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KY child support/custody questions

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cstenson2003

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? KY & OH

My husband has a 9 year old daughter with a woman who has 4 other kids (not my husbands). She is unemployed and lives on the SSDI from her 14 year old (for ADHD, of all things) as well as child support for all of them - rent is paid by the state, as is food, utilities, etc. She is bringing in, after rent/utility money/food money and cash, about twice what we are bringing in together - and she doesn't lift a finger for it. She willingly volunteered all this info to my husband a couple weeks ago. My husband pays his portion of the child support religiously, has never been late (not so much as a dime) and often is ahead by a few weeks. We recently got notice that she thinks she's not getting enough money from my husband and wants more so a review has been ordered. For informational purposes, we are a mixed family with no common children. I have 2 from a previous marriage (they live with us) and he has 1 from this situation. We live in OH and she lives in KY, the child support order is in KY.

While I know no one can tell me what will happen with any certainty, we are looking for advice from someone with experience in these matters in KY &/or OH. The questions I have are:

1. What (besides income) is considered when modifying these orders? For instance, my husband is diabetic (was diagnosed AFTER the initial child support order) and we spend at least $200/mo after insurance on medications and doctors. We are also living paycheck to paycheck right now, (we literally often only have $50-60/week for groceries and gas) and are currently going through a mortgage modification because of job loss. He works 40 hours a week, I have 2 jobs (about 24 hrs/wk) and I'm in school full time (half way done) for a bachelors in nursing. As it is, we are in the red every month and can prove it - we have been working with a credit counseling agency on our budget and to save our home. We are able to produce our budget worksheets in court next week (the child support modification hearing is on 9/8/10). If his child support increases significantly we WILL lose our home. It is certain. I have used KY's child support calculation forms and it looks like my husband's obligation will quadruple. Yes, 400%. This leads me to my next question.

2. Is there a limit to how much child support can increase at any one time? Will they actually raise his weekly obligation by 400%? I used the calculation forms available on KY's CSE website and that was the number I came up with. I did it twice to be sure. Is there anything we can do to prevent this as this will, without a doubt, create a serious hardship for us? Don't get me wrong - he has an obligation to his daughter and will meet it willingly, but at when this becomes an issue that will cause us to lose our home it is too much. Part of the reason his child support will quadruple (according to the forms) is because last time it was calculated he was making $4/hr less than he is now and she was on full welfare so all of his child support went to the state to reimburse them for her welfare usage.

3. He carries (and always has) medical, dental and vision insurance for his child. Will they factor his cost into what he pays? In other words, will they deduct the child's portion of the premium amounts from his payments to child support?

4. This is a child that resulted from a one-night stand (before 'we' got serious), all 5 of her kids have different fathers. They were never married, etc. There is NO court ordered custody involved. From what I can tell, in KY, they each have equal rights to the child since there is no custody agreement, court ordered or otherwise. We live in OH, she lives in KY. She has had many civil/criminal/domestic court & legal issues, even nearly losing her kids earlier this year after an issue involving a boyfriend, a gun and her kid showing up in school with a black & blue face - of which we learned well after the fact. She is a piss-poor mother who clearly only keeps having kids because she can live for free and bring in a ton of money in child support & welfare payments. We try to spend as much time as possible with his daughter, but it becomes difficult because the mom will up and move with no notice (she's on home #4 already this year) and we then have to spend months tracking her down to spend time. We, on the other hand, own our home, we both have jobs, no criminal or other court related issues, my kids have excellent attendance and grades in school, we are active in our community and we have moved only 1 time in the past 9 years - to buy a house. If we decide to pursue custody, do we file in OH or KY? Also, if we file for custody, due to there being no custody order at this time, do we have to prove her unfit or is it basically just establishing custody now?

We would love to have his daughter move in with us. We want to give her a good, stable home. It really hurts when she is here and we have to take her home. She doesn't even want to go home, but my husband doesn't want to get into any kind of trouble for not taking her home. We just don't know what to do, and now the mom is trying to slam us with the money issue.

I know this is a lot and I hope I put it in the right place, but we are desperate for help/advice. We would really love to hear from someone who has experience with KY child support and custody matters.

