hawaii law and and the total picture

[davekiss]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? HAWAII

hello All,

I lived in hawaii and married and had a baby girl born in 2000....after three years I had enough and threw the wife out...we each put TRO on each other. I kept my daughter. She called CPS and accused me of abuse against the child of the most horrible nature. So we go to court and the judge honors my TRO but not hers and gives me temporary custody while the investigation goes on. Long story short, CPS investigates and gives me custody and my wife can have supervised visits. The supervised visits are once a week and that goes fine for about 6 weeks and we go back to court. So the judge asks me if he thinks the mother can have the child on weekends unsupervised. I say yes. So thats how it goes for the next TEN YEARS...during this time we get an uncontested divorce and joint custody. BUT, like I said, my daughter was with me 10 years and saw her mom on weekends. They did not get along. More like sisters. So 10 years go by, I remarried after 7....no child support was exchanged this whole 10 years. I asked for none and she offered none. The way her brain works is that she insisted weekends were equal to weedays because she was in school weekdays. Anyway**************.....in 2013 when my daughter was 13 my mom back in NY got altheimers disease and without going into the details, my wife and I needed to go back and care for my mother. In hawaii, you cannot take a child away from the other parent. Besides we had joint custody in the divorce degree. And, my daughter was very into her friends and had a bus pass and was a city girl and taking her to upstate NY where she would have to be driven everywhere and be a stranger so it was decided she would stay. So we made a verbal agreement that I send some money every month for her bus pass and food and health care. In 3 years I sent money every month and brought her to visit NY 4x and visited there in hawaii once. She is coming in 29 days for a 5th visit.

Anyway, the ex and I had a argument over a trip that she decided on, sending my daughter on a school trip to europe costing 3500.00 and without consulting me, informed me I had to pay half....I told her no. My ex does not like being told no. I dont mind so much the trip except i was planning to take her for high school grad present to europe myself and can only afford one or the other. I discussed w my daughter and she will go w the school and i'll just give her my car when she grads as she is coming here for college. But I am punishing my ex by only paying 1000 toward the trip because she cant spend my money for me. She has to discuss 1st, spend after I agree. She is lucky she is even getting 1000 as I am out of work since March.

So this brings me to my question....when she learned i'll only pay a portion of the trip the **** hit the fan and the angry texts started and the threats to not let her come june 30th...and threats to go to court to get court appointed child support. I told her that if she does not allow my daughter to come, I will deduct money from the monthly payment until the 900 is paid off...non refundable tickets. So she flipped out again....but my question is...when and if, she goes to court to file for child support, what can I expect to happen......thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Silverplum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? HAWAII

hello All,

I lived in hawaii and married and had a baby girl born in 2000....after three years I had enough and threw the wife out...we each put TRO on each other. I kept my daughter. She called CPS and accused me of abuse against the child of the most horrible nature. So we go to court and the judge honors my TRO but not hers and gives me temporary custody while the investigation goes on. Long story short, CPS investigates and gives me custody and my wife can have supervised visits. The supervised visits are once a week and that goes fine for about 6 weeks and we go back to court. So the judge asks me if he thinks the mother can have the child on weekends unsupervised. I say yes. So thats how it goes for the next TEN YEARS...during this time we get an uncontested divorce and joint custody. BUT, like I said, my daughter was with me 10 years and saw her mom on weekends. They did not get along. More like sisters. So 10 years go by, I remarried after 7....no child support was exchanged this whole 10 years. I asked for none and she offered none. The way her brain works is that she insisted weekends were equal to weedays because she was in school weekdays. Anyway**************.....in 2013 when my daughter was 13 my mom back in NY got altheimers disease and without going into the details, my wife and I needed to go back and care for my mother. In hawaii, you cannot take a child away from the other parent. Besides we had joint custody in the divorce degree. And, my daughter was very into her friends and had a bus pass and was a city girl and taking her to upstate NY where she would have to be driven everywhere and be a stranger so it was decided she would stay. So we made a verbal agreement that I send some money every month for her bus pass and food and health care. In 3 years I sent money every month and brought her to visit NY 4x and visited there in hawaii once. She is coming in 29 days for a 5th visit.

Anyway, the ex and I had a argument over a trip that she decided on, sending my daughter on a school trip to europe costing 3500.00 and without consulting me, informed me I had to pay half....I told her no. My ex does not like being told no. I dont mind so much the trip except i was planning to take her for high school grad present to europe myself and can only afford one or the other. I discussed w my daughter and she will go w the school and i'll just give her my car when she grads as she is coming here for college. But I am punishing my ex by only paying 1000 toward the trip because she cant spend my money for me. She has to discuss 1st, spend after I agree. She is lucky she is even getting 1000 as I am out of work since March.

