does this qualify as "post secondary Ed."

[Alex_Jones]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law) Indiana?

I am an Indiana resident and I have a son who graduated high school last spring, is 18 years old, and lives with his mother. He has a full time job, makes enough to support himself, but finds it financially beneficial to still live with his mother. This fall, he is enrolling in one and only one class at a local college. I asked him his rationale for this, and he says his mom suggested this to get his feet wet at going to college. My question is will this qualify as attending a post secondary school in order to prevent me from terminating child support?

AJ

 

[Banned_Princess]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law) Indiana?

I am an Indiana resident and I have a son who graduated high school last spring, is 18 years old, and lives with his mother. He has a full time job, makes enough to support himself, but finds it financially beneficial to still live with his mother. This fall, he is enrolling in one and only one class at a local college. I asked him his rationale for this, and he says his mom suggested this to get his feet wet at going to college. My question is will this qualify as attending a post secondary school in order to prevent me from terminating child support?

AJ

usually kid has to be enrolled as a full time student. one class is far from even part time student.

what do your CS orders say word for word, so we can have some insight as to if you should file for termination or not.

 

[Alex_Jones]

Context of the order.

The CS order existed within the Marital Settlement Agreement, signed by the judge. An order to withhold income was issued against the MSA. The line that ordered the child support is quoted below in it's entirety.

"Husband shall pay the sum of $180 dollars per week for the support and benefit of the parties' minor child. This obligation shall continue until the child reaches 21 years of age, becomes emancipated, or until further order of this court, whichever shall first occur. Such amount is derived from the Child Support Obligation Worksheet calculation, which is attached hereto and is incorporated within. Husband shall also pay to the clerk of the court the required annual support service fee."

Banned_Princess --> I was thinking the same thing. I suspect this is a maneuver to keep the CS coming. But I could not find anything that quantifies "how enrolled" a child has to be. The Indiana Law just says the child has to be enrolled. Just pay for one class to keep the $180 dollars a week flowing.

thanks for the response.

AJ

 

[Banned_Princess]

The CS order existed within the Marital Settlement Agreement, signed by the judge. An order to withhold income was issued against the MSA. The line that ordered the child support is quoted below in it's entirety.

"Husband shall pay the sum of $180 dollars per week for the support and benefit of the parties' minor child. This obligation shall continue until the child reaches 21 years of age, becomes emancipated, or until further order of this court, whichever shall first occur.

Such amount is derived from the Child Support Obligation Worksheet calculation, which is attached hereto and is incorporated within. Husband shall also pay to the clerk of the court the required annual support service fee."

Banned_Princess --> I was thinking the same thing. I suspect this is a maneuver to keep the CS coming. But I could not find anything that quantifies "how enrolled" a child has to be. The Indiana Law just says the child has to be enrolled. Just pay for one class to keep the $180 dollars a week flowing.

thanks for the response.

AJ

the bolded answers your own question.

you can file with the court a request to terminate payments but as far as the order you just posted, that weekly payment is good for another 3 years. school or no school.

 

[Alex_Jones]

Re:

the bolded answers your own question.

you can file with the court a request to terminate payments but as far as the order you just posted, that weekly payment is good for another 3 years. school or no school.

OK, I'm not a lawyer, but here is where I am confused. This is a quote of the applicable Indiana Code 31-16-6-6

BEGIN

Sec. 6. (a) The duty to support a child under this chapter ceases when the child becomes twenty-one (21) years of age unless any of the following conditions occurs:
(1) The child is emancipated before becoming twenty-one (21) years of age. In this case the child support, except for the educational needs outlined in section 2(a)(1) of this chapter, terminates at the time of emancipation, although an order for educational needs may continue in effect until further order of the court.
(2) The child is incapacitated. In this case the child support continues during the incapacity or until further order of the court.
(3) The child:
(A) is at least eighteen (18) years of age;
(B) has not attended a secondary school or postsecondary educational institution for the prior four (4) months and is not enrolled in a secondary school or postsecondary educational institution; and
(C) is or is capable of supporting himself or herself through employment.
In this case the child support terminates upon the court's finding that the conditions prescribed in this subdivision exist. However, if the court finds that the conditions set forth in clauses (A) through (C) are met but that the child is only partially supporting or is capable of only partially supporting himself or herself, the court may order that support be modified instead of terminated.