Thanks in advance!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 


Antigone*

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? KY & OH

My husband has a 9 year old daughter with a woman who has 4 other kids (not my husbands). She is unemployed and lives on the SSDI from her 14 year old (for ADHD, of all things) as well as child support for all of them - rent is paid by the state, as is food, utilities, etc. She is bringing in, after rent/utility money/food money and cash, about twice what we are bringing in together - and she doesn't lift a finger for it. She willingly volunteered all this info to my husband a couple weeks ago. My husband pays his portion of the child support religiously, has never been late (not so much as a dime) and often is ahead by a few weeks. We recently got notice that she thinks she's not getting enough money from my husband and wants more so a review has been ordered. For informational purposes, we are a mixed family with no common children. I have 2 from a previous marriage (they live with us) and he has 1 from this situation. We live in OH and she lives in KY, the child support order is in KY.

While I know no one can tell me what will happen with any certainty, we are looking for advice from someone with experience in these matters in KY &/or OH. The questions I have are:

1. What (besides income) is considered when modifying these orders? For instance, my husband is diabetic (was diagnosed AFTER the initial child support order) and we spend at least $200/mo after insurance on medications and doctors. We are also living paycheck to paycheck right now, (we literally often only have $50-60/week for groceries and gas) and are currently going through a mortgage modification because of job loss. He works 40 hours a week, I have 2 jobs (about 24 hrs/wk) and I'm in school full time (half way done) for a bachelors in nursing. As it is, we are in the red every month and can prove it - we have been working with a credit counseling agency on our budget and to save our home. We are able to produce our budget worksheets in court next week (the child support modification hearing is on 9/8/10). If his child support increases significantly we WILL lose our home. It is certain. I have used KY's child support calculation forms and it looks like my husband's obligation will quadruple. Yes, 400%. This leads me to my next question.

2. Is there a limit to how much child support can increase at any one time? Will they actually raise his weekly obligation by 400%? I used the calculation forms available on KY's CSE website and that was the number I came up with. I did it twice to be sure. Is there anything we can do to prevent this as this will, without a doubt, create a serious hardship for us? Don't get me wrong - he has an obligation to his daughter and will meet it willingly, but at when this becomes an issue that will cause us to lose our home it is too much. Part of the reason his child support will quadruple (according to the forms) is because last time it was calculated he was making $4/hr less than he is now and she was on full welfare so all of his child support went to the state to reimburse them for her welfare usage.

3. He carries (and always has) medical, dental and vision insurance for his child. Will they factor his cost into what he pays? In other words, will they deduct the child's portion of the premium amounts from his payments to child support?

4. This is a child that resulted from a one-night stand (before 'we' got serious), all 5 of her kids have different fathers. They were never married, etc. There is NO court ordered custody involved. From what I can tell, in KY, they each have equal rights to the child since there is no custody agreement, court ordered or otherwise. We live in OH, she lives in KY. She has had many civil/criminal/domestic court & legal issues, even nearly losing her kids earlier this year after an issue involving a boyfriend, a gun and her kid showing up in school with a black & blue face - of which we learned well after the fact. She is a piss-poor mother who clearly only keeps having kids because she can live for free and bring in a ton of money in child support & welfare payments. We try to spend as much time as possible with his daughter, but it becomes difficult because the mom will up and move with no notice (she's on home #4 already this year) and we then have to spend months tracking her down to spend time. We, on the other hand, own our home, we both have jobs, no criminal or other court related issues, my kids have excellent attendance and grades in school, we are active in our community and we have moved only 1 time in the past 9 years - to buy a house. If we decide to pursue custody, do we file in OH or KY? Also, if we file for custody, due to there being no custody order at this time, do we have to prove her unfit or is it basically just establishing custody now?

We would love to have his daughter move in with us. We want to give her a good, stable home. It really hurts when she is here and we have to take her home. She doesn't even want to go home, but my husband doesn't want to get into any kind of trouble for not taking her home. We just don't know what to do, and now the mom is trying to slam us with the money issue.

I know this is a lot and I hope I put it in the right place, but we are desperate for help/advice. We would really love to hear from someone who has experience with KY child support and custody matters.

