Need help to determine what is fair

[starting over]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kentucky

I am going to be separating from my Husband of 5 1/2 years, we have a 16 mo daughter. He is currently under a CS support obligation which will end in April, his son will turn 18 and be out of HS (Georgia order)


My Husband is asking for joint legal/physical custody of our daughter, which I don't have a problem with giving. He told me that if he has joint custody, he won't have to pay any child support. Well, if he were to actually take 50/50 time or anything in the ballpark, I might somewhat agree. But, he just wants this on paper, not actually having her overnights and being the one to take her to daycare. He has however said he would take her every weekend, which even if I were to agree (which I wont), wouldn't last very long.

She is his 11th child, he has a proven track record with this type of situation. But, as much as I hope he will be different, he would have to show it for me to believe it. I want him to have a relationship with his daughter, he or any of his family can come and get her anytime. He is her Dad & I will do everything to encourage a relationship between them. Her relationship with him has nothing to do with mine with him.

This may or may not be important: We have always maintained separate finances. The house is in his name only and so are his vehicles. My cars are also solely in my name, we have no joint assets and each have our separate bills. He pays the house payment & insurance. I pay the electric, water, phone, satellite, garbage, food and daycare and provide all needs for the baby. The only medical bill he has paid was $200 of a $500 bill from her ear tubes. I have paid all of the bills for her & I from her birth. He does provide the medical insurance for both of us.

Based on the calculations, once his currect CS ends he would be responsible for $750.00. This is the proposal I need help in determing, can this even be done? I would like for us to have joint legal, he has a right to make decisions too. However, as far as joint physical I would like the determination to kind of be deferred for 6 months. I would like for him to pay 1/2 of daycare & 1/2 of a box of diapers which would total $200 a month. If he does keep the baby a couple of days or overnights a week (I wouldn't push a true 50/50, just time) then the support would remain at that and joint physical custody given. But, if he didn't take her or spend time with her, then the support would go to the state guideline & I would get sole physical or whatever is appropriate. Is it cut & dry sole or joint or is there another type of split? Im trying to be as fair as possible, but I don't feel that I should be the only one to shoulder all financial responsibilities. Any advice?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kentucky

I am going to be separating from my Husband of 5 1/2 years, we have a 16 mo daughter. He is currently under a CS support obligation which will end in April, his son will turn 18 and be out of HS (Georgia order)

Okay.

My Husband is asking for joint legal/physical custody of our daughter, which I don't have a problem with giving. He told me that if he has joint custody, he won't have to pay any child support. Well, if he were to actually take 50/50 time or anything in the ballpark, I might somewhat agree. But, he just wants this on paper, not actually having her overnights and being the one to take her to daycare. He has however said he would take her every weekend, which even if I were to agree (which I wont), wouldn't last very long.

He could be granted joint legal/physical custody.

She is his 11th child, he has a proven track record with this type of situation.

And yet you still allowed him to impregnate you and you announced to the world that he was a FIT and appropriate father for YOUR child. Now, why would you do that? How is it that he only has one child support order for 11 children? Are those children ALL over the age of majority?

But, as much as I hope he will be different, he would have to show it for me to believe it.

Actually he won't have to show anything to you.

I want him to have a relationship with his daughter, he or any of his family can come and get her anytime. He is her Dad & I will do everything to encourage a relationship between them. Her relationship with him has nothing to do with mine with him.

Okay.

This may or may not be important: We have always maintained separate finances. The house is in his name only and so are his vehicles. My cars are also solely in my name, we have no joint assets and each have our separate bills.

Anything bought during the marriage is marital property. So you do have joint assets -- they may not be titled jointly but you have marital assets. Any debt incurred during the marriage is MARITAL debt.

He pays the house payment & insurance. I pay the electric, water, phone, satellite, garbage, food and daycare and provide all needs for the baby. The only medical bill he has paid was $200 of a $500 bill from her ear tubes. I have paid all of the bills for her & I from her birth. He does provide the medical insurance for both of us.

