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Let's change child support laws for NCP

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CSO286

Senior Member
Perhaps Tina wishes to strengthen enforcement of the laws for deadbeats...?
One could hope.

That would, after all, help the general public by reducing the number of custodial parents seeking public assistance when the non-custodial parent fails to meet their court ordered support obligation.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
One could hope.

That would, after all, help the general public by reducing the number of custodial parents seeking public assistance when the non-custodial parent fails to meet their court ordered support obligation.
That's ridiculous.
1. Nonsupport case cases are prosecuted mainly against poor people who do not have the means to pay.
2. Nonsupport defendants are taken from their families, thrown in jail, and then prosecuted for not being able to keep a job.
2a. Note - the prosecution comes after being thrown in jail.
2b. They also take the person's license, which results in reduced ability to earn an income and frequently additional charges.
3. Child support is frequently administratively awarded and the NCP's actual financial status or capability is not considered.

Our nonsupport laws are a travesty of justice and a return to debtors prisons. Additionally, child support is one of the only debts for which you can be imprisoned.

TD
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
That's ridiculous.
1. Nonsupport case cases are prosecuted mainly against poor people who do not have the means to pay.
2. Nonsupport defendants are taken from their families, thrown in jail, and then prosecuted for not being able to keep a job.
2a. Note - the prosecution comes after being thrown in jail.
2b. They also take the person's license, which results in reduced ability to earn an income and frequently additional charges.
3. Child support is frequently administratively awarded and the NCP's actual financial status or capability is not considered.

Our nonsupport laws are a travesty of justice and a return to debtors prisons. Additionally, child support is one of the only debts for which you can be imprisoned.

TD
That is total BS. Ncps who are so determined not to pay that they end up prosecuted come from ALL walks of life. In addition while child support is frequently administratively ordered its very rare that its ordered without the proper input on the income of the ncp, and when that does happen its when the ncp deliberately hides from the system.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
That is total BS. Ncps who are so determined not to pay that they end up prosecuted come from ALL walks of life. In addition while child support is frequently administratively ordered its very rare that its ordered without the proper input on the income of the ncp, and when that does happen its when the ncp deliberately hides from the system.
Sorry but you are incorrect. Administrative orders do not impute income nationwide. They do not take into consideration potential deviations. They do not always take into consideration other children. Many NCPs want to pay but can't because they have been unemployed and looking for work and then they lose their driver's license which makes getting a job difficult. I agree with TigerD. That is not to say there are not deadbeats. But there are also parents who fell on hard times and fell behind but want to support their children.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Sorry but you are incorrect. Administrative orders do not impute income nationwide. They do not take into consideration potential deviations. They do not always take into consideration other children. Many NCPs want to pay but can't because they have been unemployed and looking for work and then they lose their driver's license which makes getting a job difficult. I agree with TigerD. That is not to say there are not deadbeats. But there are also parents who fell on hard times and fell behind but want to support their children.
I think that you need to go back and re-read what Tiger said, and then re-read what I said. He said that non support cases were mostly prosecuted against poor people. I said that deadbeat came from all walks of life. I was specifically speaking about deadbeats...not about people with temporary inabilities to pay.

On top of that...I said that administrative orders are rarely done without proper input on the ncp's income. You said administrative orders do not impute income. How is that so different? The fact that I said rare instead of never????
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
I think that you need to go back and re-read what Tiger said, and then re-read what I said. He said that non support cases were mostly prosecuted against poor people. I said that deadbeat came from all walks of life. I was specifically speaking about deadbeats...not about people with temporary inabilities to pay.

On top of that...I said that administrative orders are rarely done without proper input on the ncp's income. You said administrative orders do not impute income. How is that so different? The fact that I said rare instead of never????
I agree with Tiger. I reread what you stated -- and I don't completely disagree. I retract my statement about you being wrong. I don't believe you are fully correct. The vast majority of people prosecuted are poor and unable to pay. The vast majority are then sent into a spiral. Those prosecuted for non support at least here, are prosecuted as FELONS, which seriously limits their ability to find work. They lose their driver's licenses. They are usually not college educated. Those are all facts from what I have seen and who I have seen prosecuted. Sure, while deadbeats may be from all walks of life, the ones most likely prosecuted for criminal non support are the poor.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I agree with Tiger. I reread what you stated -- and I don't completely disagree. I retract my statement about you being wrong. I don't believe you are fully correct. The vast majority of people prosecuted are poor and unable to pay. The vast majority are then sent into a spiral. Those prosecuted for non support at least here, are prosecuted as FELONS, which seriously limits their ability to find work. They lose their driver's licenses. They are usually not college educated. Those are all facts from what I have seen and who I have seen prosecuted. Sure, while deadbeats may be from all walks of life, the ones most likely prosecuted for criminal non support are the poor.
Some of the worst deadbeats that I have seen are upper middle class or even wealthy. However, I think I can agree that not very many of them are prosecuted CRIMINALLY for non-support because they give in and make at least some payment before it gets that far. I also agreeing that making non-support a criminal felony does make it even harder for them to get decent jobs.
 

