Is not paying child support reason to try and get parental rights terminated?

[christinev82]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Tennessee

When my ex and I divorced he was ordered by the judge to pay child support (the judge actually jailed him briefly because of it). For a while now he's not paid anything, and when I would ask him or his parents for the monthly check they would either give me a check from THEIR (i.e. his parent's) bank account that would bounce due to insufficient funds (and then ignore all contact with me when I told them it bounced) or just tell me that he doesn't have it (our divorce said he was supposed to go through the child support bureau). I filed a complaint with the child support people and they tried to go after him, only he quit his job when they were going to garnish his wages for back child support. They're supposed to be taking him to court soon, the case worker told me but I don't know a date yet.

My question is, can I use this as grounds to try and get his parental rights terminated so I have full custody of the kids? He's not really involved with the kids, I mean he's never there to pick them up or drop them off and doesn't really involve himself in anything dealing with them (his parents basically raise the kids as his proxy for everything). I'm the one who does most of the work taking care of them. It's been at least like a year and a half since he's paid anything (and probably more, honestly I forget the last time he did) and from what the kids have said it's not that he doesn't have the money (he's buying other things) just he doesn't want to give me the money as we had a pretty messy marriage and divorce.

 

[cbg]

No. Child support is not a ticket to see your child.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Tennessee

When my ex and I divorced he was ordered by the judge to pay child support (the judge actually jailed him briefly because of it). For a while now he's not paid anything, and when I would ask him or his parents for the monthly check they would either give me a check from THEIR (i.e. his parent's) bank account that would bounce due to insufficient funds (and then ignore all contact with me when I told them it bounced) or just tell me that he doesn't have it (our divorce said he was supposed to go through the child support bureau). I filed a complaint with the child support people and they tried to go after him, only he quit his job when they were going to garnish his wages for back child support. They're supposed to be taking him to court soon, the case worker told me but I don't know a date yet.

My question is, can I use this as grounds to try and get his parental rights terminated so I have full custody of the kids? He's not really involved with the kids, I mean he's never there to pick them up or drop them off and doesn't really involve himself in anything dealing with them (his parents basically raise the kids as his proxy for everything). I'm the one who does most of the work taking care of them. It's been at least like a year and a half since he's paid anything (and probably more, honestly I forget the last time he did) and from what the kids have said it's not that he doesn't have the money (he's buying other things) just he doesn't want to give me the money as we had a pretty messy marriage and divorce.

Please keep your related questions confined to one thread, christinev82, to help out the volunteers here. Thanks.

christine's other thread: https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/my-ex-sends-his-parents-visitations-legal-603632.html

 

[christinev82]

So even if he's a deadbeat and doesn't pay I can't petition the court to get his rights removed?

What has me confused is that I found something on the TN website that said under section 36 that:

The person has failed, without good cause or excuse, to make reasonable and consistent payments for the support of the child in accordance with the child support guidelines promulgated by the department pursuant to § 36-5-101;

is a way to get the courts to terminate parental rights?

 

[single317dad]

So even if he's a deadbeat and doesn't pay I can't petition the court to get his rights removed?

No.

What has me confused is that I found something on the TN website that said under section 36 that:

The person has failed, without good cause or excuse, to make reasonable and consistent payments for the support of the child in accordance with the child support guidelines promulgated by the department pursuant to § 36-5-101;

is a way to get the courts to terminate parental rights?

No. You can't just take a snippet of statute and apply it however you see fit. Here's the same text with a little context:

http://www.state.tn.us/tccy/tnchild/36/36-1-113.htm

(9) (A) The parental rights of any person who, at the time of the filing of a petition to terminate the parental rights of such person or, if no such petition is filed, at the time of the filing of a petition to adopt a child, is not the legal parent or guardian of such child or who is described in § 36-1-117(b) or (c) may also be terminated based upon any one (1) or more of the following additional grounds:

(i) The person has failed, without good cause or excuse, to pay a reasonable share of prenatal, natal, and postnatal expenses involving the birth of the child in accordance with the person's financial means promptly upon the person's receipt of notice of the child's impending birth;

(ii) The person has failed, without good cause or excuse, to make reasonable and consistent payments for the support of the child in accordance with the child support guidelines promulgated by the department pursuant to § 36-5-101;

What you want here will not happen. Drop the issue.

 

[christinev82]

So I'm pretty much stuck with him not paying, and hope the child support people can get him for it?

 

[single317dad]

So I'm pretty much stuck with him not paying, and hope the child support people can get him for it?

That's their job. Try to help them as much as you can. Has there been a contempt hearing? How long have you been pursuing back support through the IV-D/CSS office? What has happened in that time?

 

[christinev82]

That's their job. Try to help them as much as you can. Has there been a contempt hearing? How long have you been pursuing back support through the IV-D/CSS office? What has happened in that time?

They are supposed to get some kind of hearing, I haven't heard from them yet. I talked to the child support people in November, and they told me that he quit his job when they were going to be garnishing his wages in January because they had told me I would have a check by then, but he quit his job, and they told me that they're going to have to take him to court over it. That's all I know right now, I'm supposed to hear as soon as they can pin the judge down for a hearing date but it's very hard to get a hold of him

I also had tried to relocate out of state last year, citing that he's not involved with the kids in medical/school and doesn't pay child support at all so I could get better prospects with my out of state boyfriend, but the move was denied because his parents cited that they were here.

 

[single317dad]

They are supposed to get some kind of hearing, I haven't heard from them yet. I talked to the child support people in November, and they told me that he quit his job when they were going to be garnishing his wages in January because they had told me I would have a check by then, but he quit his job, and they told me that they're going to have to take him to court over it. That's all I know right now, I'm supposed to hear as soon as they can pin the judge down for a hearing date but it's very hard to get a hold of him

If they were to the point of garnishing wages, there's already been a hearing. Whether anyone showed up for it is another story. He's been adjudged in arrears and the garnishment ordered to satisfy the support order. A contempt hearing with a purge order is usually pretty effective in these cases, though only temporarily. What you should do is stop making this about being vindictive, and make it about moving the legal process along to get the support you're entitled to.

