Does NY SUNY Cap Clause Override Parties' Clause?

[seekinghelpny]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY
My divorce is in New York. At the time my ex-wife married in 1986 I was working at Syracuse University and recently completed my Master’s degree at Syracuse. I also received my Bachelor’s degree from Syracuse. As a fulltime employee my wife, my children and myself can all receive an Associate’s degree, Bachelor’s degree, Master’s degree, Professional Diploma, Ed. And PhD. from Syracuse. Our plan at the time was that our children would attend Syracuse. In 1992 we moved 45 miles away to a better school district for our children. I continued the 90 mile a day commute in order to keep the tuition remission benefit of Syracuse. In 1997 we divorced and put the following college expense clause in our divorce agreement:

ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that the Plaintiff and Defendant pay, in proportion to their respective incomes, the cost of a State University of New York, college education for the infant children, or Syracuse University education in lieu thereof if the Defendant is still employed by said university and is entitled to receive a tuition credit or remission for said infant children.

I remarried in 2001 and my current wife obtained an Ed from Syracuse. The point that I am making is that throughout my first marriage which lasted 10 years my ex-wife and I were very clear that our children would attend Syracuse. My ex-wife commented many times with family how fortunate we are that we have this benefit available to us. After our divorce my ex-wife began a campaign of parental alienation. I’ve endured years of visitation interference, unfounded CPS and police reports against me, I was falsely arrested and spend a night in jail, among other injustices. It got so bad that a judge had issued an Oder of Protection against my ex-wife to have her stay away from me but in the end all of the children resided with her. By 2006 my children stopped visiting me and talking to me. I filed a contempt petition against my ex-wife for visitation interference but the Judge said that my children who were age 12, 14 and 17 at the time could make up their own minds about visitation. In 2007 my 17 year old son began plans for college. I reminded him and his mother about our divorce clause. My interpretation of the clause is as long as I am still employed at Syracuse then my only obligation is a Syracuse education not a SUNY education. My son defiantly said he was going to Penn State and he would pay for it himself through loans. I did buy him a laptop, give him $1,500 for books, and another $1,000 to start off with. After he started school at Penn State he stopped communicating with me. I continued to call my children once a month seeking visits and counseling on their terms in order to resume visitation. I sent them gifts for birthdays, graduations, holidays and special occasions. So four years have gone by with no communication from my son or ex-wife regarding his college expenses. He graduated Penn State in June 2011. My ex-wife filed a petition seeking me to pay for his college expenses for the years at Penn State. Does she have any grounds?

 

[mistoffolees]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY
My divorce is in New York. At the time my ex-wife married in 1986 I was working at Syracuse University and recently completed my Master’s degree at Syracuse. I also received my Bachelor’s degree from Syracuse. As a fulltime employee my wife, my children and myself can all receive an Associate’s degree, Bachelor’s degree, Master’s degree, Professional Diploma, Ed. And PhD. from Syracuse. Our plan at the time was that our children would attend Syracuse. In 1992 we moved 45 miles away to a better school district for our children. I continued the 90 mile a day commute in order to keep the tuition remission benefit of Syracuse. In 1997 we divorced and put the following college expense clause in our divorce agreement:

ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that the Plaintiff and Defendant pay, in proportion to their respective incomes, the cost of a State University of New York, college education for the infant children, or Syracuse University education in lieu thereof if the Defendant is still employed by said university and is entitled to receive a tuition credit or remission for said infant children.

