shocked at all if OP is ordered to pay his part here. See Littke v. Littke.

That said, don't agree to ANYTHING. It may be wise to counter with something more reasonable than what Mom is asking for, which appears to be payment of all expenses by you. Then again, it may not, which is something your attorney can answer.