How do you calculate travel expenses & childsupport?

[olhobbes]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

My daughter's mother recently filed to establish child support, and I'd like to get an idea of what my monthly obligation will be. I know just about every other variable except one;

Due to my daughter's mother's move, my daughter changed schools to one 50 miles away. We currently share 50/50 custodial time, which means that I drive 200 miles a day to get my daughter to school on her weeks with me ( I work 5 minutes from house, so I drive 50 miles to drop her off, then drive to work. Then I drive 50 miles to pick her up and we drive home ).

How do I calculate the milage? Should I be tracking how much I spend on gas, or do they follow the IRS standard of .51/mile?

Thanks in advance folks, any words of advice are appreciated.

 

[Zigner]

Do you currently have an order in place?

 

[Isis1]

is your visitation court ordered?

 

[olhobbes]

Yes, court ordered. The court order specifies that my custodial time begins and ends at 5pm, Friday.

 

[mistoffolees]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

My daughter's mother recently filed to establish child support, and I'd like to get an idea of what my monthly obligation will be. I know just about every other variable except one;

Due to my daughter's mother's move, my daughter changed schools to one 50 miles away. We currently share 50/50 custodial time, which means that I drive 200 miles a day to get my daughter to school on her weeks with me ( I work 5 minutes from house, so I drive 50 miles to drop her off, then drive to work. Then I drive 50 miles to pick her up and we drive home ).

How do I calculate the milage? Should I be tracking how much I spend on gas, or do they follow the IRS standard of .51/mile?

Thanks in advance folks, any words of advice are appreciated.

When you get to court, ask the judge to order your ex to pay 100% of transportation costs since she is the one who created the distance.

If the judge grants that, you can ask for the IRS standard, but probably won't get it. A more realistic approach would be out of pocket costs - how much gasoline you use and tolls. You might be able to argue for a pro-rated amount for other out of pocket costs like tires and brakes, but don't count on it.

The judge may not grant it, though. He may say that each party should be responsible for their own transportation costs.

However, the distance you are traveling might not be all that practical after a while. You're talking about 20,000 miles a year - just for visitation. At some point, you might have to consider changing the visitation schedule to one that's more suitable for the distance.

 

[olhobbes]

It's not practical, but it is necessary. For a wide variety of reasons. The short of it is that my daughter needs me and our time together during the week, I fear for her academic and personal life if she were left to her mother a majority of the time.

Which is not something I will say in the court room, obviously. I will simply point out that I am traveling 1000 miles every other week pursuant to the court ordered custody agreement.

Thanks for the info, once again, mistoffolees.

 

[Isis1]

It's not practical, but it is necessary. For a wide variety of reasons. The short of it is that my daughter needs me and our time together during the week, I fear for her academic and personal life if she were left to her mother a majority of the time.

Which is not something I will say in the court room, obviously. I will simply point out that I am traveling 1000 miles every other week pursuant to the court ordered custody agreement.

Thanks for the info, once again, mistoffolees.

you know....i'm a tad worried only because i was in a similar situation. when the dad had custody, it was ordered that i get the kids every day after school until 9pm. then every other weekend. i drove 20 miles to pick up one child, drove 30 miles to pick up another, then drove home another 45 miles. and repeated every evening to take them back. judge's orders.

then, they did that trick where they move judges around the courtrooms, and the next hearing, (after custody was reverted to me) the new judge denied dad the same schedule that was granted to me.

so, what worried me, is if you make it a point to try to bill mom for the transportation costs AFTER the child support order is issued, the judge mght change the schedule. so you'll be traveling less. and seeing your child less.

go here....Calculate Child Support and plug in the numbers.

you were fine with the cost until child support became an issue. so it's a rough decision.

 

[olhobbes]

I live in constant fear of the custody order being modified as you say, Isis1. The courts don't seem to care about the welfare of the child, nor do they give any respect to fathers.

That said, it's my understanding that a judge wouldn't act in such a unilateral fashion, and that even if one did I could file an emergency order keeping custody as it is pending a full custody evaluation.

Regardless, I may pursue fuel cost help if nothing else. While I didn't file the initial child support motion, I can't help but think about the logistics of what I'm facing. Best case scenario, I'm calculating my costs to be around 300 bucks a month extra in gas.

 

[mistoffolees]

I live in constant fear of the custody order being modified as you say, Isis1. The courts don't seem to care about the welfare of the child, nor do they give any respect to fathers.

That said, it's my understanding that a judge wouldn't act in such a unilateral fashion, and that even if one did I could file an emergency order keeping custody as it is pending a full custody evaluation.

Regardless, I may pursue fuel cost help if nothing else. While I didn't file the initial child support motion, I can't help but think about the logistics of what I'm facing. Best case scenario, I'm calculating my costs to be around 300 bucks a month extra in gas.

The court is not going to change custody unless there's a petition from one of the parties to do so. Judges rarely will simply take it upon themselves to change custody - and if they do, you could object and appeal. As long as you (the partner traveling the distance) are willing to continue doing so, the court isn't going to change it. {Conceivably, if the child was spending 5 hours a day in the car, the judge might take it upon himself, but even that isn't likely}

Make sure when you ask for the costs to be reimbursed that you do not simply talk about fairness or your need to be reimbursed. The LEGAL argument is that Mom created the distance when she moved and should therefore bear the cost.

How recently did Mom move? If it was recent, you could possibly even ask for a change of custody on that basis.