Okay. And?

Based on the calculations, once his currect CS ends he would be responsible for $750.00. This is the proposal I need help in determing, can this even be done?

Maybe.

I would like for us to have joint legal, he has a right to make decisions too. However, as far as joint physical I would like the determination to kind of be deferred for 6 months

Nope.

I would like for him to pay 1/2 of daycare & 1/2 of a box of diapers which would total $200 a month.

Diapers are to be bought from child support.

If he does keep the baby a couple of days or overnights a week (I wouldn't push a true 50/50, just time) then the support would remain at that and joint physical custody given. But, if he didn't take her or spend time with her, then the support would go to the state guideline & I would get sole physical or whatever is appropriate. Is it cut & dry sole or joint or is there another type of split?

Joint physical custody can mean anything. It doesn't have to mean 50/50 time.

Im trying to be as fair as possible, but I don't feel that I should be the only one to shoulder all financial responsibilities. Any advice?

How about you give him the custody that you want for yourself and pay him child support. Then you wouldn't have to shoulder all the financial responsibilities?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kentucky

I am going to be separating from my Husband of 5 1/2 years, we have a 16 mo daughter. He is currently under a CS support obligation which will end in April, his son will turn 18 and be out of HS (Georgia order)


My Husband is asking for joint legal/physical custody of our daughter, which I don't have a problem with giving. He told me that if he has joint custody, he won't have to pay any child support. Well, if he were to actually take 50/50 time or anything in the ballpark, I might somewhat agree. But, he just wants this on paper, not actually having her overnights and being the one to take her to daycare. He has however said he would take her every weekend, which even if I were to agree (which I wont), wouldn't last very long.

She is his 11th child, he has a proven track record with this type of situation. But, as much as I hope he will be different, he would have to show it for me to believe it. I want him to have a relationship with his daughter, he or any of his family can come and get her anytime. He is her Dad & I will do everything to encourage a relationship between them. Her relationship with him has nothing to do with mine with him.

This may or may not be important: We have always maintained separate finances. The house is in his name only and so are his vehicles. My cars are also solely in my name, we have no joint assets and each have our separate bills. He pays the house payment & insurance. I pay the electric, water, phone, satellite, garbage, food and daycare and provide all needs for the baby. The only medical bill he has paid was $200 of a $500 bill from her ear tubes. I have paid all of the bills for her & I from her birth. He does provide the medical insurance for both of us.

Based on the calculations, once his currect CS ends he would be responsible for $750.00. This is the proposal I need help in determing, can this even be done? I would like for us to have joint legal, he has a right to make decisions too. However, as far as joint physical I would like the determination to kind of be deferred for 6 months. I would like for him to pay 1/2 of daycare & 1/2 of a box of diapers which would total $200 a month. If he does keep the baby a couple of days or overnights a week (I wouldn't push a true 50/50, just time) then the support would remain at that and joint physical custody given. But, if he didn't take her or spend time with her, then the support would go to the state guideline & I would get sole physical or whatever is appropriate. Is it cut & dry sole or joint or is there another type of split? Im trying to be as fair as possible, but I don't feel that I should be the only one to shoulder all financial responsibilities. Any advice?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Joint physical custody does not necessarily mean a 50/50 timeshare. Even with a 50/50 timeshare the parent with the higher income still ends up paying some child support. Therefore, if dad makes more money than you then he is wrong that 50/50 means he won't have to pay any child support.

If you do not believe that dad will exercise a 50/50 schedule, then you simply should not agree to that. Only agree to what you believe he will actually exercise...or the minimum standard visitation for your state. Don't let him get away with not properly supporting your mutual child by allowing him more custody "on paper" than he will really exercise.

 

[starting over]

He could be granted joint legal/physical custody.