Thanks in advance!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
I guess the fact that your husband chose this woman for the mother of his childen doesn't say much for his taste in women:rolleyes:

She is entitled to bring her case up for review and if the mediator/judge sees fit to increase her support then daddy is just going to have to fork over more money for her to sit around on her lazy behind and do nothing.:rolleyes:

I am telling you this ~ in this manner ~ because you came here with an agenda. You came here to put down another woman and put yourself on a pedestal. Well it did not work. You made yourself look like a vindictive step.

Now if your husband is not man enough to ask for more visitation then that is how dad wants it. Visitation and support have nothing to do with each other.

My advice to you is to let dad handle this as he should.
 

cstenson2003

Junior Member
Ok, not sure how I offended you, but obviously I did.

1. He made a mistake, a one-night stand that resulted in a child whom we both adore and he has an obligation to - an obligation that he more than meets.

2. No one said she is not entitled to ask for a review. I am only asking if CSE will actually raise his support 400% at one time, which will result in our family losing our home. That just seems wrong to me somehow, since she is living for free. And before you tell me to get another job - I work 2 now as it is. We live in an area that has a 14% unemployment rate, jobs are a little hard to come by. Even McDonald's isn't hiring here right now - if they were, I would. I am not too proud to work at McDonald's.

3. I did come here with an agenda - to get answers to my questions. Period. I am in no way seeking a pedestal for myself. I am not trying to insult her or make her look bad, she does that well enough without my help. Everything in my post was fact, plain and simple. She DOES receive massive amounts of support from the state, child support and SSDI; she does NOT have a job; she DOES have 5 kids by 5 different men ranging in age from 14 years old to 1 year old; she DOES have a criminal record as well as child-endangerment charges still pending; her boyfriend DID put fist-to-face with her 14 year old son, he DID pull a gun on him. SHE told us about it. WE do not have criminal records, we DO work for our income, we DO have a stable home, we DO meet the financial obligations to this child. We LOVE this child and want the world for her, but there comes a point at which the custodial parent is asking too much. There is a difference between need and greed. We want to give his daughter these things ourselves. In our home.

4. As for asking for more visitation - that is not the issue. We have her here with us as often as possible, love spending time with her, but it becomes difficult when the mom just moves - without telling my husband - and we then have to track her down through friends/family to find her to spend time with his daughter. Currently there is NO custody order. I am aware that child support and custody are 2 different things.

5. As for letting dad handle this on his own "as he should" - we are a married couple, we do everything as a couple - we make financial decisions together, we spend time with his daughter and mine together, this child support modification will effect me as well. Yes, he should not have created a child outside of marriage; yes, he made a mistake but he is being responsible by financially supporting her AND being involved.

6. The desire for custody is NOT simply because of the child support issue. We have always wanted custody of his daughter. Since the day she was born. We simply cannot afford to pay an attorney for that. We are not rich. We are not made of money. We do not have untapped resources. All of our money goes to the support of our children - his child and my children. We do not want them to do without the things they need. We are a modest income family who grosses less than $40,000/yr. We would rather spend that on a home and our children. NOT on lawyers and court costs. We are now trying to seek custody due to the dangerous situation she is living in and need to do this on a level we can afford. Paying an attorney is simply not possible. Never has been. Hence the reason for seeking legal advice to law questions on a law forum.

Again, I'm not sure how I offended you. I was most certainly not trying to insult the child's mother - or you. I know what it's like to be owed child support and not get it - my ex husband is NOT involved, nor does he pay the court ordered child support he owes me - over $20,000 at this point. I know what it's like being on the other end of this. However, my husband is NOT behind - is often AHEAD & IS involved. We know, too well, what it is like to go without. We sacrifice, we struggle. But does this child support obligation have to come at the cost of our home?

I was simply looking for advice on the questions I asked. Clearly you are not interested in helping us. Sorry to have bothered you.
 
