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He's dodging the law in Tennessee

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msst

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Tennessee
My NCP of my 4 year old twins claims to be self employed although he is employed by his grandfather who pays cash under the table so there is no check that can garnished for my child support I know this can not be legal but how do I get him caught?
 


CandiceH

Member
Do a search of the site. There are many CP's out there asking this same question and it is pretty "darn" hard since the funds are untraceable. Is he filing income tax?
 
msst said:
What is the name of your state? Tennessee
My NCP of my 4 year old twins claims to be self employed although he is employed by his grandfather who pays cash under the table so there is no check that can garnished for my child support I know this can not be legal but how do I get him caught?
This may be dirty pool:cool: ...but if you felt it was your civic duty as an American taxpayer to report suspected tax fraud to the IRS, you would be well within your rights to report the suspicion about Grandpa as the payer and him as the receiver;) ...Do you have his SS#, current address and a suspicion? You don't even need the SS#.. their address and suspicion is enough...But if you do have everything, more is better...Do a google search on reporting tax fraud, and you can find the toll free number... This does not guarantee that he will get audited, but he may move closer to the top of the pile of people who do get audited;) _ You may not want to even do this, but after dealing with my ex I am feeling pretty mean today;)
 
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Just Blue

Senior Member
critterperson said:
This may be dirty pool:cool: ...but if you felt it was your civic duty as an American taxpayer to report suspected tax fraud to the IRS, you would be well within your rights to report the suspicion about Grandpa as the payer and him as the receiver;) ...Do you have his SS#, current address and a suspicion? You don't even need the SS#.. their address and suspicion is enough...But if you do have everything, more is better...Do a google search on reporting tax fraud, and you can find the toll free number... This does not guarantee that he will get audited, but he may move closer to the top of the pile of people who do get audited;) _ You may not want to even do this, but after dealing with my ex I am feeling pretty mean today;)
When I first read her post I had the same idea.....and I wasn't dealing with my ex today..hee hee hee...:cool:
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
You know....many people use the term "under the table" for people who are honestly treated as contractors and receive 1099s at the end of the year.

Unless his grandfather runs a business that is primarily cash, and grandad can hide income.. there is little chance that his grandfather would be willing to shoulder his tax burden...just to pay him under the table.

The end result is the same...there is no paycheck to garnish, but that doesn't automatically mean that either of them aren't properly reporting their earnings for tax purposes.

It doesn't mean that the are either...its just something that people need to understand.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
You know....many people use the term "under the table" for people who are honestly treated as contractors and receive 1099s at the end of the year.

Unless his grandfather runs a business that is primarily cash, and grandad can hide income.. there is little chance that his grandfather would be willing to shoulder his tax burden...just to pay him under the table.

The end result is the same...there is no paycheck to garnish, but that doesn't automatically mean that either of them aren't properly reporting their earnings for tax purposes.

It doesn't mean that the are either...its just something that people need to understand.
Exactly. And there are conrtractors who incur their own expenses, pay for their own equipment and materials, their own marketing and advertising costs, etc. Therefore their actual income from the business is LESS than the amount on the combined 1099s, and so that would be reflected in a lower tax burden. For example, when I worked as a real estate agent, I was an independent contractor, not an "employee", and covered many expenses out of what I was paid.
 
nextwife said:
Exactly. And there are conrtractors who incur their own expenses, pay for their own equipment and materials, their own marketing and advertising costs, etc. Therefore their actual income from the business is LESS than the amount on the combined 1099s, and so that would be reflected in a lower tax burden. For example, when I worked as a real estate agent, I was an independent contractor, not an "employee", and covered many expenses out of what I was paid.
Her post indicated "cash" under the table...If you are receiving a 1099 regardless of what your expenses are, you would still have an income reported at the end of the year (tax return)...She indicated that this person is reporting no income...There is a big difference! If you receive an income, even if every penny could be written off as a tax deduction so you owe no taxes, you still have to file a tax return at the end of the year...Also, most business expenses unless they are in repayment of a debt are not deductible for child support (at least that is how it works in Illinois)…
 

haiku

Senior Member
critterperson said:
Her post indicated "cash" under the table...If you are receiving a 1099 regardless of what your expenses are, you would still have an income reported at the end of the year (tax return)...She indicated that this person is reporting no income...There is a big difference! If you receive an income, even if every penny could be written off as a tax deduction so you owe no taxes, you still have to file a tax return at the end of the year...Also, most business expenses unless they are in repayment of a debt are not deductible for child support (at least that is how it works in Illinois)…
No the OP just said CASH. That thier was no check to garnish. Which is the case with a lot of self employed. (I am self employed, kinda pointless to garnish MYSELF)and depending on how grandpa employs this guy, he may not be legally obligated to garnish.

