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CS Review in NC commission included as income ??

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mamadi

Member
What is the name of your state? North Carolina

My childrens mother has been paying $38 per week in child support (2 children). She lives in NY **************we live in NC. After 3 years DSS is looking to review the CS order. Three years ago it was calculated with her making $6.10 an hour (at a mall dept. store). After three years they are telling me her income is now $6.75 an hour. The child support would only go up $16 per week.

My 1st question is this **************....Can her commission be included in the calculations ? Can DSS request w-2's or 1040's or do they have to go by what was sent to them (a copy of a paystub showing hourly wages) ??

My other question ************** Once the new amount begins, should it be retroactive to around the time they first began requesting her income information (that would have been November !!) ? It's taken this long to get the information sent to DSS. Back in November they told me the new amount should start January 1st (of course that was assuming everyone cooperated in the matter).

Thanks so much for your help !!

tim
 


VeronicaGia

Senior Member
You or DSS should request her w-2's and federal taxes. All sources of income are included for child support. Typically new orders go back to the date of filing, but I've heard of some cases here where judges only go to the date of the court hearing.
 

mamadi

Member
Thanks so much ! That really helps. Sometimes it seems like DSS gets lazy. They don't like go the extra mile at times unless you push them.

What do you mean by the "date of filing "
 

ceara19

Senior Member
mamadi said:
Thanks so much ! That really helps. Sometimes it seems like DSS gets lazy. They don't like go the extra mile at times unless you push them.

What do you mean by the "date of filing "
That would be the day that the motion to modify child support was first entered with the court.
 

Grace_Adler

Senior Member
Is the court order filed in NY or NC?

NC will not do a modification unless the amount deviates by 15% or more. I don't see how a new amount is going to start because to me, it doesn't sound like her income would alter the amount of child support by that 15% but I could be wrong.

And do you know for a fact that they are paid commission as well? Some stores don't do that. I've worked at some clothing stores that didn't pay commission.

Also, just for future reference, it's CSE. Technically CSE is under the Dept of Health and Human Services not DSS.

Income


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The Schedule of Basic Child Support Obligations is based upon net income converted to gross annual income by incorporating the federal tax rates, North Carolina tax rates and FICA. Gross income is income before deductions for federal or state income taxes, Social Security or Medicare taxes, health insurance premiums, retirement contributions, or other amounts withheld from income.

(1) Gross Income. "Income" means a parent's actual gross income from any source, including but not limited to income from employment or self-employment (salaries, wages, commissions, bonuses, dividends, severance pay, etc.), ownership or operation of a business, partnership, or corporation, rental of property, retirement or pensions, interest, trusts, annuities, capital gains, social security benefits, workers compensation benefits, unemployment insurance benefits, disability pay and insurance benefits, gifts, prizes and alimony or maintenance received from persons other than the parties to the instant action. When income is received on an irregular, non-recurring, or one-time basis, the court may average or prorate the income over a specified period of time or require an obligor to pay as child support a percentage of his or her non-recurring income that is equivalent to the percentage of his or her recurring income paid for child support.

Specifically excluded are benefits received from means-tested public assistance programs, including but not limited to Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF), Supplemental Security Income (SSI), Food Stamps and General Assistance.

Social security benefits received for the benefit of a child as a result of the disability or retirement of either parent are included as income attributed to the parent on whose earnings record the benefits are paid, but are deducted from that parent's child support obligation.

Except as otherwise provided, income does not include the income of a person who is not a parent of a child for whom support is being determined regardless of whether that person is married to or lives with the child's parent or has physical custody of the child.