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kaktuss kate

Junior Member
Not to worry

Fight for custody. If the child is old enough they will ask her where she wants to live. Your husband can get free legal council if he is interested in obtaining custody. The court will ask for a financial statement with all your income and expenses and you can claim hardship if you have to. Your husband has always paid child support and has not engaged in blameworthy conduct. However, let it be known that he is to raise the support payments along with his income. She may or may not get an increase. Especially when you say that she makes more than the two of you together. Support is the right of the child but in this case the child isnt being deprived of anything because your husband hasnt increased his support. How much child support does he pay per month?

kate
 
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cstenson2003

Junior Member
Fight for custody. If the child is old enough they will ask her where she wants to live. Your husband can get free legal council if he is interested in obtaining custody. The court will ask for a financial statement with all your income and expenses and you can claim hardship if you have to. Your husband has always paid child support and has not engaged in blameworthy conduct. However, let it be known that he is to raise the support payments along with his income. She may or may not get an increase. Especially when you say that she makes more than the two of you together. Support is the right of the child but in this case the child isnt being deprived of anything because your husband hasnt increased his support. How much child support does he pay per month?

kate
Thank you for your advice.

However, it does raise another question. Her 'income' is more than ours - by a long shot. But, since the SSDI is her son's income, and her other cash income is child support, does that count as 'income' for these purposes? The way I understand it, it does not. She is unemployed and all of the money coming into her household is designated for the various children and not earned by her, therefore she has 'zero' income. She is currently receiving $880/mo SSDI, 300/mo child support EACH for 2 of her kids, 400/mo EACH for the other 2 and 100/mo for my husband's daughter; a total of $2300/mo cash, untaxed of course. She wants to, and it looks like (according to the state calculation forms is possible) raise my husband's support to $400/mo. PLUS, her rent is 100% subsidized through HUD, and she gets a check every month to cover her utilities and $700/mo in food stamps. That is roughly $4500/mo in benefits and child support, all tax free and unearned. My husband grosses $2697/mo and I gross roughly $800/mo depending on how many hours I can get at work. I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly. I hope you can get what I'm trying to say from what I have here.

As I said in an earlier post, we fully agree that my husband has an obligation to his child. We understand that increases in child support become necessary, however, do you see where we are feeling a little screwed-over here? She is bringing in a lot of money to her household, but it looks like she is bringing in none, because all of the money coming in is designated for the support of her kids. SSDI, child support, welfare support - those are her sources of income, so it isn't really 'income', even though it amounts to nearly twice what my husband and I gross in wages.

In KY, can a seek work order be issued to the custodial parent? She refuses to get a job, so he is held 100% financially responsible. If he were not working and not paying support they would order him to get a job. Can they do the same on her side? And, quite frankly, if one can squeeze out 5 kids, one is healthy enough to work the counter at McDonald's. Sorry to sound crude, but I'm sure you get my point.

We are terrified about what is going to happen in court next week. This literally could totally change our way of life if there is a significant increase. We don't know what to do. When he calls the child support agency they are rude and will not answer questions. I don't get it. He has been nothing but cooperative and is not behind in payments.

When we file for custody, do we do it in Ohio - where we live, or KY - where she lives and where the child support order is? I was told by MY child support case worker in OH that if there is not a custody order he is not even obligated to take her home from his weekends with her. But, again - she is an OH worker and unfamiliar with KY laws and we don't know what state would have jurisdiction in this situation. I know these are really specific questions and we should get a lawyer, but we cannot afford it. Not sure that a lawyer would answer these questions in a free-consultation situation, but I do appreciate your effort to advise us.
 
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Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Fight for custody. If the child is old enough they will ask her where she wants to live. Your husband can get free legal council if he is interested in obtaining custody. The court will ask for a financial statement with all your income and expenses and you can claim hardship if you have to. Your husband has always paid child support and has not engaged in blameworthy conduct. However, let it be known that he is to raise the support payments along with his income. She may or may not get an increase. Especially when you say that she makes more than the two of you together. Support is the right of the child but in this case the child isnt being deprived of anything because your husband hasnt increased his support. How much child support does he pay per month?

kate
WRONG. Wrong. Wrong. The court will NOT ask the child where she wants to live. Especially not a nine year old> Thanks for playing. Try not to play again until you know the law, the rules and facts. Nor can he get free legal counsel for custody. Where did you get that idea?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Thank you for your advice.