She made no mention of a tax return, every body else did. one thing regarding the tax return, she makes no mention of the past but if she ever shared space on a tax return with this guy she may want to think BEFORE she reports him.

And we are not talking about illinois here.....
 

GrowUp!

Senior Member
msst said:
What is the name of your state? Tennessee
My NCP of my 4 year old twins claims to be self employed although he is employed by his grandfather who pays cash under the table so there is no check that can garnished for my child support I know this can not be legal but how do I get him caught?
You know this can't be legal, huh?

Please provide the FACTS to substantiate your claim there is something illegal going on.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
critterperson said:
Her post indicated "cash" under the table...If you are receiving a 1099 regardless of what your expenses are, you would still have an income reported at the end of the year (tax return)...She indicated that this person is reporting no income...There is a big difference! If you receive an income, even if every penny could be written off as a tax deduction so you owe no taxes, you still have to file a tax return at the end of the year...
Just because someone receives their pay in cash doesn't mean that the don't receive a 1099 or file a tax return. I processed 1099's this year for MANY people who paid their subcontractors in cash. She also didn't say that he was reporting no income, just that there wasn't a check to garnish.

Also, most business expenses unless they are in repayment of a debt are not deductible for child support (at least that is how it works in Illinois)…
You are dead wrong that IL makes self-employed people pay income tax on their gross (prior to business expenses) rather than net income. It may have happened to someone who handled their child support case poorly, but I guarantee you that its not public policy.
 
LdiJ said:
Just because someone receives their pay in cash doesn't mean that the don't receive a 1099 or file a tax return. I processed 1099's this year for MANY people who paid their subcontractors in cash. She also didn't say that he was reporting no income, just that there wasn't a check to garnish.



You are dead wrong that IL makes self-employed people pay income tax on their gross (prior to business expenses) rather than net income. It may have happened to someone who handled their child support case poorly, but I guarantee you that its not public policy.
I think you may have misunderstood my post...I was saying that child support is based on Income less applicable taxes, (if you have a lot of write offs you might not have to pay any tax) and some business expenses are not allowed to reduce net for child support in Illinois... Illinois bases child support on Gross less applicable taxes (only taxes you actually pay) This is a direct Quote from case law in Illinois do a google search business expense write off child support....I think you will be shocked!


Expenditures for repayment of debts that represent reasonable and necessary expenses for the production of income... The court shall reduce net income in determining the minimum amount of support to be ordered only for the period that such payments are due and shall enter an order containing provisions for its self-executing modification upon termination of such payment period. The reasonable and necessary is where business owners and the court differ...REPAYMENT of a debt is the biggest sticking point and the courts indicate loans for a business NOT everyday expenses...I have been here and done that...Check here for Illinois http://www.gitlinlawfirm.com/writings/support2.htm#TOC1_4 just copy and paste...
 
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haiku

Senior Member
critterperson said:
I think you may have misunderstood my post...I was saying that child support is based on Income less applicable taxes, (if you have a lot of write offs you might not have to pay any tax) and some business expenses are not allowed to reduce net for child support in Illinois... Illinois bases child support on Gross less applicable taxes (only taxes you actually pay) This is a direct Quote from case law in Illinois do a google search business expense write off child support....I think you will be shocked!


Expenditures for repayment of debts that represent reasonable and necessary expenses for the production of income... The court shall reduce net income in determining the minimum amount of support to be ordered only for the period that such payments are due and shall enter an order containing provisions for its self-executing modification upon termination of such payment period. The reasonable and necessary is where business owners and the court differ...REPAYMENT of a debt is the biggest sticking point and the courts indicate loans for a business NOT everyday expenses...I have been here and done that...Check here for Illinois http://www.gitlinlawfirm.com/writings/support2.htm#TOC1_4 just copy and paste...
you are misreading your link, according to the link provided in ILLinois you can deduct other business expenses besides just debt repayment if you can prove they were important to providing income to your business, just as in any other state.

if people had to pay support based entirely on thier gross income, they would not be in business long in any state.
 
haiku said:
you are misreading your link, according to the link provided in ILLinois you can deduct other business expenses besides just debt repayment if you can prove they were important to providing income to your business, just as in any other state.

