Indiana Emancipation Automatic At 21?

[kidro2]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana

Greetings,

My son is a full time college student and just turned 21. I asked an attorney friend if there was anything that I needed to do once my son turned 21 in regards to child support and he said no, that emancipation is automatic once the child turns 21.

The court signed agreement that the mother and I filed ourselves states nothing but this:

1. Blah blah blah support will be increased to x amount.

2. The $x.xx per week payment by Respondent/Father shall be paid to the Petitioner/Mother every two weeks at the Petitioner's home address.

3. That the Respondent/Father is responsible for all reasonable future medical, dental and optical expenses.

Then the signatures at the bottom. This order was filed by us to take support out of the courts because Porter County was a nightmare for 10+ years. The mother actually did the leg work to get the paper drawn up and filed. Bottom line, the courts are no longer involved.

My question is this. The mother is now saying that I have to file for emancipation even if he is 21, and in fact that her lawyer told her I was supposed to have filed that weeks before his 21st birthday. He told her that otherwise I should pay support until he is 24 or after his 4th year at school (can't remember which.) This came as news to me based on the bazillion things I read online and heard from others.

To confuse matters, I did come across a couple posts somewhere (out of the bazillion) that said the non-custodial parent in some counties of Indiana has to hire an attorney to get support stopped at 21, but those cases were handled through the court and the clerk's office.

She also said that because there was no "end date" specified on the support agreement, that is why I needed to file for emancipation. I assumed that anything that WASN'T in the court order was assumed under Indiana Support Guidelines.

Does anyone know for certain if I in fact have to hire an attorney to get this done? As I said, I pay directly to her, no courts, no clerk.

Thanks in advance for any advice. My lawyer's office is closed right now and I am stressing.

 

[justalayman]

you shouldn't have to file for emancipation but it would be wise to file for a termination of the support order.

Your agreement says nothing about when the order would terminate, including upon emancipation. As such and considering many courts seem to extend child support to include some college years, the safest action would be to file for termination.

If you don't, the other party may convince a judge that the intentions were for you to pay throughout the child's college years as well.

 

[kidro2]

Thanks for the quick response...

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks for the quick response...

I actually disagree with the other poster, and agree with the attorney that you spoke to. I am in Indiana and very familiar with the child support laws and guidelines, and since the state is not involved in the collection of your child support, you are free to simply stop paying when the child turns 21.

It would actually be up to mom to file to get it extended to age 24. That CAN happen, but its very rare.

 

[justalayman]

I actually disagree with the other poster, and agree with the attorney that you spoke to. I am in Indiana and very familiar with the child support laws and guidelines, and since the state is not involved in the collection of your child support, you are free to simply stop paying when the child turns 21.

It would actually be up to mom to file to get it extended to age 24. That CAN happen, but its very rare.

but are you willing to say, with absolute certainty that mom would not make that argument some time in the future and she has no possibility of winning?

In my case, the worst that happens is they spend a little time and a couple bucks to make certain. In yours, the worst case scenario, the guy ends up paying CS until they get to court or until the kid dies.

As you yourself stated, this is outside the courts control of child support. As such, it has become a contractual relationship. The contract they agreed to does not have a terminus.

As such, the contractual relationship has nothing to do with emancipation. It has to do with whatever the parties agreed to. I can see where a parent would ask for, or in contrast, to offer, to assist in the childs expenses until they have graduated from school. If this was the mothers belief, she has an arguable position.

and especially since this is moms argument:

The mother is now saying that I have to file for emancipation even if he is 21, and in fact that her lawyer told her I was supposed to have filed that weeks before his 21st birthday. He told her that otherwise I should pay support until he is 24 or after his 4th year at school (can't remember which.)

apparently mom believed the contract continued on through school.

 

[cbg]

Please note that my state is NOT Indiana.

In my state, the age of emancipation is 18. However, despite that, my husband was required to continue paying child support until his son was 22, since the court order expressly said, until he was finished college. Because of the relationship on the calendar between his son's birthday and the end of the school year, it was 5 months past his son's 22nd birthday before we were freed from making payments. This despite a law that says "most" child support ends at 18 - because of the exact wording of the court order, we were among those who made it "most" and not "all".

So before taking anything for granted, I would recommend looking at the exact wording of the order - the last thing you want is to find yourself in violation because of an assumption.

 

[justalayman]

cbg; there was apparently no "order". OP presented the "agreement" that the courts signed off.

