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CP changing tax mind

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greatdadof3

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Illinois

I'm NCP. Since 1997, CP and I have alternated years claiming child's dependency exemption. I can't remember if it's court ordered thing (I will be checking Monday) or if this is an agreement we made on one of her good days. CP simmers with anger & resentment for me since we broke up 10 years ago - sometimes she is able to put it aside however since I remarried 3years ago, CP has been hellbent on taking whatever pot shot she can to cause ruin in my life. So, the current pot shot is this.

Dependency exemption is mine for 2009 taxes. CP sends a text message 2 days ago stating that since I haven't paid half of child's expenses in 2009 then I cannot claim him. The basis of her argument (besides bitterness) is that I was laid off the first half of 2009 and she received a lesser amount of child support (the amt was determined by my unemployment comp). Without going any further into this story, lets debunk that scenario by saying this: CP doesn't work - she lives on aid and child support. I'm not exactly sure what math she does that determines that somehow SHE paid half of child's expenses anyway :rolleyes:

Here is my 2009 work/support scenario. I was laid off late '08, filed petition to modify and modification went through in January 2009. CP began receiving significantly less. In May 2009, I went back to work and CP filed petition for increase. I was laid off again in September & immediately started my own business (same line of work - I could do better than my employer in getting contracts & staying employed, which my kids of course need very much) and continued to pay child support. Child support petition for increase was heard November 2009. We agreed (thru my attorney & "her" state's attorney) that I would pay X amount as "arrears" for the time I worked for someone else and the current child support would be based on the new business income, which wasn't much at all because I'd just started the business. Regardless, my wife and I got our heads together financially and using her income we offered a current support amount higher than what would have been required using my business net. Its just about $40/wk short of what CP would get had I worked for former employer. CP took our offer.

Now, here's where the tax situation comes in..... all of the calculations performed in November to determine net took into account my claiming dependency exemption every other year. And, CP agreed to the calcs! Thats almost a court order right there, you'd think, showing that she was in agreement regarding the alternating tax years. Not to mention the years and years of tax returns showing we have the alternating agreement.

To sum it up, I paid a small amount from Jan-May (but still 20%) and a normal amount May-Dec..... CP's hates me & wife, and even though she knows we pay her more than business can afford, she concocts this argument (and I use that term loosely) in her head to benefit her and bring financial pain to me. I wrote CP a letter nicely reminding her of the agreement & November calcs but she has no convinced herself that she is right to have the exemption. In the letter I also reminded her that not allowing an exemption for me changes my net; thus reducing her child support. Still, a brick wall. No reason whatsoever.

Need some advice as to how to handle this & what you suspect the courts might think and/or how the IRS might come into play here.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
You will not be entitled the the deduction unless your ex signs the form 8332 (Google it). That's what the IRS will say.
 

Stott

Member
Tell your ex CS has nothing to do with taxes on your side or hers! On another thread LDiJ stated whoever has most overnights. And yes 1/2 of the childs' support does has something to do with it but not in child support terms. On Findlaw there is sheet you can use to determine. But check your CO to see if taxes are addressed!
 

greatdadof3

Junior Member
Tinker...

Regarding the CO I'm going to find that out, for sure, on Monday; however I don't think we have a CO on this particular issue. In the event that that is the case I'm going to contact an attorney and see that there is a hearing on this matter. My question to the forum was whether there were any comments and/or experiences regarding how courts rule in a situation like what I've described.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
If your court order is silent on the tax exemption, the CP has the right to ALWAYS take the child.

Now, you have status quo on your side on the number of years you have alternated the child. You may have to revisit in court if mom won't give it up.
 

CJane

Senior Member
If your court order is silent on the tax exemption, the CP has the right to ALWAYS take the child.

Now, you have status quo on your side on the number of years you have alternated the child. You may have to revisit in court if mom won't give it up.
And before you do, do a serious cost-benefit analysis. Is paying an attorney to take this to court going to cost significantly less than whatever financial benefit you get from claiming the child?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Tinker...