if people had to pay support based entirely on thier gross income, they would not be in business long in any state.
First of all I never said you pay c/s based on Gross income....I said gross income less applicable taxes and reasonable and necessary business expense. If the child support amount is contested the court will make you prove those reasonable and necessary expenses. You can't just pick out a number... you would have to prove that you actually paid for anything you are trying to deduct from a child support obligation...If you read the Cases you will see that if you can prove it, is the point...Good luck proving that you have no income based on business expenses to a judge in the family court and tell him/her that because of your business expenses you can't pay child support...Oh...Most businesses make some sort of profit above and beyond business expense (for child support this has to be actual expense), and if you don't... you probably shouldn't be in business...How do you eat, pay your rent/mortgage, put gas in your car?...Answer, at the end of the year you are given credits like take example mileage for your car this year you can claim .45cents or .47cents per mile to drive your car for business related travel...Just an FYI you don't actually spend .45cents per mile on your gasoline...but as a taxpayer you can claim this amount as a business expense...So, you would only pay $2.79 per gallon of gas so figure you car gets 15 miles to the gallon on gas you are only actually spending about .19cents a mile for gas, but you are able to claim for tax purposes .45cents which is a difference in your actual deduction for child support of .26cents that is not a business expense that can not be deducted for child support...So lets now say that you drove 20,000miles for business on your taxes you can claim $9000.00(using .45cents) as a business deduction but when calculating a business expense to be deducted for child support you can only use what you ACTUALLY spent which would be $3800.00, and if there was any dispute is this deduction you would have to provide receipts for this to prove your actual expenditure...Am I making any sense?
 
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haiku

Senior Member
critterperson said:
First of all I never said you pay c/s based on Gross income....I said gross income less applicable taxes and reasonable and necessary business expense. If the child support amount is contested the court will make you prove those reasonable and necessary expenses. You can't just pick out a number... you would have to prove that you actually paid for anything you are trying to deduct from a child support obligation...If you read the Cases you will see that if you can prove it, is the point...Good luck proving that you have no income based on business expenses to a judge in the family court and tell him/her that because of your business expenses you can't pay child support...Oh...Most businesses make some sort of profit above and beyond business expense (for child support this has to be actual expense), and if you don't... you probably shouldn't be in business...How do you eat, pay your rent/mortgage, put gas in your car?...Answer, at the end of the year you are given credits like take example mileage for your car this year you can claim .45cents or .47cents per mile to drive your car for business related travel...Just an FYI you don't actually spend .45cents per mile on your gasoline...but as a taxpayer you can claim this amount as a business expense...So, you would only pay $2.79 per gallon of gas so figure you car gets 15 miles to the gallon on gas you are only actually spending about .19cents a mile for gas, but you are able to claim for tax purposes .45cents which is a difference in your actual deduction for child support of .26cents that is not a business expense that can not be deducted for child support...So lets now say that you drove 20,000miles for business on your taxes you can claim $9000.00(using .45cents) as a business deduction but when calculating a business expense to be deducted for child support you can only use what you ACTUALLY spent which would be $3800.00, and if there was any dispute is this deduction you would have to provide receipts for this to prove your actual expenditure...Am I making any sense?
honestly...not really...but I digress....

this is your original post QUOTE "Her post indicated "cash" under the table...If you are receiving a 1099 regardless of what your expenses are, you would still have an income reported at the end of the year (tax return)...She indicated that this person is reporting no income...There is a big difference! If you receive an income, even if every penny could be written off as a tax deduction so you owe no taxes, you still have to file a tax return at the end of the year...Also, most business expenses unless they are in repayment of a debt are not deductible for child support (at least that is how it works in Illinois)…"

you are really giving the impression in this post that virtually nothing will be deductible, that is NOT the case. And as a self employed person I am WELL aware of allowable deductions for support purposes LOL

Again you read WAY to much into the original post, the poster never said there was NO income just no ability that she knows of to garnish a check. her actual question is, "Is there a way to garnish the check of a self employed person?" Not "He says he has no income."

He has an income, and the best way to get her hands on it, is to take him to court if it is in an allowable time frame, and request any bank statements and IRS returns for the past 3 years.
 
Cash UNDER THE TABLE in my world means that he isn't claiming an income:rolleyes: Basically, there is no one under the table to see the transaction...so it didn't happen...;) If you are a business person you should know what cash under the table means...you may not do it, but please don't imply that you are not familiar with the term... you are just trying to be difficult...I'm Done:)
 
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