I remarried in 2001 and my current wife obtained an Ed from Syracuse. The point that I am making is that throughout my first marriage which lasted 10 years my ex-wife and I were very clear that our children would attend Syracuse. My ex-wife commented many times with family how fortunate we are that we have this benefit available to us. After our divorce my ex-wife began a campaign of parental alienation. I’ve endured years of visitation interference, unfounded CPS and police reports against me, I was falsely arrested and spend a night in jail, among other injustices. It got so bad that a judge had issued an Oder of Protection against my ex-wife to have her stay away from me but in the end all of the children resided with her. By 2006 my children stopped visiting me and talking to me. I filed a contempt petition against my ex-wife for visitation interference but the Judge said that my children who were age 12, 14 and 17 at the time could make up their own minds about visitation. In 2007 my 17 year old son began plans for college. I reminded him and his mother about our divorce clause. My interpretation of the clause is as long as I am still employed at Syracuse then my only obligation is a Syracuse education not a SUNY education. My son defiantly said he was going to Penn State and he would pay for it himself through loans. I did buy him a laptop, give him $1,500 for books, and another $1,000 to start off with. After he started school at Penn State he stopped communicating with me. I continued to call my children once a month seeking visits and counseling on their terms in order to resume visitation. I sent them gifts for birthdays, graduations, holidays and special occasions. So four years have gone by with no communication from my son or ex-wife regarding his college expenses. He graduated Penn State in June 2011. My ex-wife filed a petition seeking me to pay for his college expenses for the years at Penn State. Does she have any grounds?

Several issues:

1. Your court order says that you have to pay the cost of a SUNY education OR a Syracuse education. As I read it, if the kid goes to Syracuse, then you pay Syracuse, otherwise, you pay your pro-rated portion of the SUNY education. So you should have been paying. If you felt that the kid should have been going to Syracuse, you had 4 years to ask for an order clarifying the original order - and you didn't do anything about it.

2. Gifts for birthdays, holidays, etc, laptops, etc is not college tuition and doesn't count.

3. You can argue that OP can no longer collect because of unreasonable delays in requesting the money. However, the statute of limitations in New York for civil contract actions is 6 years, so that's probably not going to help you (unless you get an accommodating judge). I would definitely ask a local attorney, though. Some judges might consider waiting until the end unreasonable and might not require you to pay, but that would be sheer luck.

Sorry, but I think your ex-wife is right on this one. You owe her the pro-rated portion of the cost (although I would insist on a complete accounting to back out any grants or scholarships).

For others reading this thread, I would suggest that the wording in this order stinks.
- It should require that the student take advantage of the best deal available (free education at SU). If they choose something else, it should be their choice and obligation
- The order should specifically require the student to take advantage of available grants, scholarships, loans, etc and only require the parents to pay the difference
- Basing the amount on SUNY rates can be a problem. What happens if the kid goes to a school that costs 1/2 of what SUNY charges (some of the SUNY schools are terribly expensive)? Do the parents STILL have to pay the SUNY rate?
- Saying that the parents have to pay the SUNY rate is misleading. The SUNY system has a large number of colleges and the rates vary.
- No requirement on the child to maintain grades - or even to attend classes
- And the big one - I'm not convinced that a parent OWES a child a college education, anyway. Now, I'm going to do everything I can to ensure that my daughter gets a good education (probably post-graduate, as well), but I don't think that it should be ordered by the court when kids are infants. They're legal adults at age 18 and should be responsible for their own education. There are ways to do that without burdening Mom and Dad. (My 10 years of college cost my parents $50 for an application fee).

 

[You Are Guilty]

Misto - you do know Penn(sylvania) State is not part of the SUNY system, right? Where is your justification for saying the OP has to pay for an out-of-state private school tuition based on this one line of the divorce decree posted?

(And NY requires child support till 21, which is why you will frequently see college education payment provisions).

 

[seekinghelpny]

Thank you for the detailed response. How do you interpret the phrase "in lieu thereof". Doesn't "in lieu of" mean "instead of" so Syracuse would be instead of SUNY as long as I am employed at Syracuse. The intent is to have the children use the best deal possible which is Syracuse.

 

[mistoffolees]

Misto - you do know Penn(sylvania) State is not part of the SUNY system, right? Where is your justification for saying the OP has to pay for an out-of-state private school tuition based on this one line of the divorce decree posted?

(And NY requires child support till 21, which is why you will frequently see college education payment provisions).