Regarding the CO I'm going to find that out, for sure, on Monday; however I don't think we have a CO on this particular issue. In the event that that is the case I'm going to contact an attorney and see that there is a hearing on this matter. My question to the forum was whether there were any comments and/or experiences regarding how courts rule in a situation like what I've described.
Whoever has the right to claim the child is controlled by the tax code. In this instance, it would be mom.

However, mom can voluntarily release the exemption to you via a form 8332. The courts can order mom to provide you the 8332 every other year, and punish her if she does not obey that order.

Based on your child support situation for 2009, I am not 100% certain that you would be given the exemption for 2009. However, if you were not given the exemption for 2009, its quite likely that you would be given the exemption for 2010.

However....I do have a question. If mom has no earned income at all then why does mom care who claims the child? She cannot benefit from the exemption if she has no earned income. Were you exaggerating that mom does not work at all? Is mom married and filing a joint return with her husband who works?
 

haiku

Senior Member
just an aside to LDiJ, my husband was awarded all 3 of his children in the divorce for the taxes- for the stretch of the entire divore mom refused to part with one of the kids, even in the years the use of that child was of NO benefit to her. It was all a game to her.

Alot of parents I don't think are aware of how this deduction really works. They see that the kid is worth so much as the deduction on paper but don't realize that that doesn't mean they actually get any substantial cash back for it, if they have a low income.

When my husband finally took her back to court to recoup the lost years, and some other pressing issues, there were some tax years when his income was very low, the missing child only added a couple hundred or less, that it wouldn't have really been worth the cost to go back to court if that was the only year, and the only thing he was back in court for.
 
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greatdadof3

Junior Member
CJane,

Ready to see my lack of tax knowledge? I don't know exactly what the cash back difference is in claiming the child. My salary/deductions have flucuated so much through the years that any difference in dollars when I do claim/don't claim child I just chalk up to any number of factors that might have affected the taxes. Here's what I know & maybe someone can help me with a formula that translates this into real dollars back or owed in taxes. And, although I itemize my deductions I went with the standard deduction to simplify.

Married Filing Jointly (MFJ) standard deduction-$11400
Exemption per household member-$3650
A family of four:
Deduction-$11400.00
Exemptions-$3650.00 * 4=$14600.00
Total-$26000.00 deducted from income

A family of three:
Deduction-$11400.00
Exemptions0$3650.00 * 3=$10950.00
Total-$22350.00 deducted from income

Difference: $3650.00 (seems significant, how do I translate this into dollars & cents back?)

LDiJ,

Mom filed for divorce from her 2nd husband last fall (its not final) so I'm assuming they will file together or separate but married; and he has a job. At our Nov hearing the judge asked mom "How do you support yourself?" She replied "public aid and child support". No exaggerating. She receives child support from me & for another child by a different man (who is not her current husband) & public aid. This has been the case for YEARS.

haiku, IT IS ALL a game. The X causes disruption in my life purely for sport - her "moves" don't have to benefit her in any way for her to make them. What kind of income would you deem "pretty low" to where the child only adds a couple hundred? Not trying to get into your personal finances but low is relative. You make some excellent points with your personal examples. I'm here to learn more :)
 

CJane

Senior Member
Here's how I understand it.

As the NCP, you're not entitled to the child tax credit. You're not entitled to Earned Income Credit. ALL you get is the deduction for another dependent.

It's not likely that this deduction makes THAT big of a difference to your potential refund. And really? If your withholdings are set up right, you should be MORE happy when you get $0 back and/or get a small amount back/owe a small amount.

Unless you get the EIC or some other large tax credits payable in cash, a refund is really the IRS giving you back money you loaned to the government throughout the year.

Now, Mom releasing the deduction to you does NOT affect her ability to claim the child tax credit OR EIC if she had any earned income at all since she is the CP.