However, it does raise another question. Her 'income' is more than ours - by a long shot. But, since the SSDI is her son's income, and her other cash income is child support, does that count as 'income' for these purposes? The way I understand it, it does not. She is unemployed and all of the money coming into her household is designated for the various children and not earned by her, therefore she has 'zero' income. She is currently receiving $880/mo SSDI, 300/mo child support EACH for 2 of her kids, 400/mo EACH for the other 2 and 100/mo for my husband's daughter; a total of $2300/mo cash, untaxed of course. She wants to, and it looks like (according to the state calculation forms is possible) raise my husband's support to $400/mo. PLUS, her rent is 100% subsidized through HUD, and she gets a check every month to cover her utilities and $700/mo in food stamps. That is roughly $4500/mo in benefits and child support, all tax free and unearned. My husband grosses $2697/mo and I gross roughly $800/mo depending on how many hours I can get at work. I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly. I hope you can get what I'm trying to say from what I have here.

As I said in an earlier post, we fully agree that my husband has an obligation to his child. We understand that increases in child support become necessary, however, do you see where we are feeling a little screwed-over here? She is bringing in a lot of money to her household, but it looks like she is bringing in none, because all of the money coming in is designated for the support of her kids. SSDI, child support, welfare support - those are her sources of income, so it isn't really 'income', even though it amounts to nearly twice what my husband and I gross in wages.

In KY, can a seek work order be issued to the custodial parent? She refuses to get a job, so he is held 100% financially responsible. If he were not working and not paying support they would order him to get a job. Can they do the same on her side? And, quite frankly, if one can squeeze out 5 kids, one is healthy enough to work the counter at McDonald's. Sorry to sound crude, but I'm sure you get my point.

We are terrified about what is going to happen in court next week. This literally could totally change our way of life if there is a significant increase. We don't know what to do. When he calls the child support agency they are rude and will not answer questions. I don't get it. He has been nothing but cooperative and is not behind in payments.

When we file for custody, do we do it in Ohio - where we live, or KY - where she lives and where the child support order is? I was told by MY child support case worker in OH that if there is not a custody order he is not even obligated to take her home from his weekends with her. But, again - she is an OH worker and unfamiliar with KY laws and we don't know what state would have jurisdiction in this situation. I know these are really specific questions and we should get a lawyer, but we cannot afford it. Not sure that a lawyer would answer these questions in a free-consultation situation, but I do appreciate your effort to advise us.
I do not see how a 4.00 an hour increase in wages can translate to a 400% increase in child support. How much is he paying currently? Are you sure you used the calculator properly?

Your husband can ask that she be imputed a wage based on what she could realistically earn (typically 40 hours at minimum wage)

You may have to take fewer classes and work full time.
 

cstenson2003

Junior Member
I do not see how a 4.00 an hour increase in wages can translate to a 400% increase in child support. How much is he paying currently? Are you sure you used the calculator properly?

Your husband can ask that she be imputed a wage based on what she could realistically earn (typically 40 hours at minimum wage)

You may have to take fewer classes and work full time.
The way I understand it, based on the paperwork we have from KY his child support was so low because she was receiving cash welfare benefits and they used some kind of minimum of support to establish the original order. Now that she is receiving SSDI for her son she no longer qualifies for cash welfare benefits, therefore she is entitled to an increase in child support. The calculators are really just a plug in the numbers thing, pretty easy to use.

I am in a bachelors program for nursing. I take the classes they tell me to take when I am told to take them - I don't chose my own classes. I would happily put school on hold until we are 'on our feet', however (1) the program is 'finish what you start or start over' (2) delaying the last 2 years of school will serve no purpose and not help anyone (3) quitting or delaying school would then cause us to pay student loans we cannot afford right now. I have no problem working 40, plus being a full time student. The problem is finding a full time job. I work in 2 different hospitals right now with a status of 'as needed' at one and 'part-time' at the other, I make $10/hr. We live in a high-unemployment area (roughly 14%) and finding a job (even at McDonald') is very competitive right now.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
I do not see how a 4.00 an hour increase in wages can translate to a 400% increase in child support. How much is he paying currently? Are you sure you used the calculator properly?