So this brings me to my question....when she learned i'll only pay a portion of the trip the **** hit the fan and the angry texts started and the threats to not let her come june 30th...and threats to go to court to get court appointed child support. I told her that if she does not allow my daughter to come, I will deduct money from the monthly payment until the 900 is paid off...non refundable tickets. So she flipped out again....but my question is...when and if, she goes to court to file for child support, what can I expect to happen......thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can expect to be assessed for the guideline amount of child support in HI.

http://www.courts.state.hi.us/self-help/courts/forms/oahu/child_support

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? HAWAII

hello All,

I lived in hawaii and married and had a baby girl born in 2000....after three years I had enough and threw the wife out...we each put TRO on each other. I kept my daughter. She called CPS and accused me of abuse against the child of the most horrible nature. So we go to court and the judge honors my TRO but not hers and gives me temporary custody while the investigation goes on. Long story short, CPS investigates and gives me custody and my wife can have supervised visits. The supervised visits are once a week and that goes fine for about 6 weeks and we go back to court. So the judge asks me if he thinks the mother can have the child on weekends unsupervised. I say yes. So thats how it goes for the next TEN YEARS...during this time we get an uncontested divorce and joint custody. BUT, like I said, my daughter was with me 10 years and saw her mom on weekends. They did not get along. More like sisters. So 10 years go by, I remarried after 7....no child support was exchanged this whole 10 years. I asked for none and she offered none. The way her brain works is that she insisted weekends were equal to weedays because she was in school weekdays. Anyway**************.....in 2013 when my daughter was 13 my mom back in NY got altheimers disease and without going into the details, my wife and I needed to go back and care for my mother. In hawaii, you cannot take a child away from the other parent. Besides we had joint custody in the divorce degree. And, my daughter was very into her friends and had a bus pass and was a city girl and taking her to upstate NY where she would have to be driven everywhere and be a stranger so it was decided she would stay. So we made a verbal agreement that I send some money every month for her bus pass and food and health care. In 3 years I sent money every month and brought her to visit NY 4x and visited there in hawaii once. She is coming in 29 days for a 5th visit.

Anyway, the ex and I had a argument over a trip that she decided on, sending my daughter on a school trip to europe costing 3500.00 and without consulting me, informed me I had to pay half....I told her no. My ex does not like being told no. I dont mind so much the trip except i was planning to take her for high school grad present to europe myself and can only afford one or the other. I discussed w my daughter and she will go w the school and i'll just give her my car when she grads as she is coming here for college. But I am punishing my ex by only paying 1000 toward the trip because she cant spend my money for me. She has to discuss 1st, spend after I agree. She is lucky she is even getting 1000 as I am out of work since March.

So this brings me to my question....when she learned i'll only pay a portion of the trip the **** hit the fan and the angry texts started and the threats to not let her come june 30th...and threats to go to court to get court appointed child support. I told her that if she does not allow my daughter to come, I will deduct money from the monthly payment until the 900 is paid off...non refundable tickets. So she flipped out again....but my question is...when and if, she goes to court to file for child support, what can I expect to happen......thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would expect that you will be ordered to pay child support. I would also expect that a custody and visitation schedule will be implemented with MOM being the custodial parent and you paying the majority of the travel expenses. The mud you brought up at the beginning of the thread is irrelevant, as you have seen fit to leave your child with her mother for THREE YEARS. You obviously consider mom to be a fit parent.

 

[Silverplum]

To answer the implied question, that IS "the total picture." The past is what you chose. If Mom files for CS, she'll get it.

 

[davekiss]

To answer the implied question, that IS "the total picture." The past is what you chose. If Mom files for CS, she'll get it.

So the court will not ask her why she is showing up in june 2016 when the divorce was in 2004? And since all you people say this is a new case, then what if I show up in hawaii and say I'll just have my daughter live with me? Divorce papers say she is mine...and since you all say the past is the past, then that means the last 3 years is the past too. Or will the judge be like you folks and pick whick part of the last 13 years is the past and which part isn't...pick n choose what you like and disregard what you dont like. And my daughter is 16, how much say dos she have? And I am having less and less faith that the folks who reply here actually know anything about real courts and judges.

 

[davekiss]

I would expect that you will be ordered to pay child support. I would also expect that a custody and visitation schedule will be implemented with MOM being the custodial parent and you paying the majority of the travel expenses. The mud you brought up at the beginning of the thread is irrelevant, as you have seen fit to leave your child with her mother for THREE YEARS. You obviously consider mom to be a fit parent.

I already pay ALL the travel expenses....its almost as if you never read my post. I did not put my child in the middle....she did by saying she would not let her go to ny on june 30th unless i pay the europe trip....read what i'm saying instead of what you think im saying...or dont reply....and you dont think the judge is going to ask her why she is showing up in the court 12 years after the divorce? You dont think the judge will be curious about where the child lived for 13 years? I think you know very little, w the how dare you this n that.

