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Male activists want say in unplanned pregnancy

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seniorjudge

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? Missouri

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/08/fatherhood.suit.ap/

LAW CENTER
Male activists want say in unplanned pregnancy

Lawsuit seeks right to decline financial responsibility for kids

Thursday, March 9, 2006; Posted: 6:52 a.m. EST (11:52 GMT)

story.vert.dubay.ap.jpg

Matt Dubay contends his ex-girlfriend assured him she was unable to get pregnant.

NEW YORK (AP) -- Contending that women have more options than they do in the event of an unintended pregnancy, men's rights activists are mounting a long shot legal campaign aimed at giving them the chance to opt out of financial responsibility for raising a child.

The National Center for Men has prepared a lawsuit -- nicknamed Roe v. Wade for Men -- to be filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Michigan on behalf of a 25-year-old computer programmer ordered to pay child support for his ex-girlfriend's daughter.

The suit addresses the issue of male reproductive rights, contending that lack of such rights violates the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause.

The gist of the argument: If a pregnant woman can choose among abortion, adoption or raising a child, a man involved in an unintended pregnancy should have the choice of declining the financial responsibilities of fatherhood. The activists involved hope to spark discussion even if they lose.

"There's such a spectrum of choice that women have -- it's her body, her pregnancy and she has the ultimate right to make decisions," said Mel Feit, director of the men's center. "I'm trying to find a way for a man also to have some say over decisions that affect his life profoundly."

Feit's organization has been trying since the early 1990s to pursue such a lawsuit, and finally found a suitable plaintiff in Matt Dubay of Saginaw, Michigan.

Dubay says he has been ordered to pay $500 a month in child support for a girl born last year to his ex-girlfriend. He contends that the woman knew he didn't want to have a child with her and assured him repeatedly that -- because of a physical condition -- she could not get pregnant.

Dubay is braced for the lawsuit to fail.

"What I expect to hear [from the court] is that the way things are is not really fair, but that's the way it is," he said in a telephone interview. "Just to create awareness would be enough, to at least get a debate started."

State courts have ruled in the past that any inequity experienced by men like Dubay is outweighed by society's interest in ensuring that children get financial support from two parents. Melanie Jacobs, a Michigan State University law professor, said the federal court might rule similarly in Dubay's case.

"The courts are trying to say it may not be so fair that this gentleman has to support a child he didn't want, but it's less fair to say society has to pay the support," she said.

Feit, however, says a fatherhood opt-out wouldn't necessarily impose higher costs on society or the mother. A woman who balked at abortion but felt she couldn't afford to raise a child could put the baby up for adoption, he said.
'This is so politically incorrect'

Jennifer Brown of the women's rights advocacy group Legal Momentum objected to the men's center comparing Dubay's lawsuit to Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling establishing a woman's right to have an abortion.

"Roe is based on an extreme intrusion by the government -- literally to force a woman to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want," Brown said. "There's nothing equivalent for men. They have the same ability as women to use contraception, to get sterilized."

Feit counters that the suit's reference to abortion rights is apt.

"Roe says a woman can choose to have intimacy and still have control over subsequent consequences," he said. "No one has ever asked a federal court if that means men should have some similar say."

"The problem is this is so politically incorrect," Feit added. "The public is still dealing with the pre-Roe ethic when it comes to men, that if a man fathers a child, he should accept responsibility."

Feit doesn't advocate an unlimited fatherhood opt-out; he proposes a brief period in which a man, after learning of an unintended pregnancy, could decline parental responsibilities if the relationship was one in which neither partner had desired a child.

"If the woman changes her mind and wants the child, she should be responsible," Feit said. "If she can't take care of the child, adoption is a good alternative."

The president of the National Organization for Women, Kim Gandy, acknowledged that disputes over unintended pregnancies can be complex and bitter.

"None of these are easy questions," said Gandy, a former prosecutor. "But most courts say it's not about what he did or didn't do or what she did or didn't do. It's about the rights of the child."