Yes, he could. I am referring with what I will just openly agree to. I don't feel, which I know is just a personal emotion, that he should have joint physical if he is only going to spend time with her 3 days a month.

And yet you still allowed him to impregnate you and you announced to the world that he was a FIT and appropriate father for YOUR child. Now, why would you do that? How is it that he only has one child support order for 11 children? Are those children ALL over the age of majority?

He's a jerk and a lousy husband, yes. But, he's not an UNFIT or unappropriate father for our daughter. I don't have concerns about how our daughter will be treated with him or his family, just concerns that he will be busy & not make the time. I was never against the idea of having another child, but truly never thought I would be able to carry another one & neither did the doctors. I was 39 years old when I got pg with our daughter, so it was a bit of a surprise to us too. Yes, all of his other children are over the age of majority, he complied with every child support order and does not have any past issues.

Actually he won't have to show anything to you.

If he wants me to just openly agree to it, he kind of will. A judge may very well grant it, but I will express my views through an attorney. If he will actually be with her 1/2 the time (or anywhere close to it) it's a non-issue. But, only wanting the arrangement to try to avoid CS concerns me.

Anything bought during the marriage is marital property. So you do have joint assets -- they may not be titled jointly but you have marital assets. Any debt incurred during the marriage is MARITAL debt.

No debt incurred during the marriage, except my car payment. It will be paid off by March. As far as my interest in the house or property, I am not pursuing any of those assets and he won't pursue mine. Im not out to take him for anything.
Diapers are to be bought from child support.

Yes, everything is to be paid from child support. But, if he's trying to avoid it completely then what do you do? Im trying to come to some sort of compromise outside of court to encourage a relationship & not take him to the cleaners (which I have a feeling I will be accused of either way) But, just trying to explain where I came up with the $200 amount


Joint physical custody can mean anything. It doesn't have to mean 50/50 time.

I didn't realize this.

How about you give him the custody that you want for yourself and pay him child support. Then you wouldn't have to shoulder all the financial responsibilities?

OG, you are missing my point, really you are. He doesn't actually want custody, that would mean being responsible for her. He just wants it on paper. I don't mind giving him joint custody, but he won't use it. He will only want it to minimize child support, thats it.

I am not a parent that has ever tried to keep my children away from their Dad, I have driven my older children 600 miles more than once to take them, just cause they wanted to see Daddy. I have never kept my x from visiting with the kids, if he calls, they go. He only kept with the schedule the 1st year we were divorced & only asked for 1 week a year. For the last 3 summers, my younger son has spent almost the whole summer with him. Why, because my son deserves a relationship with his Dad. Keeping a child away only hurts the child, not my style at all. But, I also don't feel its fair to say one thing like joint physical custody to try to avoid supporting a child, just cause you don't want to pay anything and know that she has a Mom that will make sure she has what she needs and the child will never go without.

Again, I hope I am wrong and he actually does step-up & the reason he hasn't till now was just because he didn't have to.....he had me to handle everything. Thanks for the advice though, I do respect all you guys do here.

 

[starting over]

Joint physical custody does not necessarily mean a 50/50 timeshare. Even with a 50/50 timeshare the parent with the higher income still ends up paying some child support. Therefore, if dad makes more money than you then he is wrong that 50/50 means he won't have to pay any child support.

If you do not believe that dad will exercise a 50/50 schedule, then you simply should not agree to that. Only agree to what you believe he will actually exercise...or the minimum standard visitation for your state. Don't let him get away with not properly supporting your mutual child by allowing him more custody "on paper" than he will really exercise.

My husband makes 2 1/2x the money I do, that is how I came up with the $750 calculation. I don't believe at all that he will utilize even a 75/25 split, strictly based on past performance. But, I really hope he proves me wrong.

 

[Ohiogal]

Nah. i got your point. You are the one missing mine. Continue however in your ignorance and oblivion.

 

[starting over]

Nah. i got your point. You are the one missing mine. Continue however in your ignorance and oblivion.