It says that they have to pay THE COST OF a SUNY education. It does not say that they have to pay for a SUNY education. Since it is worded the way it is, I would read it to say that they have to pay THE COST OF a SUNY education - without regard to where the child actually goes.

Now, maybe courts there see it differently - which is why I suggested that OP see an attorney. But my interpretation is a plain reading of what the order says.

(And, btw, Penn State is not a private school).

 

[You Are Guilty]

It says that they have to pay THE COST OF a SUNY education. It does not say that they have to pay for a SUNY education. Since it is worded the way it is, I would read it to say that they have to pay THE COST OF a SUNY education - without regard to where the child actually goes.

Now, maybe courts there see it differently - which is why I suggested that OP see an attorney. But my interpretation is a plain reading of what the order says.

(And, btw, Penn State is not a private school).

In re-reading your original response, I may have read it too broadly. With this clarification, I can certainly agree it is one possible outcome, ie, paying a pro rata SUNY rate to be put towards any school tuition. Clearly, a judge is going to have to untangle this mess.

As few side issues remain though. Penn State, while a public school for PA residents, still charges private school tuition to out of staters:
http://tuition.psu.edu/tuitiondynamic/rates.aspx?location=up

And unlike Penn State which appears to charge different amounts by campus, SUNY tuition should be the same for all similarly situated schools (University v. University, College v. College, etc): http://www.suny.edu/student/paying_tuition.cfm

 

[mistoffolees]

In re-reading your original response, I may have read it too broadly. With this clarification, I can certainly agree it is one possible outcome, ie, paying a pro rata SUNY rate to be put towards any school tuition. Clearly, a judge is going to have to untangle this mess.

As few side issues remain though. Penn State, while a public school for PA residents, still charges private school tuition to out of staters:
Tuition Rates Fall

Once again, you are not correct. That is 'out of state' tuition. It is not 'private' tuition.

And unlike Penn State which appears to charge different amounts by campus, SUNY tuition should be the same for all similarly situated schools (University v. University, College v. College, etc): SUNY: Tuition and Fees

That is also not correct. For example in state tuition:
SUNY Binghamton (PhD granting institution): $5 K
SUNY Cornell (the SUNY portion of Cornell): $21 K
(I paid for my stepdaughter to attend SUNY Utica and tuition was well over $20 K at the time, as well).

There are also substantial differences between the community colleges.

Which begs the question from OP's court order. Which SUNY tuition is he required to pay? He could probably argue that he is only responsible for his share of the CHEAPEST SUNY tuition that was applicable for each year. Again, I can't predict whether a judge would buy that argument or not.

 

[seekinghelpny]

this says SUNY tuition is $5,270
SUNY: Tuition and Fees

 

[mistoffolees]

this says SUNY tuition is $5,270
SUNY: Tuition and Fees

What part of "Typical Expenses" do you not understand?

There are variations. As I said - I paid tuition to one SUNY school and went to school at another. Use just the example I gave. The tuition at the SUNY portion of Cornell is $21 K.

Of course, in your shoes, I would ask the court to limit it to the least expensive SUNY school tuition.

 

[You Are Guilty]

SUNY and Cornell have a contractual partnership (the same as with Alfred) which gives a break on tuition but Cornell is not "part" of the SUNY system, which is why there is a price discrepancy there. (Education Law s. 252). SUNY Buffalo and SUNY Albany, for example (Universities within the system), both charge $5,270, the statutory max for in-state residents.

As for Penn State, you are correct. The increase in price is due to "out of state", not "private". Since the OP's kid is out of state, the distinction in terms is rather academic, however. No matter what you call it, they're getting charged the increased rate. Might as well call it the "Bendover New Yorker Fee".

 

[TheGeekess]

SUNY and Cornell have a contractual partnership (the same as with Alfred) which gives a break on tuition but Cornell is not "part" of the SUNY system, which is why there is a price discrepancy there. (Education Law s. 252). SUNY Buffalo and SUNY Albany, for example (Universities within the system), both charge $5,270, the statutory max for in-state residents.