(4) Income Verification. Child support calculations under the guidelines are based on the parents' current incomes at the time the order is entered. Income statements of the parents should be verified through documentation of both current and past income. Suitable documentation of current earnings (at least one full month) includes pay stubs, employer statements, or business receipts and expenses, if self-employed. Documentation of current income must be supplemented with copies of the most recent tax return to provide verification of earnings over a longer period. Sanctions may be imposed for failure to comply with this provision on the motion of a party or by the court on its own motion


Modification


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In a proceeding to modify an existing order that is three years old or older, a difference of 15% or more between the amount of the existing order and the amount of child support resulting from application of the guidelines based on the parents' current incomes and circumstances shall be presumed to constitute a substantial change of circumstances warranting modification. If the order is less than three years old, this presumption does not apply.

https://nddhacts01.dhhs.state.nc.us/home.jsp?TargetScreen=WorkSheet.jsp
 

mamadi

Member
Thanks for your reply Grace

The court order is filed in NC. CSE (sorry for using wrong acryonym previously) contacted me to let me know that they would be looking into a modification. Once they received her hourly wages they then informed me that the amount would be modified because there was definitely more than a 15% increase.

I was pretty certain she was receiving commission on top of the hourly wage . I believe it's called a draw rate . (They subtract the hourly wages from the commission earned, whatever is left in commission is given to you _____as I understand it) If she is not earning commission on a draw rate, it is really possible for an employee's hourly rate to only go up 75 cents in three years of employment ? Having worked in a department store you may know more about these things than I do.

Having dealt with these child support issues in NC for the past few years, I have come to the conclusion that this state is a bit tougher than other states when trying to get CS modified, insurance coverage, etc. And again, you certainly know more about it than I do. You have replied to a few of my posts over the years :) We still cannot get mom to be responsible for health insurance because she falls in the "gray area" ---- as far aa we know. We are trying to find out about commission.

Thanks again for your help !!!
 

Grace_Adler

Senior Member
You're welcome.:)

Yes, it's very possible that she's only received a 75 cent increase in wages in that time frame. NC is a poor state, jobs are few and unemployment is kind of high which makes for more competition in the job market. Employers don't want to pay out any more than they have to, especially places like restaurants, department stores, etc. Most dept. stores start out anywhere from minimum wage to $7 an hour, depending on where you live and what store and what your position is, and you can only go so high up in the wages you receive. Increases are usually small, usually no more than a quarter at a time and they are few and far between. So I wouldn't have any doubts about it because what she is getting is pretty standard for many places.

Some places pay you a draw rate, some pay an hourly wage plus commission, and some pay an hourly wage with no commission. Just depends on where you live and where you work. The best way to find out is to try and find out more about the company and how they pay, especially the store in her area or the one where she works.

*(Edit) I still don't get how they think it's going to be a deviation by 15% with just a .75 increase. I know people who have made a dollar to two dollars more in their income and it didn't make enough difference to modify it. Maybe they know something? If she is getting commission, it must be substantial in order for it to make a difference, so maybe that is what they are going with?

Also, I'm not sure I'm understanding why they are doing a review. NC CSE will only do a review if the CP is on state aid or was on state aid or one of the parties asks for a review.

Do you have this link to the child support calculators?

These are the instructions to determine which worksheet you need to use. Do not go by any court orders or agreements on custody. You have to go by how many overnights the child has with each parent.

Child Support Worksheets


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A parent's presumptive child support obligation under the guidelines must be determined using one of the attached child support worksheets.

The child support worksheets must include the incomes of both parents, regardless of whether one parent is seeking child support from the other parent or a third party is seeking child support from one or both parents. The child support worksheets may not be used to calculate the child support obligation of a stepparent or other party who is secondarily liable for child support. Do not include the income of an individual who is not the parent of a child for whom support is being determined on the worksheets.

Use Worksheet A when one parent (or a third party) has primary physical custody of all of the children for whom support is being determined. A parent (or third party) has primary physical custody of a child if the child lives with that parent (or custodian) for at least 242 nights during the year. Primary physical custody is determined without regard to whether a parent has primary, shared, or joint legal custody of a child. Do not use Worksheet A when (a) a parent has primary custody of one or more children and the parents share custody of one or more children [instead, use Worksheet B] or (b) when primary custody of two or more children is split between the parents [instead, use Worksheet C]. In child support cases involving primary physical custody, a child support obligation is calculated for both parents but the court enters an order requiring the parent who does not have primary physical custody of the child to pay child support to the parent or other party who has primary physical custody of the child.

