Lying about income.

[2boys]

What is the name of your state? OH

I'm sorry if something similar to this has already been posted but I recently received a modification in my child support order after having waited the required 3 years after the initial support order.
At the first hearing it is my belief that the childrens father lied about his income. He presented them with a piece of paper that says he is self-employed and earns only $12,000.hey accepted that. I knew he was lying, but I couldn't prove it. (This was in 2001)


Anyway fast forward 4-5 years and I get the review back from CSEA and this guy had the nerve to say that he is still self-employed and only earns $18,000 but that after taxes and business expenses he only earns $14,000. I did get an increase in support, a 71% increase, only goodness knows whether or not he'll pay a dime towards it. but as you can imagine 71% against $14,000......

well, the funny thing is in 2002 he went ahead and bought himself a new car and a very nice home for $180,000. Wonderful, I'm happy for him, maybe he won the lottery but I'm sorry the feeling in the pit of my stomach says he lied.
He made the mistake however, of mentioning to a CSEA worker (maybe he was flirting at the time and got carried away ) that he did NOT pay taxes.

but my time is coming where I need to know if I'm going to file a court order to have his records subpoene (uuuumm....one moment while I get a dictionary, sorry) subpoenad (ugh). anyway, any advice? it will be $25 to file and I'd have to represent myself. I can't afford an attorney.
It's not so much that I expect he'll pay up, but it's more along the lines at the disbelief that he is allowed to lie so much to the system and they accept it!

All thoughts are welcome.
Thanx.

[bononos]

Originally Posted by 2boys

What is the name of your state? OH

I'm sorry if something similar to this has already been posted but I recently received a modification in my child support order after having waited the required 3 years after the initial support order.
At the first hearing it is my belief that the childrens father lied about his income. He presented them with a piece of paper that says he is self-employed and earns only $12,000.hey accepted that. I knew he was lying, but I couldn't prove it. (This was in 2001)


Anyway fast forward 4-5 years and I get the review back from CSEA and this guy had the nerve to say that he is still self-employed and only earns $18,000 but that after taxes and business expenses he only earns $14,000. I did get an increase in support, a 71% increase, only goodness knows whether or not he'll pay a dime towards it. but as you can imagine 71% against $14,000......

well, the funny thing is in 2002 he went ahead and bought himself a new car and a very nice home for $180,000. Wonderful, I'm happy for him, maybe he won the lottery but I'm sorry the feeling in the pit of my stomach says he lied.
He made the mistake however, of mentioning to a CSEA worker (maybe he was flirting at the time and got carried away ) that he did NOT pay taxes.

but my time is coming where I need to know if I'm going to file a court order to have his records subpoene (uuuumm....one moment while I get a dictionary, sorry) subpoenad (ugh). anyway, any advice? it will be $25 to file and I'd have to represent myself. I can't afford an attorney.
It's not so much that I expect he'll pay up, but it's more along the lines at the disbelief that he is allowed to lie so much to the system and they accept it!

All thoughts are welcome.
Thanx.

At least he claims something.
My ex claims nothing from self-employment AND collects unemployment.
Same situation with me, so I'll be interested to see your responses.

I've so far reported ex to IRS, unemployment, and state assistance hoping they'll catch him and I'll have proof from them.

[bononos]

What does he do for a living?

[fairisfair]

I would be more interested to know if the car and house are in his name.

[bononos]

Originally Posted by fairisfair

I would be more interested to know if the car and house are in his name.

Doesn't matter, at least in my case it didn't.
I've tried to bring to light the fact my ex owns 2 vehicles...paying over $650 a month just in car payments, let's add in the insurance for both whith him having a DUI, plus the boat he owns. (all in his name)
Even the fact he has this attorney he can afford while collecting unemployment????
They only care about pay-stubs and W-2's.

[fairisfair]

Originally Posted by bononos

Doesn't matter, at least in my case it didn't.
I've tried to bring to light the fact my ex owns 2 vehicles...paying over $650 a month just in car payments, let's add in the insurance for both whith him having a DUI, plus the boat he owns. (all in his name)
Even the fact he has this attorney he can afford while collecting unemployment????
They only care about pay-stubs and W-2's.

That sucks. I thought that was the point of discovery, being able to show an excess of expenditures in correlation with the supposed income. Does your ex have a new Mrs X, is that how he is geting away with it?

[bononos]

Originally Posted by fairisfair

That sucks. I thought that was the point of discovery, being able to show an excess of expenditures in correlation with the supposed income. Does your ex have a new Mrs X, is that how he is geting away with it?