As for Penn State, you are correct. The increase in price is due to "out of state", not "private". Since the OP's kid is out of state, the distinction in terms is rather academic, however. No matter what you call it, they're getting charged the increased rate. Might as well call it the "Bendover New Yorker Fee".

Many state colleges charge out-of-state tuition. It's not just PA and NY.

 

[mistoffolees]

SUNY and Cornell have a contractual partnership (the same as with Alfred) which gives a break on tuition but Cornell is not "part" of the SUNY system, which is why there is a price discrepancy there. (Education Law s. 252). SUNY Buffalo and SUNY Albany, for example (Universities within the system), both charge $5,270, the statutory max for in-state residents.

As for Penn State, you are correct. The increase in price is due to "out of state", not "private". Since the OP's kid is out of state, the distinction in terms is rather academic, however. No matter what you call it, they're getting charged the increased rate. Might as well call it the "Bendover New Yorker Fee".

Well that (the bolded part) is odd because Cornell appears in the SUNY campus list:
SUNY: Complete Campus List

SUNY's web site also lists Cornell's Ag school as part of the SUNY program:
suny.edu - NYS COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE AND LIFE SCIENCES AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY

Given the vagueness of OP's order, it is not clear that Cornell can be excluded. However, given that MOST of the schools are around $5 K tuition per year, he could make a strong case for capping his payment at that amount.

 

[seekinghelpny]

I greatly appreciate all of the great information. I'm still stuck at the "in lieu of". I beleive the Syracuse option takes precedence over the "default" SUNY cap.
1) he left his furniture to the landlord in lieu of rent.
2) This express warranty is in lieu of all other warranties, express or implied.
3) The bank is asking if we would like to do a deed in lieu of foreclosure.
4) I was told I could take jail time in lieu of the fine.
5) Hair flower in lieu of a veil
6) Anyone ever use duct tape in lieu of rim tape?
7) How long can I leave potatoes in the ground? (in lieu of storage)
8) The parites children will attend Syracuse University in lieu of applying the SUNY cap
What do you think? fits right in with the others.

 

[mistoffolees]

I greatly appreciate all of the great information. I'm still stuck at the "in lieu of". I beleive the Syracuse option takes precedence over the "default" SUNY cap.
1) he left his furniture to the landlord in lieu of rent.
2) This express warranty is in lieu of all other warranties, express or implied.
3) The bank is asking if we would like to do a deed in lieu of foreclosure.
4) I was told I could take jail time in lieu of the fine.
5) Hair flower in lieu of a veil
6) Anyone ever use duct tape in lieu of rim tape?
7) How long can I leave potatoes in the ground? (in lieu of storage)
8) The parites children will attend Syracuse University in lieu of applying the SUNY cap
What do you think? fits right in with the others.

No, it doesn't- particularly because you're misquoting.
Your new attempt to distort things:
"The parites children will attend Syracuse University in lieu of applying the SUNY cap"

Original order:
"ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that the Plaintiff and Defendant pay, in proportion to their respective incomes, the cost of a State University of New York, college education for the infant children, or Syracuse University education in lieu thereof if the Defendant is still employed by said university and is entitled to receive a tuition credit or remission for said infant children."

It does not say that the kids WILL attend Syracuse. It says that you have to pay a portion of the cost OR can provide them a SU tuition credit. There is nothing in the order that REQUIRES them to choose the Syracuse option. The way it's ordered, they can choose either the cost of a SUNY education or a Syracuse education.

Continuing to argue isn't going to change things (and misquoting the order certainly won't help). It's a little vague so you need to see a local attorney to see how your court interprets it. As I read it, you owe a proportion based on your respective incomes of roughly $5 K x the number of years he went to school (using the actual figures for each year). Ask an attorney if your judge interprets it the same way.

 

[seekinghelpny]

mistoffolees - what do you think the use of 'in lieu of" means as used in the clause?