Use Worksheet B when (a) the parents share custody of all of the children for whom support is being determined, or (b) when one parent has primary physical custody of one or more of the children and the parents share custody of another child. Parents share custody of a child if the child lives with each parent for at least 123 nights during the year and each parent assumes financial responsibility for the child's expenses during the time the child lives with that parent. A parent does not have shared custody of a child when that parent has visitation rights that allow the child to spend less than 124 nights per year with the parent and the other parent has primary physical custody of the child. Shared custody is determined without regard to whether a parent has primary, shared, or joint legal custody of a child. Do not apply the self-sufficiency reserve incorporated into the shaded area of the schedule when using Worksheet B.

In cases involving shared custody, the parents' combined basic support obligation is increased by 50% (multiplied by 1.5) and is allocated between the parents based on their respective incomes and the amount of time the children live with the other parent. The adjustment based on the amount of time the children live with the other parent is calculated for all of the children regardless of whether a parent has primary, shared, or split custody of a child. After child support obligations are calculated for both parents, the parent with the higher child support obligation is ordered to pay the difference between his or her presumptive child support obligation and the other parent's presumptive child support obligation.

Use Worksheet C when primary physical custody of two or more children is split between the parents. Split custody refers to
cases in which one parent has primary custody of at least one of the children for whom support is being determined and the other parent has primary custody of the other child or children. Do not use Worksheet C when the parents share custody of one or more of the children and have primary physical custody or split custody of another child [instead, use Worksheet B]. The parents' combined basic support obligation is allocated between the parents based on their respective incomes and the number of children living with each parent. After child support obligations are calculated for both parents, the parent with the higher child support obligation is ordered to pay the difference between his or her presumptive child support obligation and the other parent's presumptive child support obligation. Do not apply the self-sufficiency reserve incorporated into the shaded area of the schedule when using Worksheet C


https://nddhacts01.dhhs.state.nc.us/home.jsp?TargetScreen=WorkSheet.jsp
 
Last edited:

mamadi

Member
My children's mother (NCP) actually lives and works in Buffalo , NY . The kids go there for a few weeks in the summer. So the issue of overnights is really not an issue. I do use the CS calculators. I just assumed that she would have had more of a .75 increase over a 3 year period. Then I remember that when she started she had mentioned that she would be receiving commission and would pay their insurance (Never happened though !!!) I thought that maybe the commission made up for the lack of raises over the years ??????

I did print out employment information for the department store in which she works. It does say that employees are paid a "draw rate against commission earnings", it then says "commssions earned in excess of the draw rate are paid out to the associate (less any accumulated overdraw from prior pay periods.)

I believe the 15% increase was figured on a monthly basis (that's what my case worker told me anyway). So she is apparantly making 15% more per month than three 1/2 years ago. CSE contacted me by letter to let me know that they would be reviewing / modifying the CS because it had been 3 years and 15%. This was back in November. It has taken this long just to get her hourly wage info. I was told that I could contact CSE and have them get her W-2's. Would they do that if I request it ??

Thanks again !!

Tim
 

Grace_Adler

Senior Member
Yeah, some places like that figure since you getting commission, which may be as little as 5%, then they don't need to give more raises. So then it looks to me like she must have sent them her income info when she got an increase and they determined it was enough to deviate from what it is now.

I don't know about asking for the W2s etc. That's really anyone's guess. They may feel that her paystubs are enough, that's normally what they use to determine income, but they may use other verification if feel it's necessary or maybe if you request it. It's really difficult to say. But you can always email them or give them a call and see. I know it's difficult the way the new system is set up. It's a pain in the neck to try to get up with anyone! It's like trying to pull teeth.
 

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