Nope, he lives with his mommy, isn't that cute.
Gotta love a 28 yr. old man living with his mommy.
That is another way he gets around this stuff, claims his Mom is paying for everything, including the attorney.
Discovery may work for OP, but it is useless for me. Espically, if like you mentioned, her ex has a new Mrs. X.

[fairisfair]

Originally Posted by bononos

Nope, he lives with his mommy, isn't that cute.
Gotta love a 28 yr. old man living with his mommy.
That is another way he gets around this stuff, claims his Mom is paying for everything, including the attorney.
Discovery may work for OP, but it is useless for me. Espically, if like you mentioned, her ex has a new Mrs. X.

Yes, I can see how in your case, his expenditures (cars etc) don't really matter, cause he isn't paying for anything else. And, cute was not the word I was looking for.

But, if he (OP's) Mr. X isn't in the same situation, doesn't have a new Mrs. X and has all of this in his own name then there has to be a paper trail on the payments etc. NO WAY is he paying for all this stuff on $14k.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by fairisfair

Yes, I can see how in your case, his expenditures (cars etc) don't really matter, cause he isn't paying for anything else. And, cute was not the word I was looking for.

But, if he (OP's) Mr. X isn't in the same situation, doesn't have a new Mrs. X and has all of this in his own name then there has to be a paper trail on the payments etc. NO WAY is he paying for all this stuff on $14k.

Reporting him to the IRS isn't a bad idea. However, I will tell you that many self employed people seriously cheat on their taxes and get away with it for a very long time.
However when they do get caught, they are in a WORLD of hurt.

[bononos]

Originally Posted by fairisfair

But, if he (OP's) Mr. X isn't in the same situation, doesn't have a new Mrs. X and has all of this in his own name then there has to be a paper trail on the payments etc. NO WAY is he paying for all this stuff on $14k.

True.
I hope for her sake.
It's just very hard to prove, so again OP, I suggest IRS reporting. There is an on-line form to report, they'll ask clients or locations of work that they can look into as proof of unclaimed income.

Originally Posted by 2boys

but my time is coming where I need to know if I'm going to file a court order to have his records subpoene (uuuumm....one moment while I get a dictionary, sorry) subpoenad (ugh). anyway, any advice? it will be $25 to file and I'd have to represent myself. I can't afford an attorney.

IIRC, it is most likely too late to do anything about it now. The time to subpoena this stuff was BEFORE the hearing. Even if you're in the window to appeal it (30 days), you don't have enough time to subpoena him as Ohio statutes require a mimimum of 28 days for discovery. That is IF he complies or doesn't ask for more time to produce.

It's not so much that I expect he'll pay up, but it's more along the lines at the disbelief that he is allowed to lie so much to the system and they accept it!

Well if you believe he is lying, it's up to YOU to prove it...not the system. Looks like you're going to be stuck with what was ordered.

[2boys]

Originally Posted by nicetryadmin

IIRC, it is most likely too late to do anything about it now. The time to subpoena this stuff was BEFORE the hearing. Even if you're in the window to appeal it (30 days), you don't have enough time to subpoena him as Ohio statutes require a mimimum of 28 days for discovery. That is IF he complies or doesn't ask for more time to produce.


Well if you believe he is lying, it's up to YOU to prove it...not the system. Looks like you're going to be stuck with what was ordered.

yeah, see this was only CSEA, this was not court.

the part you're trying to tell me about is only during court. You cannot subpeanoa anything during a CSEA modification review, you don't even meet face to face.

I never said it was up to the system to rove anything, so I don't know where you came from with THAT.
but thanx for your input.

[2boys]

Originally Posted by fairisfair

I would be more interested to know if the car and house are in his name.

Yes both the car and the house are in his name. I looked up the deed on the county auditor's page.

Originally Posted by 2boys

yeah, see this was only CSEA, this was not court.

the part you're trying to tell me about is only during court. You cannot subpeanoa anything during a CSEA modification review, you don't even meet face to face.

Well you seem to have had all of the answers to begin with. So, WTF did you come here??

I never said it was up to the system to rove anything, so I don't know where you came from with THAT.

How quickly you forget...YOU are the one who was claiming he was lying. So if you believe he is, then it's up to YOU to prove it. I thought it was pretty simple to comprehend....

Originally Posted by 2boys

Yes both the car and the house are in his name. I looked up the deed on the county auditor's page.

That does not mean he paid for it.