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
 


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nicetryadmin

Guest
Claire's mom said:
Guy had a choice already...
To Zip or not to Zip...
Another person posting a response who's missing the big picture here. I posted a link to this story last week and saw the responses. Most of which, like yours, is missing the bigger picture here and simply DO NOT get it.

With the directions things are swinging in this country, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this case as a waste or a joke. Look at South Dakota and their intentional attempt to have SUPCO re-address Roe v. Wade and rule it unconstitutional.

And if you or anyone else thinks the SD thing is about abortion, you need to sit back and look at the BIGGER picture.

Perhaps before responding, sit back and see what all of this is really about. They are both tied to each other.
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
nicetryadmin said:
Another person posting a response who's missing the big picture here. I posted a link to this story last week and saw the responses. Most of which, like yours, is missing the bigger picture here and simply DO NOT get it.

With the directions things are swinging in this country, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this case as a waste or a joke. Look at South Dakota and their intentional attempt to have SUPCO re-address Roe v. Wade and rule it unconstitutional.

And if you or anyone else thinks the SD thing is about abortion, you need to sit back and look at the BIGGER picture.

Perhaps before responding, sit back and see what all of this is really about. They are both tied to each other.


You're the one who doesn't get it.

When a man "washes his feet" (to use the quaint Biblical euphemism) he is responsible for his own actions.

Period.

End of story.

Even if.

Don't blame the victim.


In other words, if you don't want your wienie to get you in trouble then keep it under control.

Understand that? It's really simple.:D
 
What about a presexual agreement?

I think that it should be legal for a Person that wants to have sex, but doesn't want to have the responsibility to bring a contract to the bedroom of his intended sex partner that states...This is only sex...I don't want any children with you or from this union, and she by law would then have the opportunity to sign the document prior to intercourse (with dates and times) or send him packing! they could be distributed in condom sized packages in boxes of 36 so before sex the guy can just whip one out with the attached mini pen....
I would be willing to bet that this would end their argument and he would be going home very frustrated! How many of these deadbeats would be able to find women willing to sign something like that:rolleyes: What I think is really sick about this whole thing is.... how many men have told a woman that they "love" her, want to be with her, and then when they find out she is pregnant they run for the hills screaming that they didn't want children ever, and that she trapped them....I think a presexual agreement would eliminate any question as to their original intent and if one wasn't signed he is on the hook reguardless.....What do you guys think?
 
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So, nicetry... I guess any guy that is w/ someone can later change their mind when they find out it results in a baby & say... well, she told me she was on BC... now she HAS to terminate. Get real! Many guys will say anything at the time of the event (lol..), and then when it makes a baby...
they suddenly feel they should have all of these "rights". They had their right to play... now they have their RIGHT to pay
 

JesB

Member
Actually I do see the whole picture and I think it is great. you know, I heard of this case where a teenage (I think about 11) kid was raped by his babysitter and she got pregnant from it. He is now financially responsible for that child. The fact still remains that just as contraceptives don't always work for females, they don't always work for males as well. I do think that men should at least be able to bring their case to court and explan the circumstances of their situation before they are demed financially responsible for that child that even though they never wanted, mom does. I don't think it fair that one persons decision should be enough to make both parties liable. That is like if I stole something from a store because my friend told me to then she is charged with shoplifting as well. After all, I had the option to take precautions of my own to prevent me from getting arrested.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
JesB said:
Actually I do see the whole picture and I think it is great. you know, I heard of this case where a teenage (I think about 11) kid was raped by his babysitter and she got pregnant from it. He is now financially responsible for that child. The fact still remains that just as contraceptives don't always work for females, they don't always work for males as well. I do think that men should at least be able to bring their case to court and explan the circumstances of their situation before they are demed financially responsible for that child that even though they never wanted, mom does. I don't think it fair that one persons decision should be enough to make both parties liable. That is like if I stole something from a store because my friend told me to then she is charged with shoplifting as well. After all, I had the option to take precautions of my own to prevent me from getting arrested.
Bottom line: If Dad is going to have EQUAL financial responsibility, he should have EQUAL rights to custody. THAT'S FAIR. AS it stands now, mom must basically be UNFIT before he truly has any shot at raising his own child.