 

[Just Blue]

So the court will not ask her why she is showing up in june 2016 when the divorce was in 2004? And since all you people say this is a new case, then what if I show up in hawaii and say I'll just have my daughter live with me? Divorce papers say she is mine...and since you all say the past is the past, then that means the last 3 years is the past too. Or will the judge be like you folks and pick whick part of the last 13 years is the past and which part isn't...pick n choose what you like and disregard what you dont like. And my daughter is 16, how much say dos she have? And I am having less and less faith that the folks who reply here actually know anything about real courts and judges.

So go to HI and hire a "real" Attorney to advise you...

 

[Just Blue]

I already pay ALL the travel expenses....its almost as if you never read my post. I did not put my child in the middle....she did by saying she would not let her go to ny on june 30th unless i pay the europe trip....read what i'm saying instead of what you think im saying...or dont reply....and you dont think the judge is going to ask her why she is showing up in the court 12 years after the divorce? You dont think the judge will be curious about where the child lived for 13 years? I think you know very little, w the how dare you this n that.

1. No
2. No

 

[tranquility]

I think the OP has many valid arguments. I think the bottom line is that he needs an attorney to deal with this incredibly complex situation. If the result is unimportant, he can do it on his own.

 

[davekiss]

i read all the remarks

you know what? Some of you sound like angry women who had bad experiences w men.....i can hear the bitterness in some of the remarks.

do you all understand that as a man, i went to court and fought for custody of my baby, who was 3....and was a single dad for the next 7 years b4 remarrying?
I cooked and cleaned, washed clothes, tried to run a business that was going down the drain...but was there every day, never using a baby sitter. I'm the one they called from school if she got sick and i'm the one who stayed up all night when she had flu and nightmares. I made the braids n ponytails. And when my mom got sick in ny...do you have any idea how tortuous that choice was to make...how guilty i felt....how empty it feels to raise a child for 13 years, 7 by urself then just gone 6000 miles....but we text and talk EVERY SINGLE DAY and 5 visits paid 100% by me in 3 years w another set for this month.....you guys need to think b4 you type....

most men will give their children away...not me....i wish u all could talk to my daughter and ask her which parent she has bonded with and who she would live with given the choice.....u know what? I might just go back and take it to court myself. I have a house in NY where she has her own bedroom and in hawaii, my ex remarried and they have a baby, so 4 of them in a 1 bedroom aprtment, squeezed in. I bet I can win and I will get a lawyer.....

 

[tranquility]

I bet I can win and I will get a lawyer.....

While I agree with the sentiment, the idea is not to "win", but to have a neutral arbiter help decide what is best for the child. I think you have many valid arguments. But, the court may decide you must do more than you think fair. I am not one to blindly follow what someone else says about my life, even a court. YOU must decide what is best. Even if the court holds differently; accept the fact the judge does not hate you or want bad things to happen for your child.

 

[Silverplum]

you know what? Some of you sound like angry women who had bad experiences w men.....i can hear the bitterness in some of the remarks.

do you all understand that as a man, i went to court and fought for custody of my baby, who was 3....and was a single dad for the next 7 years b4 remarrying?
I cooked and cleaned, washed clothes, tried to run a business that was going down the drain...but was there every day, never using a baby sitter. I'm the one they called from school if she got sick and i'm the one who stayed up all night when she had flu and nightmares. I made the braids n ponytails. And when my mom got sick in ny...do you have any idea how tortuous that choice was to make...how guilty i felt....how empty it feels to raise a child for 13 years, 7 by urself then just gone 6000 miles....but we text and talk EVERY SINGLE DAY and 5 visits paid 100% by me in 3 years w another set for this month.....you guys need to think b4 you type....

most men will give their children away...not me....i wish u all could talk to my daughter and ask her which parent she has bonded with and who she would live with given the choice.....u know what? I might just go back and take it to court myself. I have a house in NY where she has her own bedroom and in hawaii, my ex remarried and they have a baby, so 4 of them in a 1 bedroom aprtment, squeezed in. I bet I can win and I will get a lawyer.....

I gave you the law. Why you want to make gender wars of your thread, I can't imagine.

 

[stealth2]

So the court will not ask her why she is showing up in june 2016 when the divorce was in 2004? And since all you people say this is a new case, then what if I show up in hawaii and say I'll just have my daughter live with me? Divorce papers say she is mine...and since you all say the past is the past, then that means the last 3 years is the past too. Or will the judge be like you folks and pick whick part of the last 13 years is the past and which part isn't...pick n choose what you like and disregard what you dont like. And my daughter is 16, how much say dos she have? And I am having less and less faith that the folks who reply here actually know anything about real courts and judges.