Your husband can ask that she be imputed a wage based on what she could realistically earn (typically 40 hours at minimum wage)

You may have to take fewer classes and work full time.
LD he is only paying $100 a month per one of her posts. His child support would increase to $400 a month. Apparently OP is only working 80 hours a month.
 

stepmom38

Member
OP, I can tell you that if you're coming here to vent...you're in the wrong place. This is a LEGAL forum, and as such...you're going to get LEGAL answers to your questions.

The facts are...the people on this board don't think too highly of steps and usually don't give them the time of day. If they do, it's only to remind you that you are legally "nothing" in the situation. This is true...legally, but in the real world...I understand where you're coming from. I'm a step and have been reading this board for years. I rarely post because I know that no matter what I say I'll be told that it's "not my business" and to "butt out". Again...legally this is true, so to vent my frustrations I go to another board. This board is fabulous if you're only looking for legal info and I have learned a lot here, but you'll find no sympathy from anyone. If you'd like...PM me and I'll send you some links to some other boards that are much more step-friendly.

In the meantime...the only way to get this outdated and broken system changed, is to change the laws. Get involved. Write your representatives. Make them work for YOU...the way they're supposed to. There is progress being made, but there's still so much that needs to be done. Good luck to you...stay strong and try not to let her gaming of the system get to you. I'm a firm believer in "what goes around...comes around".
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
I have to be honest with you... $100/mo is WAY below what his support obligation should be. And yes, it is entirely likely that it will be raised to guideline. I know that's not what you want to hear, but better to be prepared than not.

As for custody? I would not hold your collective breath. Filing now WILL look to the court like it's all about the support. And no, the court is NOT going to ask a 9yo where s/he wants to live.
 

CourtClerk

Senior Member
Out of pure curiosity...

What percentage of the child's support do you, OP think your husband's $3.33 per day is contributing to the child's overall support?

That includes her share of food, electricity, water, shelter, CLOTHING, hygiene items, etc. $3. I don't think you can buy a Happy Meal for that...:rolleyes:
 

cstenson2003

Junior Member
Out of pure curiosity...

What percentage of the child's support do you, OP think your husband's $3.33 per day is contributing to the child's overall support?

That includes her share of food, electricity, water, shelter, CLOTHING, hygiene items, etc. $3. I don't think you can buy a Happy Meal for that...:rolleyes:

Ok - I never said I disagree with it going up. I do understand that it will go up. YES he (we) have a financial obligation to this child, we do not argue that. Our argument is that it is going to quadruple and WILL cause us to lose our home. And do they consider extraordinary expenses of the father - such as medical conditions and do they consider what he pays for her portion of the health/dental/vision coverage he carries. In other words (or words I used originally) - what factors, besides income, are considered when adjusting child support? WE DO NOT ARGUE THAT IT WILL & SHOULD GO UP - WE ARE ARGUING THE AMOUNT IT WILL GO UP.

While I understand step-parents are the scum of the earth (at least on this forum), my husbands financial situation effects me and my kids. I was also raised in a manner that family is family - step, adoption, etc. do not figure into it in any way. So forgive me if I use 'we', 'us', 'together', 'ours', etc. too often - it is a force of habit.

My OPINION (and I know "I" don't count) is that someone living as she does, making the choices she does, and gaming the system as she does SUCKS royally and WE are being punished because SHE refuses to work - something WE have no control over, but have to pay the price for. If she were working she would be required to contribute a percentage of her income to the child support, and my husbands support would not be going quite so high (although, to reiterate, again, we know it will go up). However, because she CHOOSES not to work, my husband is 100% financially responsible resulting in higher support. We feel she should be forced to contribute as well.

Thank you for making me feel like pond scum.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
LD he is only paying $100 a month per one of her posts. His child support would increase to $400 a month. Apparently OP is only working 80 hours a month.
Ok...that makes total sense. Even 400.00 a month is not very high for child support.

Dad could probably find a second job that would earn him the additional 300.00 a month without too much trouble.
 

cstenson2003

Junior Member
Ok...that makes total sense. Even 400.00 a month is not very high for child support.

Dad could probably find a second job that would earn him the additional 300.00 a month without too much trouble.
Except that child support is based on his income. Additional income = additional support.

Not to mention the fact that I've already stated - we live in a high unemployment area - 14% unemployment in our county, between 11-15% in the surrounding counties. There are no other jobs here.
 
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