If all potential moms didn't KNOW that they were pretty much assured custody and the right to file for support, but might instead be in the SAME position as Dad and paying support, maybe they'd be far more PROACTIVE to prevent pregnancy. And preventing all these out-of-relationship pregnancies would be a GOOD thing for our society.
 

Neal1421

Senior Member
nextwife said:
Bottom line: If Dad is going to have EQUAL financial responsibility, he should have EQUAL rights to custody. THAT'S FAIR. AS it stands now, mom must basically be UNFIT before he truly has any shot at raising his own child.

If all potential moms didn't KNOW that they were pretty much assured custody and the right to file for support, but might instead be in the SAME position as Dad and paying support, maybe they'd be far more PROACTIVE to prevent pregnancy. And preventing all these out-of-relationship pregnancies would be a GOOD thing for our society.
Well put. I concur.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
Claire's mom said:
They had their right to play... now they have their RIGHT to pay
They BOTH had the right to play, now they should BOTH have the right to raise the child and share in the support together.
 
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nicetryadmin

Guest
seniorjudge said:
You're the one who doesn't get it.

When a man "washes his feet" (to use the quaint Biblical euphemism) he is responsible for his own actions.

Period.

End of story.

Even if.

Don't blame the victim.


In other words, if you don't want your wienie to get you in trouble then keep it under control.

Understand that? It's really simple.:D
I DO get it. Very clearly. Unlike those who like to pass blame, I am not passing blame on anyone. If two people are irresponsible, then they both need to be responsible. But we all know that even w/protection and precautions, pregnancies do still happen. I am not referring to those simply trying to weasel their way out from their irresponsibilities.

As I said, there is a bigger issue here that I see with this ruling and it also coincides with the SD ruling. I know hope someone in your position can see that. The elephant in the room is NOT "if you play, you pay."
 
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nicetryadmin

Guest
Claire's mom said:
So, nicetry... I guess any guy that is w/ someone can later change their mind when they find out it results in a baby & say... well, she told me she was on BC... now she HAS to terminate. Get real!
So how would that be any different that a woman in SD who is pregnant and wishes to terminate her pregnancy?

Are we getting it yet?

Many guys will say anything at the time of the event (lol..), and then when it makes a baby...
they suddenly feel they should have all of these "rights". They had their right to play... now they have their RIGHT to pay
This has nothing to do with "right to play, right to play." There are men AND WOMEN who are irresponsible when it comes to sex and there are plenty of women out there who use the system (whether it be welfare, child support or BOTH) by claiming "laying on their back" is a career. Same goes w/guys who think they can shoot and leave. Some of you really need to stop playing this "keep it zipped" card.
 
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genivieve

Member
seniorjudge said:
Don't blame the victim.



Understand that? It's really simple.:D

Oh yes very smart response. Nah your not one sided or anything. LOL. Its much better for the victim to be sucked out the uterus, mangled into a thousand blood pieces, then put into a nice little jar . Or better yet the good old saline injections at 4 months, nothing like a burnt baby disposed of in the clinics trash.

Gee, if a man was doing this to his body/baby surely there would be a revolt and some public executions**************.....
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
nicetryadmin said:
I DO get it. Very clearly. Unlike those who like to pass blame, I am not passing blame on anyone. If two people are irresponsible, then they both need to be responsible. But we all know that even w/protection and precautions, pregnancies do still happen. I am not referring to those simply trying to weasel their way out from their irresponsibilities.

As I said, there is a bigger issue here that I see with this ruling and it also coincides with the SD ruling. I know hope someone in your position can see that. The elephant in the room is NOT "if you play, you pay."
But the thing is NTA, you know the outcome. you know the birth control is not 100% and the only thing 100% is abstinence. Hence you know the risks going in. Unless you are like the other thread poster who said his girlfriend got HERSELF pregnant but i digress.
Therefore if you don't want to risk having a child you don't have sex. That is what the rules are for both men and women.
 
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