The court signed agreement that the mother and I filed ourselves states nothing but this:

1. Blah blah blah support will be increased to x amount.

2. The $x.xx per week payment by Respondent/Father shall be paid to the Petitioner/Mother every two weeks at the Petitioner's home address.

3. That the Respondent/Father is responsible for all reasonable future medical, dental and optical expenses.

Then the signatures at the bottom. This order was filed by us to take support out of the courts because Porter County was a nightmare for 10+ years. The mother actually did the leg work to get the paper drawn up and filed. Bottom line, the courts are no longer involved.

since it is a private agreement that the court, by signing, simply acknowledged as acceptable, the OP is now bound by that separate, independent, non-court ordered agreement. Since there is no terminus to the agreement, either party can claim their position simply because that is what each of them understands the agreement to mean.

I do not believe either party had contemplated this situation when making this agreement and as such, ended up with a very poorly written agreement.



As such, it would behoove the OP to file for emancipation of the child as, if for nothing else, an action to prevent further obligations. If it is not needed, then so what? Better safe than sorry.

as to support mom is claiming for the interim time? Pay it and be done with it. Unless it is some outrageous amount, you will spend more money in attorneys fees and time lost than simply paying it.

 

[kidro2]

Thanks to all of you that have responded so far.

CBG, the exact wording of the order is in my original post. It literally is that short...3 stipulations. This is why I am assuming that if it is not in writing, it falls under the standard Indiana Support Guidelines. Does anyone disagree with that?

Regardless, I do have a call in to my attorney, but I am just trying to get some info since I won't hear back from him until Monday at the earliest. I have been very careful when talking to people about this not to leave anything out in hopes of finding an accurate answer based on Indiana law. I think the biggest question mark comes up when people mention that some COUNTIES may have slightly different guidelines than the state (which confuses the hell out of me.)

justalayman - question. From what I am reading in your last reply, are you saying that if it was not in the written and signed agreement that the mother has an argument? I'm only asking because I don't know, but using that logic, I would have the same rights to any arguments, true?

I may be naive here, but wouldn't a signed support agreement inherit any stipulations from the Indiana guidelines if they are not written into the signed agreement?

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks to all of you that have responded so far.

CBG, the exact wording of the order is in my original post. It literally is that short...3 stipulations. This is why I am assuming that if it is not in writing, it falls under the standard Indiana Support Guidelines. Does anyone disagree with that?

I do not...Indiana is a state where guidelines are incredibly specific and the courts follow them to a "t".

Regardless, I do have a call in to my attorney, but I am just trying to get some info since I won't hear back from him until Monday at the earliest. I have been very careful when talking to people about this not to leave anything out in hopes of finding an accurate answer based on Indiana law. I think the biggest question mark comes up when people mention that some COUNTIES may have slightly different guidelines than the state (which confuses the hell out of me.)

No, counties in Indiana do not have slightly different guidelines anymore. They used to, on many different family law issues, but that is no longer true.

justalayman - question. From what I am reading in your last reply, are you saying that if it was not in the written and signed agreement that the mother has an argument? I'm only asking because I don't know, but using that logic, I would have the same rights to any arguments, true?

I may be naive here, but wouldn't a signed support agreement inherit any stipulations from the Indiana guidelines if they are not written into the signed agreement?

Yes, you are absolutely correct that if an order doesn't address issues that are addresse by the Indiana Guidelines that the guidelines would rule.

Again, I will repeat...under Indiana law your child support ends at age 21, and if the state isn't collecting your support you are NOT required to file for termination/empancipation. If mom wants child support to continue beyond age 21 it would be her responsibility to file for that, and it would be very rare for an IN judge to order that.

 

[justalayman]

justalayman - question. From what I am reading in your last reply, are you saying that if it was not in the written and signed agreement that the mother has an argument? I'm only asking because I don't know, but using that logic, I would have the same rights to any arguments, true?

yes, that is exactly what I said:

either party can claim their position simply because that is what each of them understands the agreement to mean.

I may be naive here, but wouldn't a signed support agreement inherit any stipulations from the Indiana guidelines if they are not written into the signed agreement?

I do not believe they would. This is not a court ordered situation and as such, you can enter into any agreement you wanted to. Apparently mom believes the agreement extends beyond the age of 21. You apparently don't. The guidelines are a minimum. You can agree to more than what is required.