END

I am for sure he meets sections 6 (a) (3) (A) and (C), its just section (B) I still have questions on. I think my ex is aware of this law, and has enrolled in the one class to nullify condition (B) of this subsection. I figure I can get a court order, which would be first before meeting the age of 21, IF I can show all cases for 6(a) (3) (A)(B) and (C) are met. But does this ONE class he's enrolled in let her keep the payments coming?

 

[Banned_Princess]

OK, I'm not a lawyer, but here is where I am confused. This is a quote of the applicable Indiana Code 31-16-6-6-6

BEGIN

Sec. 6. (a) The duty to support a child under this chapter ceases when the child becomes twenty-one (21) years of age unless any of the following conditions occurs:
(1) The child is emancipated before becoming twenty-one (21) years of age. In this case the child support, except for the educational needs outlined in section 2(a)(1) of this chapter, terminates at the time of emancipation, although an order for educational needs may continue in effect until further order of the court.
(2) The child is incapacitated. In this case the child support continues during the incapacity or until further order of the court.
(3) The child:
(A) is at least eighteen (18) years of age;
(B) has not attended a secondary school or postsecondary educational institution for the prior four (4) months and is not enrolled in a secondary school or postsecondary educational institution; and
(C) is or is capable of supporting himself or herself through employment.
In this case the child support terminates upon the court's finding that the conditions prescribed in this subdivision exist. However, if the court finds that the conditions set forth in clauses (A) through (C) are met but that the child is only partially supporting or is capable of only partially supporting himself or herself, the court may order that support be modified instead of terminated.

END

I am for sure he meets sections 6 (a) (3) (A) and (C), its just section (B) I still have questions on. I think my ex is aware of this law, and has enrolled in the one class to nullify condition (B) of this subsection. I figure I can get a court order, which would be first before meeting the age of 21, IF I can show all cases for 6(a) (3) (A)(B) and (C) are met. But does this ONE class he's enrolled in let her keep the payments coming?

but your current order is clear. which is what you go by. not the default state law.

you are free to get a few legal opinions from local lawyers, they should be able to address your concerns, and if they feel like they can get you out of 3 more years of weekly payments, decide which cost is less, and do that.

 

[LdiJ]

but your current order is clear. which is what you go by. not the default state law.

you are free to get a few legal opinions from local lawyers, they should be able to address your concerns, and if they feel like they can get you out of 3 more years of weekly payments, decide which cost is less, and do that.

It really would depend on the judge. Many Indiana judges would consider his child to be emancipated in this scenario.

 

[nextwife]

You should file for emancipation. Getting support while having the adult student attend one class is an abuse of the intent of the child support post secondary support law.

 

[mistoffolees]

It really would depend on the judge. Many Indiana judges would consider his child to be emancipated in this scenario.

How would you know that? We don't know anything about the scenario except that he's living with Mom and taking one class a semester. I don't see anything that suggests that he's emancipated.

The law is:
Indiana Emancipation of Minor Law - Emancipation - Minors
"(a) The juvenile court may emancipate a child under section 1(5) of this chapter if the court finds that the child:

(1) wishes to be free from parental control and protection and no longer needs that control and protection;
(2) has sufficient money for the child’s own support;
(3) understands the consequences of being free from parental control and protection; and
(4) has an acceptable plan for independent living."

Since the kid is living with Mom, it doesn't appear that the first item is met - even if he meets the other 3.

Furthermore, in IN (see the same URL), emancipation doesn't automatically mean that CS ends. The judge MAY terminate CS in the event of emancipation, not SHALL.

 

[Zigner]

First...emancipation with regard to child support obligations is NOT the same as emancipation as it relates to a minor child.

Second...The court order and the state statute are in agreement with each other. They BOTH say that the court would have to order that child support be stopped. It is not automatic before the child is 21. Dad will need to head to court to have this decided.

 

[LdiJ]

How would you know that? We don't know anything about the scenario except that he's living with Mom and taking one class a semester. I don't see anything that suggests that he's emancipated.

The law is:
Indiana Emancipation of Minor Law - Emancipation - Minors
"(a) The juvenile court may emancipate a child under section 1(5) of this chapter if the court finds that the child:

(1) wishes to be free from parental control and protection and no longer needs that control and protection;
(2) has sufficient money for the child’s own support;
(3) understands the consequences of being free from parental control and protection; and
(4) has an acceptable plan for independent living."

Since the kid is living with Mom, it doesn't appear that the first item is met - even if he meets the other 3.

Furthermore, in IN (see the same URL), emancipation doesn't automatically mean that CS ends. The judge MAY terminate CS in the event of emancipation, not SHALL.