Im sorry, I guess I did miss something. I am not trying to be ignorant, oblivous or argumentative. I respect what you say, you are an attorney, I am not.

I have re-read your post several times & I guess I am missing something Yes, I allowed him to impregnate me and I knew he was a jerk...I concede to that. Maybe not my most intelligent move, but I dont think either of us have any regrets. I know for a fact I don't. But, irregardless of that, she is here and she needs to be taken care of. I can do it, have done it and will continue to do it with or without his help.

Are you recommending that I give him 50/50 joint legal (not in question) and physical? That I not hold him accountable for any financial support? I really don't have a problem with him having joint anything, he is her Dad. My only question really is his motivation for wanting it to begin with. Please help me to understand.

 

[Ohiogal]

Im sorry, I guess I did miss something. I am not trying to be ignorant, oblivous or argumentative. I respect what you say, you are an attorney, I am not.

I have re-read your post several times & I guess I am missing something Yes, I allowed him to impregnate me and I knew he was a jerk...I concede to that. Maybe not my most intelligent move, but I dont think either of us have any regrets. I know for a fact I don't. But, irregardless of that, she is here and she needs to be taken care of. I can do it, have done it and will continue to do it with or without his help.

Are you recommending that I give him 50/50 joint legal (not in question) and physical? That I not hold him accountable for any financial support? I really don't have a problem with him having joint anything, he is her Dad. My only question really is his motivation for wanting it to begin with. Please help me to understand.

Why shouldn't he have joint legal and physical custody? Doesn't mean 50/50 time. Agree to both of those with your address being the address for school purposes AND then request the court order child support per the guidelines. The time he can have and that you will agree to with joint custody is standard visitation. Easy peasy. He gets a win. You get a win.

 

[The_Non-Mom]

Joint legal custody means that he will have a say in making decisions regarding the child (school, medical, etc). This doesn't mean that he'll half 50/50 placement or not have to pay child support.

Here is a link to the child support calculator for Kentucky.

Kentucky: Cabinet for Health and Family Services - Child Support Enforcement

 

[starting over]

Why shouldn't he have joint legal and physical custody? Doesn't mean 50/50 time. Agree to both of those with your address being the address for school purposes AND then request the court order child support per the guidelines. The time he can have and that you will agree to with joint custody is standard visitation. Easy peasy. He gets a win. You get a win.

Thank you, I am fine with that recommendation. I always thought that joint physical automatically implied joint physical and a 50/50 time split.... that is where I was getting confused.

Ok, this is going to sound really stupid and dense, but what exactly is Joint Physical custody then? Why does it even matter if it doesn't refer to where the child physically resides? Did that make any sense whatsoever? Im good with the legal custody & decision making, but this one has me scratching my head.

 

[Proserpina]

Thank you, I am fine with that recommendation. I always thought that joint physical automatically implied joint physical and a 50/50 time split.... that is where I was getting confused.

Ok, this is going to sound really stupid and dense, but what exactly is Joint Physical custody then? Why does it even matter if it doesn't refer to where the child physically resides? Did that make any sense whatsoever? Im good with the legal custody & decision making, but this one has me scratching my head.

It's simply a method of saying that the child resides with both parents at least some of the time.

 

[The_Non-Mom]

Joint physical custody doesn't have to be anything close to 50/50. A possible arrangement with joint legal and physical custody could be that Dad has kiddo every other weekend. That would mean he would most likely pay child support.

 

[starting over]

Joint physical custody does not necessarily mean a 50/50 timeshare. Even with a 50/50 timeshare the parent with the higher income still ends up paying some child support. Therefore, if dad makes more money than you then he is wrong that 50/50 means he won't have to pay any child support.QUOTE]

LdiJ, I apologize. You very clearly stated the answer to my question in your post....it just didn't click when I first read it, only after I went back and re-read the entire thread. Thanks for trying though