As for the cost, there are differing opinions. Some people believe in 'ask for everything under the sun to increase your chances of getting what you want'. If you buy that, ask for the IRS rate. Others believe in asking for only what you think you can get - which would be simply gas money. If it were me, I'd be in between - I'd ask for the most that I could make a reasonable case for, but not anything unreasonable. To me, a reasonable case could be made for every INCREMENTAL cost that you face:

Gas
Tolls
Tires (estimate the life of a set of tires on your car and divide that into the cost of a set of tires including installation to get a cost per mile)
Brakes (same calculation as tires)
Oil changes (same calculation)
INCREASE in insurance (many companies charge a higher rate if you're over 15 K miles per year and the only reason you're going over that level is the extra travel
Lease mileage charges if you go over the lease contract terms

In my view, it would not be reasonable to ask for your basic insurance or depreciation on the car (in theory, asking for some depreciation would be reasonable, but it would be so hard to figure out a fair amount that it's probably not worth doing).

 

[Isis1]

I live in constant fear of the custody order being modified as you say, Isis1. The courts don't seem to care about the welfare of the child, nor do they give any respect to fathers.
That said, it's my understanding that a judge wouldn't act in such a unilateral fashion, and that even if one did I could file an emergency order keeping custody as it is pending a full custody evaluation.

Regardless, I may pursue fuel cost help if nothing else. While I didn't file the initial child support motion, I can't help but think about the logistics of what I'm facing. Best case scenario, I'm calculating my costs to be around 300 bucks a month extra in gas.

and that's where i don't agree with you. the courts do not make rulings against a father just because he has testicles. you are using the sex card like some people use race cards. stop that.

my point was, if you do complain, how you bring up the costs may cause the judge to rethink the schedule. you didn't file for a custody change when mom moved. therefore stating the move was okay. you even kept the visitation schedule. so there was no complaint. until mom filed for support. you need to watch your words.

 

[olhobbes]

Once again, I am in your debt mistoffolees.

She moved last year, and kept our daughter at her old school last year. Then she decided she wanted to change schools, so I filed a custody motion preventing that...but as it turns out out of wedlock fathers are scum that shouldn't waste the court's time.

Needless to say I got a lesson in our legal system, and am very much disgusted by what I learned. Regardless, paternity was established and a custody order was set, and I have gone out of my way to make it work for my daughter.

If I'm projecting ~300 a month in additional fuel costs, I may look to ~400 to offset the other maint costs and account for the fluctuation in prices.

Anyway. Thanks again mistoffolees.

 

[olhobbes]

and that's where i don't agree with you. the courts do not make rulings against a father just because he has testicles. you are using the sex card like some people use race cards. stop that.

It's hard when your mediator tells you that the mother holds all the cards, and that as an unwed father, I have no rights to my child ( yes, this was actually said to me ).

Regardless, I don't let my opinion influence my legal actions, nor do I allow them out in court. My opinions, as I have learned painfully, are meaningless.

 

[Isis1]

It's hard when your mediator tells you that the mother holds all the cards, and that as an unwed father, I have no rights to my child ( yes, this was actually said to me ).

Regardless, I don't let my opinion influence my legal actions, nor do I allow them out in court. My opinions, as I have learned painfully, are meaningless.

if paternity is established, then yes you did have rights. what you may not have been able to do is change the living circumstance if there was no change of circumstance for the child.

a mediator is not a lawyer.

i'm not saying this to pick on you, just pointing out what i really wish you would have known....when mom moved, THAT was when you should have filed for transportational reimbursement OR a change in custody since mom is creating a distance. not AFTER mom changed schools. maybe it wasn't on purpose, but mom set you up legally. you have got to start acting, not reacting to mom.

 

[mistoffolees]

if paternity is established, then yes you did have rights. what you may not have been able to do is change the living circumstance if there was no change of circumstance for the child.

a mediator is not a lawyer.

i'm not saying this to pick on you, just pointing out what i really wish you would have known....when mom moved, THAT was when you should have filed for transportational reimbursement OR a change in custody since mom is creating a distance. not AFTER mom changed schools. maybe it wasn't on purpose, but mom set you up legally. you have got to start acting, not reacting to mom.

More importantly, OP should have filed to establish paternity right from the start rather than waiting for Mom to move. At that point, it's pretty much too late. If paternity and custody have not been legally established, Mom can legally move. If Dad immediately files for custody or an order for the child to be returned, it's going to be months before it gets in front of a judge - and by then, a status quo has been established.

Fathers really need to establish custody and paternity right from the start.

 

[olhobbes]

if paternity is established, then yes you did have rights. what you may not have been able to do is change the living circumstance if there was no change of circumstance for the child.

a mediator is not a lawyer.

i'm not saying this to pick on you, just pointing out what i really wish you would have known....when mom moved, THAT was when you should have filed for transportational reimbursement OR a change in custody since mom is creating a distance. not AFTER mom changed schools. maybe it wasn't on purpose, but mom set you up legally. you have got to start acting, not reacting to mom.

You are right, I know it. I take no offense. And I absolutely believe it was her mother's intent to set this up as she did.

More importantly, OP should have filed to establish paternity right from the start rather than waiting for Mom to move. At that point, it's pretty much too late. If paternity and custody have not been legally established, Mom can legally move. If Dad immediately files for custody or an order for the child to be returned, it's going to be months before it gets in front of a judge - and by then, a status quo has been established.

Fathers really need to establish custody and paternity right from the start.

Again, right.

I learned quite a bit of this process the hard way. The sad thing is it's hard to find this information out there, I looked. My scum of a lawyer didn't even tell me what I needed to know. It wasn't until I knew the phrases and terms that I was able to start finding the material I needed, and by that point I ( or more accurately, my daughter ) was already screwed.

My main problem is that I trusted her mother. She told me she wasn't going to move, and I trusted her. Then she got married and moved, and promised she wasn't going to force a school change. Again, despite my better judgement, I trusted her. Then the school change, which it's my belief she had been planning from the start.

Regardless. I have (finally) learned my lesson, but it took going through the process to really get it.