You can enter into a contract to pay mom 1 million dollars a month. Now, is that within the Indiana guidelines? Not unless you are Bill Gates. Is it enforceable? MAYBE. I do not care what the Indiana guidelines state. If you enter into an agreement, that agreement may be enforceable regardless of it not within the guidelines. Guidelines are guidlines, not limitations if you choose to go beyond the guidelines. It gets in to contracts and beyond child support.

As such, I am saying the simplest way to take care of this is to file for emancipation and very likely just paying the amount owed between that time and the time the child turned 21.

Can you argue this in court and win? Maybe. Can you argue this is court and lose? I believe so. So, how much is it going to cost you to argue this in court compared to paying the amount I spoke of.

So, you can file the emancipation paperwork and consider paying the money or you can pay your lawyer, maybe moms lawyer, spend time arguing this in court and in front of a judge and end up maybe not owing the money for the time post 21 until emancipation.

Your checkbook. Your choice.

 

[kidro2]

I can say one thing for certain when this all ends for me. I will never want to be a lawyer. While I appreciate all of the replies, I cannot agree with some of them when it pertains to the law.

"Guidelines are guidlines, not limitations." This pretty much sums it up for me. Probably not in the way that was intended, but this quote pretty much confirms what I have been saying this whole time. If it's not in a written agreement that is BASED ON THE GUIDELINES then it is assumed under those guidelines.

If I am not correct in my assumptions, then we are all in a lot of trouble. I mean, seriously. If is not written into the agreement that I should receive oral sex when I pick the child up for visitation, should I argue this point? Of course this is a ridiculous example, but you get what I am saying.

 

[LdiJ]

I can say one thing for certain when this all ends for me. I will never want to be a lawyer. While I appreciate all of the replies, I cannot agree with some of them when it pertains to the law.

"Guidelines are guidlines, not limitations." This pretty much sums it up for me. Probably not in the way that was intended, but this quote pretty much confirms what I have been saying this whole time. If it's not in a written agreement that is BASED ON THE GUIDELEINES then it is assumed under those guideleines.

If I am not correct in my assumptions, then we are all in a lot of trouble. I mean, serioulsly. If is not written into the agreement that I should receive oral sex whem I pick the child up for visitation, should I argue this point? Of course this is a ridiculous example, but you get what I am saying.

Kidro...I am honestly certain of what I am saying. You are not required to file to terminate the child support. You can just stop paying.

 

[justalayman]

Kidro...I am honestly certain of what I am saying. You are not required to file to terminate the child support. You can just stop paying.

as it stands, the OP is faced with an ex and her attorney that are opposed to your position. Until such time you are willing to pay for the problems that your position may cause, I would strongly suggest taking action to be sure there are no claims available from this point forward.


In other words; quit arguing with me just because you want to be correct over me and consider what will happen if you are wrong. It costs the OP money. HIS money. If I am wrong, the OP loses very little because of the actions I suggested. If I am right, OP possibly saves a lot of money (I have no idea what the CS amounts to and what he is paying in attorney fees).

With your advice, if you are right, OP saves whatever it would cost to file for the order of emancipation and the CS to date, if he pays it without argument. If you are wrong, it costs him the continued CS until he actually gets into court with the current situation plus the current CS plus his attorney's fees.

My advice is intended to limit his losses regardless who is correct. Your way is still going to cost him the attorney's fees to argue this in court.


Think of my advice as insurance. We all buy insurance with the thought we will not need it but boy, when we do, it sure is nice that we bought it.

kidro, if you get a chance. come on back when this is settled and let us know. It would not bother me to admit I was wrong, if I am. It really makes no diff to me. I am simply suggesting the actions I am to minimize your outlay of money. I am interested in hearing the final disposition though.

Sometimes we pay a dollar today to save 5 tomorrow regardless of who is actually correct.

 

[LdiJ]

I am not posting to argue with you.

OP already consulted an attorney himself who told him exactly the same thing that I am telling him.

The ex, who perhaps consulted an attorney or who perhaps is talking out of her backside stated something different.

By all means he should feel free to consult another Indiana attorney...or even three or four if he likes. I am confident of the answer that he will get from all of them...but I strongly encourage him to do so.

 

[CJane]

I think the confusion is that some posters are looking at this as a contractual agreement between Mom and Dad and attempting to apply contract law to it. HOWEVER, regardless if this is a stipulated agreement, it's STILL a court order - and it must follow the statutory guidelines for a support order in order to be valid.

If the statutory guidelines state that child support ends at 21, then they end at 21. It really is that simple... because the courts ARE 'involved' even though they're no longer collecting/administrating the CS.