You missed the part about the fact that the child is working full time and therefore supporting (or able to support) himself. THAT is the reason why an Indiana judge might very well consider him to be emancipated.

 

[mistoffolees]

You missed the part about the fact that the child is working full time and therefore supporting (or able to support) himself. THAT is the reason why an Indiana judge might very well consider him to be emancipated.

And you missed the law in the state that says that emancipation can occur when:
"wishes to be free from parental control and protection and no longer needs that control and protection;"

Since the child is living with Mom, it's hard to figure how that's going to occur.

Once again, it's really amazing that you know how a judge is going to rule without knowing ANY of the specifics of the situation - even when your guess is contrary to state law.

 

[LdiJ]

And you missed the law in the state that says that emancipation can occur when:
"wishes to be free from parental control and protection and no longer needs that control and protection;"

Since the child is living with Mom, it's hard to figure how that's going to occur.

Once again, it's really amazing that you know how a judge is going to rule without knowing ANY of the specifics of the situation - even when your guess is contrary to state law.

You quoted the law regarding emancipated minors...not the law regarding child support. One is no longer a minor in Indiana at age 18, therefore that law would not apply to someone 18 or older.

Its the child support law that matters. In Indiana child support goes to age 21 unless the child is married, has joined the military, is not in post secondary education, or is self supporting.

Since this adult is working full time, and is only plans on attending one post secondary class its quite likely that the child would be considered as emancipated from child support.

 

[LdiJ]

Here is the correct statute:

Termination or modification of child support; emancipation of child
Sec. 6. (a) The duty to support a child under this chapter ceases when the child becomes twenty-one (21) years of age unless any of the following conditions occurs:
(1) The child is emancipated before becoming twenty-one (21) years of age. In this case the child support, except for the educational needs outlined in section 2(a)(1) of this chapter, terminates at the time of emancipation, although an order for educational needs may continue in effect until further order of the court.
(2) The child is incapacitated. In this case the child support continues during the incapacity or until further order of the court.
(3) The child:
(A) is at least eighteen (18) years of age;
(B) has not attended a secondary school or postsecondary educational institution for the prior four (4) months and is not enrolled in a secondary school or postsecondary educational institution; and
(C) is or is capable of supporting himself or herself through employment.
In this case the child support terminates upon the court's finding that the conditions prescribed in this subdivision exist. However, if the court finds that the conditions set forth in

clauses (A) through (C) are met but that the child is only partially supporting or is capable of only partially supporting himself or herself, the court may order that support be modified instead of terminated.
(b) For purposes of determining if a child is emancipated under subsection (a)(1), if the court finds that the child:
(1) is on active duty in the United States armed services;
(2) has married; or
(3) is not under the care or control of:
(A) either parent; or
(B) an individual or agency approved by the court;
the court shall find the child emancipated and terminate the child support

 

[mistoffolees]

Here is the correct statute:

Termination or modification of child support; emancipation of child
Sec. 6. (a) The duty to support a child under this chapter ceases when the child becomes twenty-one (21) years of age unless any of the following conditions occurs:
(1) The child is emancipated before becoming twenty-one (21) years of age. In this case the child support, except for the educational needs outlined in section 2(a)(1) of this chapter, terminates at the time of emancipation, although an order for educational needs may continue in effect until further order of the court.
(2) The child is incapacitated. In this case the child support continues during the incapacity or until further order of the court.
(3) The child:
(A) is at least eighteen (18) years of age;
(B) has not attended a secondary school or postsecondary educational institution for the prior four (4) months and is not enrolled in a secondary school or postsecondary educational institution; and
(C) is or is capable of supporting himself or herself through employment.
In this case the child support terminates upon the court's finding that the conditions prescribed in this subdivision exist. However, if the court finds that the conditions set forth in

clauses (A) through (C) are met but that the child is only partially supporting or is capable of only partially supporting himself or herself, the court may order that support be modified instead of terminated.
(b) For purposes of determining if a child is emancipated under subsection (a)(1), if the court finds that the child:
(1) is on active duty in the United States armed services;
(2) has married; or
(3) is not under the care or control of:
(A) either parent; or
(B) an individual or agency approved by the court;
the court shall find the child emancipated and terminate the child support

Holy cow! Ld actually provided a statute.

Unfortunately, the above begs the question. It says that CS can be terminated if the child is emancipated, but doesn't define emancipation. It's not clear that a kid living with Mom is emancipated. If the child is able to fully support himself (under the statute), why isn't he?

More importantly, we don't know what the decree says. The exact wording of the decree is going to matter here.