But all of this is moot if you don't have the deduction specified in your order.
 

haiku

Senior Member
haiku, IT IS ALL a game. The X causes disruption in my life purely for sport - her "moves" don't have to benefit her in any way for her to make them. What kind of income would you deem "pretty low" to where the child only adds a couple hundred? Not trying to get into your personal finances but low is relative. You make some excellent points with your personal examples. I'm here to learn more :)
Well its been a few years but its not a big deal to me, we are self employed and our early years some of them were very very lean. We had our accountant go back as many years as we legally could and redo our taxes with the omitted childs deduction included. the lower your income the less money that deduction amount translates into for your actual refund or amount you pay in. (self employed means we don't normally get money back, but it makes what we owe less ;)...)

My husband could not ask for the deduction dollar amount per kid back,(seems thats what you are thinking per your example?) he could only ask for the actual dollar amount lost, and most years it did not add up to that amount. Our worst year the business only took in 20,000 the kid only took a couple hundred off our tax burden that year.

This is why in general (I am talking involved parents who are financially supporting their kids) the deduction should really go to the parent who makes the most money, it will benefit them the most.

If you are serious about this, I suggest you take your last three years of tax returns and have them redone with the children included. Only that number and the difference between it and your actual return can tell you if its worth going after the lost deductions.

All of this of course hinges on your court order.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
CJane,

Ready to see my lack of tax knowledge? I don't know exactly what the cash back difference is in claiming the child. My salary/deductions have flucuated so much through the years that any difference in dollars when I do claim/don't claim child I just chalk up to any number of factors that might have affected the taxes. Here's what I know & maybe someone can help me with a formula that translates this into real dollars back or owed in taxes. And, although I itemize my deductions I went with the standard deduction to simplify.

Married Filing Jointly (MFJ) standard deduction-$11400
Exemption per household member-$3650
A family of four:
Deduction-$11400.00
Exemptions-$3650.00 * 4=$14600.00
Total-$26000.00 deducted from income

A family of three:
Deduction-$11400.00
Exemptions0$3650.00 * 3=$10950.00
Total-$22350.00 deducted from income

Difference: $3650.00 (seems significant, how do I translate this into dollars & cents back?)
No one can tell you that without knowing what gross income you are starting from. What I can tell you, is that as long as you do not zero out before being able to utilize the childs exemption, that it would be worth anywhere from about 365.00 to 900.00 plus the 1000.00 child tax credit. So 1365.00 to about 1900.00 is the max value of the exemption to you. If you zero out, it could be worth considerably less.

If it ends up costing you 3000.00 to win a court case, you will have used up about two years worth of the exemption, getting the exemption. If it costs you more, you will have used up more years.

LDiJ,

Mom filed for divorce from her 2nd husband last fall (its not final) so I'm assuming they will file together or separate but married; and he has a job. At our Nov hearing the judge asked mom "How do you support yourself?" She replied "public aid and child support". No exaggerating. She receives child support from me & for another child by a different man (who is not her current husband) & public aid. This has been the case for YEARS.
Anytime that mom is married and files a joint return with a spouse the exemption is of value to her, whether she works or not. So don't use the "mom doesn't work" argument, simply argue that its fair that you alternate the exemption.

haiku, IT IS ALL a game. The X causes disruption in my life purely for sport - her "moves" don't have to benefit her in any way for her to make them. What kind of income would you deem "pretty low" to where the child only adds a couple hundred? Not trying to get into your personal finances but low is relative. You make some excellent points with your personal examples. I'm here to learn more :)
There are all kinds of combos of incomes and deductions/exemptions were a child's exemption might have little value. The higher the number of children's exemption are included on a return, the more likely it is that the exemption would have little value.

Heck...someone with a very high income might get little to no benefit from claiming a child, because the child tax credit phases out and so does the exemption. A non custodial parent with low income also might benefit only a little from claiming a child, because they zero out and are not eligible for EIC.

If you want to see exactly what the child's exemption would be worth to you, then have your numbers run both with and without the child, to see the difference. However keep in mind that unless your income/financial situation remains very steady from year to year, that it could vary significantly from year to year.

Just remember the following:

You are not eligible for EIC.
Unless you have other children in the home you are not eligible for Head of Household status. (of course if you are married that's irrelevant).
You are not eligible for daycare credits.
 

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