I'mTheFather

Senior Member
That is total BS. Ncps who are so determined not to pay that they end up prosecuted come from ALL walks of life. In addition while child support is frequently administratively ordered its very rare that its ordered without the proper input on the income of the ncp, and when that does happen its when the ncp deliberately hides from the system.
I think the bolded is the part that OG probably reacted to. I agree. That statement is incorrect.
 

single317dad

Senior Member
That's ridiculous.
1. Nonsupport case cases are prosecuted mainly against poor people who do not have the means to pay.
2. Nonsupport defendants are taken from their families, thrown in jail, and then prosecuted for not being able to keep a job.
2a. Note - the prosecution comes after being thrown in jail.
2b. They also take the person's license, which results in reduced ability to earn an income and frequently additional charges.
3. Child support is frequently administratively awarded and the NCP's actual financial status or capability is not considered.

Our nonsupport laws are a travesty of justice and a return to debtors prisons. Additionally, child support is one of the only debts for which you can be imprisoned.

TD
What should we, who don't receive any support from the deadbeats, do then? Continue to ask nicely?

It's not a debtor's prison; it's a prison for people who refuse to financially support their children, whom they created in the throes of passion.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Technically, they are not facing jail for being in debt, they are going to jail for failing to adhere to a court order. I think I have known more people who have intentionally skirted their responsibilities than have faced adversity ... but, that's personal observation, not any sort of statistical fact. I hear more stories about how people have quit jobs or gone to work under the table to avoid paying support than I have people who have run afoul of the law when they lost their jobs. The latter folks seem to often pursue the proper avenues to get a respite from payments, or seek an adjustment. Or, maybe, they tend to have a more understanding ex. As someone who is still married 25+ years later and still supporting my college age kids, maybe support would be cheaper!
 

tuffbrk

Senior Member
That's ridiculous.
1. Nonsupport case cases are prosecuted mainly against poor people who do not have the means to pay.
2. Nonsupport defendants are taken from their families, thrown in jail, and then prosecuted for not being able to keep a job.
2a. Note - the prosecution comes after being thrown in jail.
2b. They also take the person's license, which results in reduced ability to earn an income and frequently additional charges.
3. Child support is frequently administratively awarded and the NCP's actual financial status or capability is not considered.

Our nonsupport laws are a travesty of justice and a return to debtors prisons. Additionally, child support is one of the only debts for which you can be imprisoned.

TD
You may be interested in reading about Child support & incarceration in Bergen County in New Jersey. Talk about a travesty of justice. Even after the State Supreme Court had Bergen County empty their jails, a month later they were right back at it. In many counties in NJ we see the requirement to hold an "ability to pay" hearing completely overlooked. And our local newspapers love nothing more than to print the names of anyone picked up for supposed non-payment which is done regularly at holiday time. This is published regardless of so many being arrested on outstanding support that isn't owed. Numerous instances of NCP not filing to stop CS accruing and so it appears there are arrears when in fact nothing is owed. The state paid big bucks to a company to file liens and then had to pay again to have the liens released. You would think they would find another way. I swear this state will do anything to keep their portion of the federal funds coming in.

The Bergen Dispatch had multiple stories that would raise your eyebrows.

P.S. My comments are not meant to detract from those who are owed more than their annual salary and have sacrificed endlessly to provide for their children. There are deadbeats everywhere for all manner of things, financially or otherwise.
 
Child support can seem unfair at first. Every week, there goes a significant percentage of your income being sent to the other parent who you probably don't like since you'd probably still be with him / her if you did. You may see them driving a new car or buying a new house all while thinking your support payments are funding these expenditures. If you seriously looked and examined just how much money is spent on raising kids, you'd probably find that the other parent spends significantly more than you. Child expenses go beyond food and clothing. A larger place to live is required so their rent is higher. More utilities are used (gas, electric, oil etc.). The child has to eat, they outgrow clothes like crazy, they get sick and require medical attention, dental work, possible braces, extra gasoline and car wear and tear driving them around. The list goes on.

The bottom line is that as much as you are paying, there is very high chance that the other parent pays more.
 
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