I also had tried to relocate out of state last year, citing that he's not involved with the kids in medical/school and doesn't pay child support at all so I could get better prospects with my out of state boyfriend, but the move was denied because his parents cited that they were here.

Your move was denied because your reasoning was weak. Jumping state to be with your boyfriend is not a reason to move the kids away from their father.

 

[christinev82]

If they were to the point of garnishing wages, there's already been a hearing. Whether anyone showed up for it is another story. He's been adjudged in arrears and the garnishment ordered to satisfy the support order. A contempt hearing with a purge order is usually pretty effective in these cases, though only temporarily. What you should do is stop making this about being vindictive, and make it about moving the legal process along to get the support you're entitled to.



Your move was denied because your reasoning was weak. Jumping state to be with your boyfriend is not a reason to move the kids away from their father.

Well my argument was that their father wasn't actually involved with their upbringing, while I was involved almost 100% of it (I even had our daughter's teacher testify in that hearing saying that I was the only one interested in schoolwork, he had never even met with her or anything). But anyways that's in the past and is not relevant.

I don't know if there was a hearing, as they didn't inform me of any such thing, they basically just told me they'd look into it, and then a couple of weeks later told me that I would be getting a child support check, and then like two weeks after that told me that he quit his job and they would have to take him to court. I don't know how the law specifically works in that regard, I'm waiting for them to tell me when the court date or whatever is.

 

[stealth2]

I also had tried to relocate out of state last year, citing that he's not involved with the kids in medical/school and doesn't pay child support at all so I could get better prospects with my out of state boyfriend, but the move was denied because his parents cited that they were here.

No, the move was denied because you didn't show how the move would benefit the kids. You b/f doesn't cut it.

 

[christinev82]

No, the move was denied because you didn't show how the move would benefit the kids. You b/f doesn't cut it.

I would have imagined that having somebody actually interested in teh children versus a father who doesn't do anything medical or education related would have been (as grandparents don't have rights in the state in that regard), but anyways it's in the past and he's planning to move here in a couple of months when he finds work.

 

[cbg]

Here's the thing.

Child support is his obligation. If there's court ordered support and he does not pay it, you have recourse.

However, seeing his children is his right. He may exercise that right or not as he chooses. But the court will be very reluctant to sever that right, even if he is not following through on his obligation.

Because it is not just HIS rights in question. It is also the right of the children to have access to the man who supplied 50% of their DNA. He may not be interested in exercising his right to see them today, but that doesn't mean he may not be interested tomorrow, and if that should happen, the court is going to encourage it, not cut it off at the knees because he failed in an obligation.

Rights and obligations are two different things.

 

[LdiJ]

They are supposed to get some kind of hearing, I haven't heard from them yet. I talked to the child support people in November, and they told me that he quit his job when they were going to be garnishing his wages in January because they had told me I would have a check by then, but he quit his job, and they told me that they're going to have to take him to court over it. That's all I know right now, I'm supposed to hear as soon as they can pin the judge down for a hearing date but it's very hard to get a hold of him

I also had tried to relocate out of state last year, citing that he's not involved with the kids in medical/school and doesn't pay child support at all so I could get better prospects with my out of state boyfriend, but the move was denied because his parents cited that they were here.

Huh? His parent's involvement with the children should have had zero bearing on your attempt to move out of state.

I suspect that you haven't been using an attorney and that much of what has happened is a result of that. I suggest that you go get a consult with an attorney now, and take your court orders with you.

 

[christinev82]

Huh? His parent's involvement with the children should have had zero bearing on your attempt to move out of state.

I suspect that you haven't been using an attorney and that much of what has happened is a result of that. I suggest that you go get a consult with an attorney now, and take your court orders with you.

I did have an attorney from the next county over (only one reasonably priced I could find), we actually had to drag it out for months because he failed to respond to two interrogatories and we had to finally subpoena him with the threat of contempt to get him to actually answer them, we had mediation where he refused to compromise (was going to offer him summers and spring/winter break) and finally had a court hearing before the judge. It's a moot point but when we went before the judge, his attorney (local to the county) argued that the children had family here (i.e. grandparents) and that our daughter (who was 7) had said she wanted to stay here rather than move (when she told me she wanted to move). I barely got my words in edgewise including the witnesses to state that dad wasn't involved at all, and pointed out that dad wasn't involved with the kids, it was his grandparents doing everything (basically he only lent his name to legal documents, like contesting the move), taking the kids to school when needed, helping with homework, meeting with doctors, etc. It didn't help and the judge ruled that the move was denied because the children have family here and I was going to move like 13 hours away (his exact words).

Moot point as the appeal date was like 10 days from the judgement (which was months ago now) and I didn't have the money to appeal anyways as it was like $2,000 according to my attorney and it would go back to the same judge as the hearing (we only have one judge in the county) so he wouldn't be likely to reverse his decision if he didn't care to hear what I had to say the first time. Even if I could do it again without it being an appeal of the first ruling, I don't have the money for another attorney and it would still go before the same judge, and nothing would have changed with the circumstances.

Also in a bit of irony he and his parents are now suing the school because the teacher testified against him, but I think they are going to counter-sue him for slander. I don't know as I'm not involved in that but heard it through the grapevine. They are not nice people really, but that's not really relevant to the topic here It is what it is, I was hoping to move but my bf is looking at moving here instead so we can move to a larger city that's within 100 miles, so it doesn't have to go back to court again.