Here are a few realities that you may not understand.

In HI, you will have to go to court to relocate the child to a different state. You chose not to do so three years ago, but you will have to now - you cannot simply pick your daughter up and take her to live in NY. Mom now has status quo of the child living with her for three years. It is not a matter of "picking" a part of 13 years, but of the most recent situation. Which is kiddo living in HI with Mom. For three years. Six months is usually considered enough to establish status quo - Mom has six times that.

Your choosing not to file for child support during the 10 years you had your daughter does not negate Mom's right to file for CS now. Once there is an order, you will not get to choose to deduct from the amount because you don't like how she spends it (and, BTW, it is her money, not yours - she does not need your okay on expenditures).

At 16, a judge MAY allow your daughter to express her wishes. But she will not get to choose who she lives with. And she'd better have better reasons that "Mom and I argue, she's mean, she makes me do chores, etc."

It sounds as though there is no parenting time schedule currently ordered. Mom doesn't have to send her.

And yes, you DID bring kiddo into it when you spoke with her about paying for the trip, etc. Not cool.

And now, to move away from the legal stuff and to the practical. Specifically her going to college in NY. She might, she might not. Given her age, I'm guessing that she's finishing her sophomore year of HS? A lot can change in two years. She may decide that she wants to go elsewhere. She may not get accepted to a college of her choice in NYS. And then how is it going to be paid for? You DO realize that in order to get in-state tuition, SHE has to reside in NYS for a year prior to getting that exemption, right? (Or is that really what all of this is about?) A SUNY may not be a fit for her, depending on interests, etc. And even if she gets a great financial package (including loans) at a private school, she may find that there is still housing, incidentals, etc. to cover.

Even apart from all that - if she is a "city girl" as you indicated, a school upstate NY may not be a good fit. I have one of each - a city kid and a country kid. Oldest *needed* to be in a city, while youngest (who actually did go to college in central NYS) would have hated that. Both are/have settled in their respective environments.

It is hard, I know. You were faced with a difficult choice when moving to care for your Mom, and I would imagine that there is a measure of buyer's remorse involved (especially as your mother's disease progresses - believe me, I KNOW how tough that is). And most of us, as parents, second-guess every decision we make (or have made, or will make). But second-guessing is pointless. While it may not be the way YOU would like it to be, give your daughter the gift of her last two years of childhood filled with friends, in the place she is familiar with, with a close emotional relationship with her Dad, despite the physical distance between you. Keep your eye on the "prize" - a good relationship with you ADULT daughter.

 

[Zigner]

you know what? Some of you sound like angry women who had bad experiences w men.....i can hear the bitterness in some of the remarks.

do you all understand that as a man, i went to court and fought for custody of my baby, who was 3....and was a single dad for the next 7 years b4 remarrying?
I cooked and cleaned, washed clothes, tried to run a business that was going down the drain...but was there every day, never using a baby sitter. I'm the one they called from school if she got sick and i'm the one who stayed up all night when she had flu and nightmares. I made the braids n ponytails. And when my mom got sick in ny...do you have any idea how tortuous that choice was to make...how guilty i felt....how empty it feels to raise a child for 13 years, 7 by urself then just gone 6000 miles....but we text and talk EVERY SINGLE DAY and 5 visits paid 100% by me in 3 years w another set for this month.....you guys need to think b4 you type....

most men will give their children away...not me....i wish u all could talk to my daughter and ask her which parent she has bonded with and who she would live with given the choice.....u know what? I might just go back and take it to court myself. I have a house in NY where she has her own bedroom and in hawaii, my ex remarried and they have a baby, so 4 of them in a 1 bedroom aprtment, squeezed in. I bet I can win and I will get a lawyer.....

AHEM...

I was a single father to my THREE kids for many years before remarrying.

 

[stealth2]

AHEM...

I was a single father to my THREE kids for many years before remarrying. Take your assumptions and shove off.

But did you do braids & ponytails?

Yes, OP, now I'm ribbing you a bit. Parents do what is needed for their kids, be it laundry, cooking, learning to braid hair, etc. This is NOT a gender thing. Really. I raised one of each. Then.... (LOL some will "get" that.) Even as a Mom, *I* had to learn how to do hair. *I* had to teach a kiddo how to pee standing up. *I* had to teach kiddo how to shave the face. *I* had to teach the kids (both) to throw/hit/catch a baseball, throw/catch a football and how to tackle, pitch a tent, build a fire, cook, do laundry, etc. And *I* had to adjust my expectations based on the people my kids were becoming.

Regardless of gender, there are no real prizes. Unless you count (as I do) the relationship you have when they're grown. But that is between you and your child. Not something you get from others. Because what you are doing is your job. As a parent.